harkness72 wrote...
Complain all you want, just don't be hypocrite by claiming to have moved on while arguing ****** for tat with others who may not have.
Modifié par Elhanan, 16 août 2011 - 04:23 .
Prince_12 wrote...
Ramza_1 wrote...
Well done. A brick is a brick. A frog is a frog. A phone is a phone. Your contribution is appreciated, but why don't you sit quietly and let the adults with the slightly more developed reasoning ability have their turn?
I wish adults would stop making old threads and bringing old topics up again and again...
(says the old man lol)
The arrogance is exquisite.Elhanan wrote...
harkness72 wrote...
Complain all you want, just don't be hypocrite by claiming to have moved on while arguing ****** for tat with others who may not have.
I haved moved on; currently in 4th replay, with 300+ hrs invested in game total. Just like to offer another POV for those that like whipping mares that are corpsified.
But pls go on; you have the right to be wrong if you wish.
This is a good point. I liked that Hawke had a personality and had a life. I just don't think that equated well in game beyond relationship with companions or minor characters. The Warden only had the personality I gave him, unvoiced and looking like a manequin half the time, but he got to do something about the problems at hand. DA:O is fairly linear itself, I'm not trying to kid myself, but the game did a better job of making my choices feel like they meant something. DA2 did not accomplish that.Xilizhra wrote...
Meh. Hawke may not have a lot of power to change things on a grand scale, but she sure felt to me a lot more like a person than my Warden, whom I sincerely believe was hit hard and negatively by the lack of a voice and general tone. Also, Hawke seems to have an actual normal-ish life, as do her companions, as opposed to the always adventuring Warden. I find it slightly more interesting in some ways.
Vormaerin wrote...
Why do people act like their choices matter in DAO, when they clearly don't? No matter which way you solve the demon of redcliffe issue, you are still buddy buddy with the Arl and you still go to the completely meaningless Landsmeet. Where, just in case you hadn't realized it yet, you learn that not one thing you've done so far to build (or not build) a coalition against Loghain means squat. All that matters is if you can beat him in a duel.
Sure, you can decide which of three ways to solve the werewolf-elf thing, but it doesn't mean anything except in your imagination. Just like the solution to the Feynriel situation. There are more decisions in DA2 that change which quests you can do or what subsequent events happen than there are in DAO.
Frankly, the Warden is the more irrelevant character. He has no personal impact on anything, as you can easily see by how it doesn't matter one jot whether the character is a ghetto raised elf or a child of one of the lords of Ferelden. Frankly, the warden would be utterly irrelevant except as a thug if Alistair wasn't such a wishy washy, spineless little git.
At least with Hawke, you don't feel like your companions are more important to the plot than you are (except maybe Anders, but then he's a villain).
At least with Hawke, you don't feel like your companions are more important to the plot than you are (except maybe Anders, but then he's a villain).
alex90c wrote...
At least with Hawke, you don't feel like your companions are more important to the plot than you are (except maybe Anders, but then he's a villain).
LOL.
Isabela brought the Qunari over. Anders did ... his thing.
Hawke did ...
...well slashed his way through gazillions of faceless mooks which didn't even change anything.
PinkShoes wrote...
. The only reason it takes you forever to take em down is cause that damn forcefield. Oh wow so scary!
...Also, do you really need dispel magic? heh, it seems pretty damn useless.
Ramza_1 wrote...
I think one of the reasons DA2 is less enjoyable is that Hawke is powerless. Many people have made the point already that nothing he does matters. In act 3, for example, you can choose to side with the mages or the templars, but it makes zero difference in terms of gameplay or results to the world. You still fight bajillions of blood mages demons, Orsino still somehow becomes the Harvester from the DAO golems dlc, and you still fight meredith.
The other reason Hawke feels powerless is because of the bloated combat. After killing the 1000th faceless bandit, its more like mowing the lawn than overcoming powerful and worthy foes.
Also, I noticed that in DAO all the human enemies used the same ruleset as you. Enemy mages used the same spells, had reasonable hp for a pc mage, and the challenge was in their AI. Emissaries, for example, were really scary when they would use fireball on your clumped up group. The enemies felt like a threat, but also could be delt with because the rules they functioned by were the same as yours.
In DA2 it feels more gamey, less like your beating a foe and more like overcoming a silly mechanic of the game because the enemies play by different rules than you; the bosses are ridiculous hp sponges that sit there and wave their swords around generating some weird aura while you stab them in the face for 30 minutes. The mages sit there with their hp sponges and cast ineffective charging spells rather than just using fireball like you do. Also everyone is a paratrooper.
Furthermore, almost every foe you kill in DA2 is characterized by some kind of extreme. They are all completely fascist templars, insane blood mages, greed-possessed thugs, and all are one-dimensional and unmemorable. There are no truly great adversaries with complex motivations. I swear every mage is whiny or insane, and all sound victimized. If you play through with a sarcastic Hawke overtone, you will notice that there are MANY lines where all hawke does is say "your insane" or "great, another crazy" or "why is everyone I meet crazy". The reason this is so is because there is basically nothing else appropriate for hawke to say.
You don't feel powerful unless you use skill and wit to overcome worthy foes.
There ARE NO worthy villains in DA2. Mages act like wimps or are insane. Even end game bosses, like Orsino and Meredith, are just one dimensional crazies. Orsino would have been a much more interesting boss fight if he had just behaved how an archmage should- by using every spell in the damned game intelligently. Please see the end fight against Irenicus in BG2 for an example. I felt badass after beating irenicus.
Modifié par Giubba1985, 16 août 2011 - 06:52 .
harkness72 wrote...
The arrogance is exquisite.
Actually I have played the game, five times, to get the two (count em') different endings. Despite claiming you were trying to be humorous, the final sentence of the last post is filled with ingnorance and arrogance. How do you know what I have and haven't played?Elhanan wrote...
harkness72 wrote...
The arrogance is exquisite.
Thanks, but again some seem to misperceive the message: Humor; not arrogance. But seeing as some are more involved with the latter rather than that of the former, such mistakes are understandable.
DA2 is a fine game; the OP has a different opinion. Play the game to form your own.
Modifié par harkness72, 16 août 2011 - 09:09 .
Perception is everything. To point out your example of Redcliff, there a bunch of different ways to handle that quest. Kill the boy, Get the mages and enter the Fade, Use Blood Magic by killing the arlessa to enter the Fade, and once you're in the Fade you can deal with the demon or kill it. In the end there are reprocusions to your actions. And that's just one quest. Name one quest in DA2 that had that many options on how to complete it.Vormaerin wrote...
Why do people act like their choices matter in DAO, when they clearly don't? No matter which way you solve the demon of redcliffe issue, you are still buddy buddy with the Arl and you still go to the completely meaningless Landsmeet. Where, just in case you hadn't realized it yet, you learn that not one thing you've done so far to build (or not build) a coalition against Loghain means squat. All that matters is if you can beat him in a duel.
Sure, you can decide which of three ways to solve the werewolf-elf thing, but it doesn't mean anything except in your imagination. Just like the solution to the Feynriel situation. There are more decisions in DA2 that change which quests you can do or what subsequent events happen than there are in DAO.
The Warden is more irrelevant? The same guy/gal who gathered an army (of the player's chosing no less) to fight the Blight and either sacrifieced themselves or made a deal to create an old god baby? Yeah totally irrelevant...Frankly, the Warden is the more irrelevant character. He has no personal impact on anything, as you can easily see by how it doesn't matter one jot whether the character is a ghetto raised elf or a child of one of the lords of Ferelden. Frankly, the warden would be utterly irrelevant except as a thug if Alistair wasn't such a wishy washy, spineless little git.
At least with Hawke, you don't feel like your companions are more important to the plot than you are (except maybe Anders, but then he's a villain).
Xilizhra wrote...
I think the lesson learned here is that advertising is simply advertising. The purpose is to make you buy the game, it's not necessarily trustworthy ever.
TheAwesomologist wrote...
The Warden is more irrelevant? The same guy/gal who gathered an army (of the player's chosing no less) to fight the Blight and either sacrifieced themselves or made a deal to create an old god baby? Yeah totally irrelevant...
If Hawke never shows up in Kirkwall guess what? Anders still starts a war. .... If you want to give Hawke credit for anything you can blame Hawke for allowing Flemeth to survive...... Hawke is maybe the 5th or 6th most important person in DA2.
Modifié par Aradace, 16 août 2011 - 06:23 .
Lestatman wrote...
A good example of this and I am aware this is a no spoiler section is that no matter how powerful Hawke is he/she can't always save the day like some superhero. There is a specific storyline near the end of Act 2 which demonstrates this very well.
People read what they want I guess. Not sure where I'm contradicting myself. I enjoyed Hawke the character who had a voice and romanced the dalish elf. I relished for hours the adventures my Warden had. It's less about the actual character and more about what the game and it's story let me accomplish. With Hawke I felt ineffective and as though my actions didn't matter. With the Warden I felt like I mattered.Aradace wrote...
TheAwesomologist wrote...
The Warden is more irrelevant? The same guy/gal who gathered an army (of the player's chosing no less) to fight the Blight and either sacrifieced themselves or made a deal to create an old god baby? Yeah totally irrelevant...
If Hawke never shows up in Kirkwall guess what? Anders still starts a war. .... If you want to give Hawke credit for anything you can blame Hawke for allowing Flemeth to survive...... Hawke is maybe the 5th or 6th most important person in DA2.
And thank you for proving the point in one of my earlier posts. You know, the "I love my warden and Hawke sucks" part
Edit: Actually, looking at one of your other posts, you're actually more or less contradicting yourself right here.
Modifié par TheAwesomologist, 16 août 2011 - 06:29 .
TheAwesomologist wrote...
People read what they want I guess. Not sure where I'm contradicting myself. I enjoyed Hawke the character who had a voice and romanced the dalish elf. I relished for hours the adventures my Warden had. It's less about the actual character and more about what the game and it's story let me accomplish. With Hawke I felt ineffective and as though my actions didn't matter. With the Warden I felt like I mattered.Aradace wrote...
TheAwesomologist wrote...
The Warden is more irrelevant? The same guy/gal who gathered an army (of the player's chosing no less) to fight the Blight and either sacrifieced themselves or made a deal to create an old god baby? Yeah totally irrelevant...
If Hawke never shows up in Kirkwall guess what? Anders still starts a war. .... If you want to give Hawke credit for anything you can blame Hawke for allowing Flemeth to survive...... Hawke is maybe the 5th or 6th most important person in DA2.
And thank you for proving the point in one of my earlier posts. You know, the "I love my warden and Hawke sucks" part
Edit: Actually, looking at one of your other posts, you're actually more or less contradicting yourself right here.
I would have enjoyed Hawke more if he were given a better story to play along with and experience. How hard is that to understand?
EDIT: Also you're welcome that I some how proved some point of yours that I never bothered to read? You can pat yourself on the back now. There. Feel better about yourself?
whykikyouwhy wrote...
@TheAwesomologist - I think Flemeth would have "survived" regardless. Hawke's errand, I suspect, was to set certain things in motion and maybe to show that Hawke could keep her end of the bargain - who knows what might have happened had Hawke not gone to Sundermount. Maybe she would have been barbequed along with some darkspawn (no one need cheer at that idea).
I think what may be part of the issue for a lot of players is perception and expectation. Some people expected an epic rise to power, but the rise to power was literal (refugee to noble to champion). Some people may have expected Hawke to change the world, but changes did occur to varying degrees and not all of them have manifested themselves in the game thus far.
I'm not saying that no one had a right to be disappointed or upset. I'm not saying one person's perception of what should have happened is better or more valid than anyone else's. But I think we can agree that we, as players, have approached the game from slightly different angles and we'll have our praise or our complaints (or both).
Personally, I felt that Hawke was a strong figure in the microcosm that was Kirkwall, just as the Warden was a strong figure in Fereldan. Different degrees, yes, and different plot arcs yet to be revealed/unveiled. I guess I just want to see how it all pans out.
Well yes, if you played DA:O the Warden was a mannequin in that his lips never moved, he had no voice (outside of opening chests and battle cries). I liked that Hawke is a fully voiced protagonist. Thats a good thing about DA2.Aradace wrote...
You forgot the part where you called the warden a mannequin. ( I agree with that sentiment but that's currently not the point). Then you go on to say in the next post and imply that a mannequin is somehow more important than Hawke.
Modifié par TheAwesomologist, 16 août 2011 - 06:44 .
Aradace wrote...
Lestatman wrote...
A good example of this and I am aware this is a no spoiler section is that no matter how powerful Hawke is he/she can't always save the day like some superhero. There is a specific storyline near the end of Act 2 which demonstrates this very well.
And putting the warden in that exact scenario, it'd play out the exact same way as it does for Hawke.
Lestatman wrote...
Aradace wrote...
Lestatman wrote...
A good example of this and I am aware this is a no spoiler section is that no matter how powerful Hawke is he/she can't always save the day like some superhero. There is a specific storyline near the end of Act 2 which demonstrates this very well.
And putting the warden in that exact scenario, it'd play out the exact same way as it does for Hawke.
You might be right but I get the feeling that if the Warden had come up against the quest which involves the White Lily we might and I stress might have been given a choice as to how this quest line would have ended rather than they way it ended for Hawke but you could also be right it's just one of those things we could speculate.
TheAwesomologist wrote...
Put it this way: The Warden is a glazed doughnut. Kinda staid but still sweet and you'll likely eat it. Hawke is a moldy jelly doughnut, but at least he has sprinkles on top.
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