Mr.House wrote...
Eamon does not say that because Ferelden is threaten, you just saved his life and knows that Loghain tried to kill him. Plus he sees the Warden as a tool to put Alistair on the throne so he can controll the crown indirclty, Eamon holds your hand for pratcily the rest of the game.
IanPolaris wrote...
Persephone wrote...
Except that without the treaties, the Knight Commander would toss you out and you'd never even get the opportunity to meet the werewolves.
That's not true either. You status as Warden gives you the right to be there esp in time of blight, and Gregoire aknowledges this. Also if you are a mage, your status as a circle mages gives you a right to be there as well.
-Polaris
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Persephone wrote...
When I lost my mother, I wanted to do nothing. I wanted to curl up in a corner and disappear. I cared about nothing and no one. At first I actually wanted to follow her, screw life. (Back then) Guess that makes me a lazy fool...well, I can live with that.
That was certainly not what I was saying and I apologize if I gave that impression.
If your mother was murdered, and you have evidence implicating someone that could continue to murder peole and you do strictly nothing with it? Yes, then you'd be a lazy fool in my eyes.
Persephone wrote...
Mr.House wrote...
I can, Hawke does it and get's stonewalled from Meredith because Meredith hates my Hawke, Hawke then grumbles bitterly and goes to get a drink.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Persephone wrote...
That's the motive YOU came up with. And we are talking in circles here, no pun intended.
Yes, because I am sure you can imagine a situation in your head that would make it look like Hawke was not a laazy fool.
Good for you, i don't want to play games in my head, I want to play actual games.
When I lost my mother, I wanted to do nothing. I wanted to curl up in a corner and disappear. I cared about nothing and no one. At first I actually wanted to follow her, screw life. (Back then) Guess that makes me a lazy fool...well, I can live with that.
Persephone wrote...
He aknowledges your right once you enforce the treaty, you mean?
Xilizhra wrote...
So, as your Hawke has none of that going for him and simply is a lazy fool in your own mind, stick to him and try to avoid sweeping generalizations to other Hawkes. I suspect the hostility will decrease; I wouldn't even be in here if I didn't feel some blows aimed at my own Hawke.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
And what I'm getting is "All of your Hawkes are that way too."KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Your tone, I suspect, is becoming unnecessarily dismissive.
Perhaps, because what I am getting is this:
"'It's your fault Hawke is that way. "
Yes, because that's what the game is.
I am not here to discuss head canon.
Xilizhra wrote...
So, as your Hawke has none of that going for him and simply is a lazy fool in your own mind, stick to him and try to avoid sweeping generalizations to other Hawkes. I suspect the hostility will decrease; I wouldn't even be in here if I didn't feel some blows aimed at my own Hawke.
IanPolaris wrote...
Persephone wrote...
He aknowledges your right once you enforce the treaty, you mean?
No. He aknowledges your right from the start when you insist on your legal rights as a Grey Warden. He hates that (if you helped Jowan) but he aknowledges it. The treaty has nothing to do with it and isn't binding on the Templars.
-Polaris
Realmzmaster wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Persephone wrote...
Except that without the treaties, the Knight Commander would toss you out and you'd never even get the opportunity to meet the werewolves.
That's not true either. You status as Warden gives you the right to be there esp in time of blight, and Gregoire aknowledges this. Also if you are a mage, your status as a circle mages gives you a right to be there as well.
-Polaris
You have a right to be there, but no way to ask for their help without the treaties. If you save the mages you can ask for their help, but you cannot get the templars help because their main duty from the Chantry is to guard the mages.
If you perform the rite of annulment you can then request the templars help, because there are no mages to guard. But you get no help without the treaties.
That's not the point though, the point is he is only helping you because he wants to use you, yes you can screw him over and outsmart him but only after you have gotten his help and men, and after you have just gained the support of all the lords. What's Eamon going to do? Walk out on you now just beforet he battle and cause another civil war before the Archdemon attacks?KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Mr.House wrote...
Eamon does not say that because Ferelden is threaten, you just saved his life and knows that Loghain tried to kill him. Plus he sees the Warden as a tool to put Alistair on the throne so he can controll the crown indirclty, Eamon holds your hand for pratcily the rest of the game.
And guess what, you can completely out-maneuvre him in the Landsmeet. You can end up using him as a tool and discard him, instead of him using you.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Realmzmaster wrote...
The warden gets a treaty and blunders his way to gather an army. Without said treaty the warden would be unable to get help from elves or dwavres.
Except no one cared about the treaty (2 armies don't even have a treaty) and it's not enforceable by anyone, and the Warden had to help them before. Yes, he acted like an errand boy. But it also provided opportunity to be pro-active. To do something from your own volition.
For instance, playing both Bhelen and Harrowmont. No one tells you to do that. Recruiting the Werewolves. An entirely pro-active choice. Seeking to save the mages when you are told they are all dead, is a choice out of your own volition. Backstabbing Kolgrim...etc
These are things the warden can do from his own volition amnd it involves more than just killing. I do nto recal a single instance of that in DA2, except siding with Petrice, which has a stupid logic to it.
Yes, all Bioware PCs are killing machines. Some however have more choice / options / opportunity to show skills...etc than others.
Persephone wrote...
Much as the police today, the Templars know of where Emeric's investigation went and given that they are the authority in Kirkwall, it is THEIR job to do this, not Hawke's. THEY bungled that up, not the victim's grieving family.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
So, as your Hawke has none of that going for him and simply is a lazy fool in your own mind, stick to him and try to avoid sweeping generalizations to other Hawkes. I suspect the hostility will decrease; I wouldn't even be in here if I didn't feel some blows aimed at my own Hawke.
The game does not allow you to play any other kind of Hawke, except via headcanon, which you yourself said that you think is more important than the game itself.
I don't care about your personal Hawke. I am talking about Hawke as presented in the game.
Persephone wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Persephone wrote...
He aknowledges your right once you enforce the treaty, you mean?
No. He aknowledges your right from the start when you insist on your legal rights as a Grey Warden. He hates that (if you helped Jowan) but he aknowledges it. The treaty has nothing to do with it and isn't binding on the Templars.
-Polaris
Um, no. The Warden cites the ancient treaty and THEN he backs down. Played it only recently.
The game doesn't show enough of Hawke's character to truly establish it, only giving pieces of it (as Varric is only telling the vital parts, by and large), and thus some is necessary, I feel.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
So, as your Hawke has none of that going for him and simply is a lazy fool in your own mind, stick to him and try to avoid sweeping generalizations to other Hawkes. I suspect the hostility will decrease; I wouldn't even be in here if I didn't feel some blows aimed at my own Hawke.
The game does not allow you to play any other kind of Hawke, except via headcanon, which you yourself said that you think is more important than the game itself.
I don't care about your personal Hawke. I am talking about Hawke as presented in the game.
Mr.House wrote...
That's not the point though, the point is he is only helping you because he wants to use you, yes you can screw him over and outsmart him but only after you have gotten his help and men, and after you have just gained the support of all the lords. What's Eamon going to do? Walk out on you now just beforet he battle and cause another civil war before the Archdemon attacks?
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Persephone wrote...
Much as the police today, the Templars know of where Emeric's investigation went and given that they are the authority in Kirkwall, it is THEIR job to do this, not Hawke's. THEY bungled that up, not the victim's grieving family.
Because it's Hawke's job to massacre thugs every night right?
Why didn't she present the evidence to the Templars then? hy didn't we have the option?
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Persephone wrote...
Much as the police today, the Templars know of where Emeric's investigation went and given that they are the authority in Kirkwall, it is THEIR job to do this, not Hawke's. THEY bungled that up, not the victim's grieving family.
Because it's Hawke's job to massacre thugs every night right?
Why didn't she present the evidence to the Templars then? hy didn't we have the option?
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
If your mother was murdered, and you have evidence implicating someone that could continue to murder peole and you do strictly nothing with it? Yes, then you'd be a lazy fool in my eyes.
You never get any evidence of Circle involvement until after Quentin and Leandra are dead. Also, I think the trapdoor was magically invisible.IanPolaris wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Persephone wrote...
Much as the police today, the Templars know of where Emeric's investigation went and given that they are the authority in Kirkwall, it is THEIR job to do this, not Hawke's. THEY bungled that up, not the victim's grieving family.
Because it's Hawke's job to massacre thugs every night right?
Why didn't she present the evidence to the Templars then? hy didn't we have the option?
In addition to what KoP said, let's look at this. You are Lord "Amell" Hawke. You have the Captain of the Guard in your hip-pocket...and you can't get the Guard or the Templars to do an official and thorough investigation (missing a trap door in three years is criminal IMHO) DESPITE having some evidence of circle involvement? Really???
-Polaris
Realmzmaster wrote...
If no one cared about the treaties why did the warden have to get them? If no one cared about the treaties why present them to the elves or the dwarves?
IanPolaris wrote...
Persephone wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Persephone wrote...
He aknowledges your right once you enforce the treaty, you mean?
No. He aknowledges your right from the start when you insist on your legal rights as a Grey Warden. He hates that (if you helped Jowan) but he aknowledges it. The treaty has nothing to do with it and isn't binding on the Templars.
-Polaris
Um, no. The Warden cites the ancient treaty and THEN he backs down. Played it only recently.
Um no. That's only one possible dialog path. You don't have to invoke the treaty to get into the tower, not even if you helped Jowan. It's the obvious "in" but not the only one. You do have to invoke it when you talk with the FIrst enchanter but that's sort of obvious I think.
-Polaris
Realmzmaster wrote...
If no one cared about the treaties why did the warden have to get them? If no one cared about the treaties why present them to the elves or the dwarves?
Cutlass Jack wrote...
Then by that logic, the Cousland warden is even a lazier fool by leaving his mother to die groveling at the feet of Arl Howe when he/she could have done something about it.
Xilizhra wrote...
You never get any evidence of Circle involvement until after Quentin and Leandra are dead. Also, I think the trapdoor was magically invisible.
Retour en haut
