551 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...

That's the motive YOU came up with. And we are talking in circles here, no pun intended.

Yes, because I am sure you can imagine a situation in your head that would make it look like Hawke was not a laazy fool.

Good for you, i don't want to play games in my head, I want to play actual games.

I can, Hawke does it and get's stonewalled from Meredith because Meredith hates my Hawke, Hawke then grumbles bitterly and goes to get a drink.

When I lost my mother, I wanted to do nothing. I wanted to curl up in a corner and disappear. I cared about nothing and no one. At first I actually wanted to follow her, screw life. (Back then) Guess that makes me a lazy fool...well, I can live with that.

Ha, my Hawke went to the tavern got sloshed then went on a killing spree n eliminated the gangs n their main boss's lol.  Takin their hurt n pain out on the gangs sure felt good lol.
One of my Hawke's did this n then went seeking solace from Isy but she was gallavantin around somewhere so ended up at Merrill's n well um one thing lead to another n Hawke found comfort in Merrill's arms lol. 

Love how you can rp it.  It's not handed to you on a silver platter, you actually got to use your imagination n that's one of the things I love about DA2.

That's exactly how I do it. Did the same in DAO, given how blank the Warden comes across!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
She presents her version to that Templar girl whose name I forget.... And after that she talks to Aveline whose city guard is also taking care of it.

We never give them the evidence.

[Xilizhra]

IanPolaris wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You never get any evidence of Circle involvement until after Quentin and Leandra are dead. Also, I think the trapdoor was magically invisible.

It takes three years for circle mages and Templars with anti-magic abilities to find an invisible trap door?

Really?

-Polaris

The Circle would never be allowed to assist in the investigation and the templars apparently didn't care enough to fire off Cleanse at every square inch of the foundry.

[IanPolaris]

Persephone wrote...

It's obvious in both cases. No treaties, no nada. That's why Duncan wanted them, you know?

That's only true with Orzammar (otherwise shut to non-dwarves due to the interregnum) and the Dalish (and only if the Warden is not Dalish).  Otherwise you don't actually need the treaties.

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You never get any evidence of Circle involvement until after Quentin and Leandra are dead. Also, I think the trapdoor was magically invisible.

It takes three years for circle mages and Templars with anti-magic abilities to find an invisible trap door?

Really?

-Polaris

Considering how stupid everyone is, are you really surprised?

[alex90c]

Gawd, I go to eat dinner and the thread advances like 4 pages.

ARGHHHHH

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If I wanted to enjoy my imagiantion, I would not pay 60$ to enjoy it.

Cutlass Jack wrote...
Then by that logic, the Cousland warden is even a lazier fool by leaving his mother to die groveling at the feet of Arl Howe when he/she could have done something about it.

Not the same, Eleanor wanted this. It's her choice to buy us some time.

I have said that the situation was not well portrayed (it would be better if she was injured as well). But it's different.

Whether she wants it or not, why can I not ACT on my conviction that she is wrong and has a duty to her living kids? Bryce bloody agrees that she shouldn't do it. Same thing, really. I must "accept" it.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
She presents her version to that Templar girl whose name I forget.... And after that she talks to Aveline whose city guard is also taking care of it.

We never give them the evidence.

Aveline and her guards WENT there. You can bloody accuse her of being the one to blame for it!

[IanPolaris]

Xilizhra wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You never get any evidence of Circle involvement until after Quentin and Leandra are dead. Also, I think the trapdoor was magically invisible.

It takes three years for circle mages and Templars with anti-magic abilities to find an invisible trap door?

Really?

-Polaris

The Circle would never be allowed to assist in the investigation and the templars apparently didn't care enough to fire off Cleanse at every square inch of the foundry.

The circle would never be allowed to assist?  Who says?  I admit that in Meredith's case, she might be highly reluctant, but there is all sorts of precedent.  In Act I, a Mage Hawke can "BS" his way out of a confrantation with Templars by pretending to be such a mage (i.e. a mage assisting a Templar investigation).

As for the latter, there is a missing circle mage and very likely a missing/dangerous apostate.  In THREE YEARS the Templars most certainly should have cleansed the entire foundry...and Hawke should have had the political pull to demand it (esp since the investitagation was being pushed by a Templar).

-Polaris

[Mr.House]

If Hawke never gave a report then how does Cullen, Meredith and Bran know that Leandra died, hmm?

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You never get any evidence of Circle involvement until after Quentin and Leandra are dead. Also, I think the trapdoor was magically invisible.

It takes three years for circle mages and Templars with anti-magic abilities to find an invisible trap door?

Really?

-Polaris

Considering how stupid everyone is, are you really surprised?

Frankly, no.

-Polaris

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You never get any evidence of Circle involvement until after Quentin and Leandra are dead. Also, I think the trapdoor was magically invisible.

It takes three years for circle mages and Templars with anti-magic abilities to find an invisible trap door?

Really?

-Polaris

Considering how stupid everyone is, are you really surprised?

This condescending attitude makes me wonder just why you are still discussing this, given how you dismiss everything people point out as meaningless. Disagree by all means, but please drop the generalizations, it comes across as arrogant. (Which I know is not your intention)

[IanPolaris]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
She presents her version to that Templar girl whose name I forget.... And after that she talks to Aveline whose city guard is also taking care of it.

We never give them the evidence.

Aveline and her guards WENT there. You can bloody accuse her of being the one to blame for it!

They went there once, and considering what Hawke finds when he goes there unannounced, I have to conclude Emric was right.  The Guards were horribly incompetant (or paid off).

-Polaris

[Persephone]

Mr.House wrote...

If Hawke never gave a report then how does Cullen, Meredith and Bran know that Leandra died, hmm?

And HOW she died? (Meredith....grrrrrrr!)

But I guess they used a crystal ball, given Hawke's inability to do anything but kill. *Snerks*

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...

Whether she wants it or not, why can I not ACT on my conviction that she is wrong and has a duty to her living kids? Bryce bloody agrees that she shouldn't do it. Same thing, really. I must "accept" it.

Bryce agrees at the end.

Yes you must accept it. The difference is, she made a choice, she wants to buy you time to escape and Duncan doesn't want to waste his time. There is a logical reason behind it.
Hawke has evidence that he does absolutely nothing with, for no reason.

The latter looks more like an idiot than the former.

As for Aveline being so incompetent as an excuse fo Hawke's laziness. The guards do not see the evidence, we have it with us. why can't I slam it on Aveline's desk and tell her to do her job?

The diference is, I must accept that my Hawke is as inactive as a rock and doesn't seem to give a damn about who is behind his mother's murder.

[Xilizhra]

The circle would never be allowed to assist? Who says? I admit that in Meredith's case, she might be highly reluctant, but there is all sorts of precedent. In Act I, a Mage Hawke can "BS" his way out of a confrantation with Templars by pretending to be such a mage (i.e. a mage assisting a Templar investigation).

From Starkhaven, yes. This is Kirkwall, where Meredith reigns supreme.

As for the latter, there is a missing circle mage and very likely a missing/dangerous apostate. In THREE YEARS the Templars most certainly should have cleansed the entire foundry...and Hawke should have had the political pull to demand it (esp since the investitagation was being pushed by a Templar).

There's no real evidence for there being a a missing/dangerous apostate. All you have is a sack of remains and a guy who looks like he might be wearing a gray robe. The Gallows apparently hasn't reported anyone missing, and Starkhaven hasn't sent word like they did with Decimus' group; mages don't just go missing without people noticing. Possibly they were a hedge mage or something, but that seems somewhat less likely than Hawke just not getting a good look at whomever it was who ran.

[Persephone]

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
She presents her version to that Templar girl whose name I forget.... And after that she talks to Aveline whose city guard is also taking care of it.

We never give them the evidence.

Aveline and her guards WENT there. You can bloody accuse her of being the one to blame for it!

They went there once, and considering what Hawke finds when he goes there unannounced, I have to conclude Emric was right.  The Guards were horribly incompetant (or paid off).

-Polaris

TWICE. Act I and after Leandra died.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Mr.House wrote...

If Hawke never gave a report then how does Cullen, Meredith and Bran know that Leandra died, hmm?

Do they know about the evidence implicating someone in the Circle?

[Realmzmaster]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
If no one cared about the treaties why did the warden have to get them? If no one cared about the treaties why present them to the elves or the dwarves?

Legitimacy. Same as presenting yourself as the protector of the law, or uphold the constitution, while in reality, it's ****** for tat. It's protocol and not that much else.

Treaties are irrelevent if they cannot be enforced. Who is going to enforce it?

Legitimacy? A treaty that cannot be enforced has no legitimacy. The treaty is useful in entrance to  the elves and dwarves. It only use was in getting pass the guards.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Realmzmaster wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
If no one cared about the treaties why did the warden have to get them? If no one cared about the treaties why present them to the elves or the dwarves?

Legitimacy. Same as presenting yourself as the protector of the law, or uphold the constitution, while in reality, it's ****** for tat. It's protocol and not that much else.

Treaties are irrelevent if they cannot be enforced. Who is going to enforce it?

Legitimacy? A treaty that cannot be enforced has no legitimacy. The treaty is useful in entrance to  the elves and dwarves. It only use was in getting pass the guards.

No, a treaty that cannot be enforced has no legality. It can still have legitimacy.

[Mr.House]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If Hawke never gave a report then how does Cullen, Meredith and Bran know that Leandra died, hmm?

Do they know about the evidence implicating someone in the Circle?

It's never stated, but they know about the death, which means a report was given.

[Elhanan]

Before this thread is locked, I rather enjoy seeing how Legacy and some of the more powerful demons in the game help make Kirkwall a hotbed of activity for the Fade. What some perceive as stupidity and ignorance may actually be concealment influenced by these creatures and the connention to the Veil.

Now back to your Spoilers....

[IanPolaris]

Realmzmaster wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
If no one cared about the treaties why did the warden have to get them? If no one cared about the treaties why present them to the elves or the dwarves?

Legitimacy. Same as presenting yourself as the protector of the law, or uphold the constitution, while in reality, it's ****** for tat. It's protocol and not that much else.

Treaties are irrelevent if they cannot be enforced. Who is going to enforce it?

Legitimacy? A treaty that cannot be enforced has no legitimacy. The treaty is useful in entrance to  the elves and dwarves. It only use was in getting pass the guards.

That isn't always true.  The Dwarves for example take enormous stock in the appearence of honor, and you had two nearly equal political factions vying for the throne.  In such a case the "appearence of legitemacy" is crucial (and the fact the wardens can't currently enforce it makes it all the better to both factions in Orzammar).

Likewise the Dalish are presented with having a somewhat alien but very pricklish sense of honor, and as such the treaties mean something to them as well.

My point is you can't make a blanket statement like that without considering the cultures in question.

-Polaris

Edit:  Ninjaed by KOP who said it much better and more succintly than I did!

Modifié par IanPolaris, 17 août 2011 - 06:40 .

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The diference is, I must accept that my Hawke is as inactive as a rock and doesn't seem to give a damn about who is behind his mother's murder.

As much as I no longer give a damn about this argument, I suppose. After being accused of talking out of my ***, having my RP style, intelligence as well as my characters belittled and condescended to ad nauseam, I'm at the end of my rope. You know, sometimes giving an inch goes a long way. It does not render your overall opinion invalid.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Mr.House wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If Hawke never gave a report then how does Cullen, Meredith and Bran know that Leandra died, hmm?

Do they know about the evidence implicating someone in the Circle?

It's never stated, but they know about the death, which means a report was given.

Which is irrelevent to what I am saying. Fact is, we were never presented with the option to act on the evidence we have found, either personally or tell someone about it.

So I have to headcanon that Hawke gave the evidence to someone, and even Meredith in her paranoia, did nothing with it. So it's either Hawke who is a lazy imbecile, or everyone else is.