286 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Overall physical fitness and build come into play. Even if males end up only 1% stronger, 1% faster, 1% sturdier, etc... I'd still want that 1% on my side.

But you must agree that Marion Jones was one of the absolute fastest human beings on earth at the time she was breaking world sprint records.  So she must have been at least 1% faster than many of the special forces operators available at the time.  Explain to me why you think she specifically shouldn't have been allowed to join the SF?

Weren't you reading? The above. It's the overall package.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Also, if anyone can join the Special Forces, then they aren't special anymore. The regular army is for average and above-average people. Elite forces are for the exceptional.

I'm not saying anyone can join.  Anyone who can pass the selection criteria should be able to join.  Disqualifying people because they aren't fast or strong or smart or mentally strong enough is one thing.  Disqualifying them because they have tits is I'm sure not what you're proposing so I'm trying to work out what the point you're trying to make is?

When I'm saying that if you truly keep the criteria high enough, then I dont' belive any woman would ever make it.
Recall that we ARE talking about the elite of the elite.
If you look at Delta, the guys who try for it are practicly all from other special forces. 9 out of 10 fail. Those criteria are insane. Even if a woman could be some miracle keep up, she would be straining her body so much that she would end up with a permanent back injury. Just not worth it.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Also, the SA has a lot more population to draw recruits from, now don't they?

I'm sure they have proportionately greater commitments too.

It evens out. Besides, there'a always the regular military and the lesser special forces.

[pf17456]

I think it would be great if the female Shepard responded differently than the male Shepard. I'd like to see femshep move more like a woman than a man or cyborg. Femshep trying to punch out the Shadow Broker did seem to me to be a little hard to believe. A leg sweep or throw would have been more plausable. Kind of like Karate vs Judo where physical strength would be used by maleshep and flexibility and using an opponent's strength against them would be femshep's tactic. The effort though to accomplish this I think would require BW to animate the game twice which would delay it's release date. Speaking for myself I'm looking forward to next March accepting that my ability to suspend disbelief may be tested.

[Destroy Raiden_]

They only would've had to split the animations for that moment when shep rushes in on the SB fshep could've done Judo or Thai boxing and Mshep just as we saw. Both could keep dodging and shooting outside of that brief hand to hand conflict.

[SandTrout]

This thread is still going? It was bad to begin with, and it still is bad.

[Skalman91]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Sure, but only if Sheploo gets bigger hitboxes as well.

This argument rings true.
I support it.

[Jeth Prime]

javierabegazo wrote...

TheWarofArt wrote...

It doesn't matter which gender "tends to be more aggressive" or which "has a higher potential to grow larger muscles."
COMMANDER SHEPARD matters. It's not like femshep even exists at the same time as male Shepard. She is Commander Shepard. Shepard can perform a task that requires physical force. Female Shepard can perform the same task that requires physical force. In THIS case gender should not matter.

Exactly.


The female Commander Shepard is NOT a female who happens to be a soldier.

She is a Soldier who happens to be a woman.

That was said verbatim by BioWare.

Better yet, a Shepard who happens to be female.

[Jeth Prime]

Reptillius wrote...

Jeth Prime wrote...

Reptillius wrote...

Your argueing a smaller lighter frame vs. a bigger heavier one...  Male vs. female aside (even if part of the argument here revolves around females having smaller lighter frames)...  My point remains valid.

I'm not arguing anything. The game is what it is. They're equal, or at least close to it.

However; logicaly, if both of them have the same training, and what not, the one with more muscle mass should be able to do more, with that training. Right or wrong?

no. Not necessarily.  Not only can I point to my above example. to illustrate that they do not necessarily become more capable for increased size.

But I can also point to something more complicated and over dramatized.  That of Martial Arts...

In Martial Arts when you have two people of equal training and equal skill. It is not usually the one with more mass that wins the confrontation despite what various sources want to claim. It is the one that best mixes multiple factors of their body.   The one that has the best mix of Agility, Strength, Stamina, and Mental acuity is the one that the contest favors.    This is actually true for many forms of close combat.

Incidently it is also why various martial arts promote emotional and physical control over oneself and peace of mind.

I agree. But in this case, we're talking about Sheploo and Femshep, who are the same in nearly every way.... Honestly, I don't really even care. Something keeps drawing mre bacck here, and I'n not sure what.

[Ulicus]

Shepard is such a badass in her female incarnation because she can do everything in exactly the same way as her male incarnation.

[Jeth Prime]

Ulicus wrote...

Shepard is such a badass in her female incarnation because she can do everything in exactly the same way as her male incarnation.

Being exactly like a man, makes her badass? Interesting....

[1136342t54_]

Jeth Prime wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Shepard is such a badass in her female incarnation because she can do everything in exactly the same way as her male incarnation.

Being exactly like a man, makes her badass? Interesting....

Male Shepard isn't a man. Man doesn't necessarily describe the awesomeness of Male Shepard you foolish fool. Go back in the corner and cry!

[GuardianAngel470]

Skalman91 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Sure, but only if Sheploo gets bigger hitboxes as well.

This argument rings true.
I support it.

Me too. I agree with what the OP is trying to say, not what most people are making it seem like he's saying. I would love to see certain tradeoffs for using maleshep vs femshep other than the odd pronoun here and there or the different (of same) love interests.

Larger hitbox for male Shepard and more health, more brute force. smaller hitbox for femshep, lower health, judo.

It would be cool no doubt, but I also know it probably isn't feasible.

[GuardianAngel470]

Ulicus wrote...

Shepard is such a badass in her female incarnation because she can do everything in exactly the same way as her male incarnation.

Including sitting like a man, even while wearing a dress. Darn that is so badass!

[1136342t54_]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Me too. I agree with what the OP is trying to say, not what most people are making it seem like he's saying. I would love to see certain tradeoffs for using maleshep vs femshep other than the odd pronoun here and there or the different (of same) love interests.

Larger hitbox for male Shepard and more health, more brute force. smaller hitbox for femshep, lower health, judo.

It would be cool no doubt, but I also know it probably isn't feasible.

That would make little sense.

[Ulicus]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Shepard is such a badass in her female incarnation because she can do everything in exactly the same way as her male incarnation.

Including sitting like a man, even while wearing a dress. Darn that is so badass!

That has nothing to do with the "physcialy [sic] demanding scenes".

[Jeth Prime]

1136342t54 wrote...

Jeth Prime wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Shepard is such a badass in her female incarnation because she can do everything in exactly the same way as her male incarnation.

Being exactly like a man, makes her badass? Interesting....

Male Shepard isn't a man. Man doesn't necessarily describe the awesomeness of Male Shepard you foolish fool. Go back in the corner and cry!

[jeweledleah]

not sure if its been said, don't feel like reading through all of 11 pages, but I look it it as a reach vs flexibility issue. remember that story of Garrus's? he and that female scout overall were evenly matched. neither of them could be the other. but even according to his account, he had reach... but she had the flexibility. maleshep is taller and has more muscle mass. femshep is shorter, more wiry. both can accomplish the same exact thing, but realistically speaking they wouldn't use exactly the same fighting moves, etc.

however, I have resigned myself to the fact that unique animations would be too expensive and too work intensive/time consuming to implement, so I'll take unique rigs that prevent clipping and occasional difference in posture, and more time spent on dialogue etc.

[cactusberry]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Skalman91 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Sure, but only if Sheploo gets bigger hitboxes as well.

This argument rings true.
I support it.

Me too. I agree with what the OP is trying to say, not what most people are making it seem like he's saying. I would love to see certain tradeoffs for using maleshep vs femshep other than the odd pronoun here and there or the different (of same) love interests.

Larger hitbox for male Shepard and more health, more brute force. smaller hitbox for femshep, lower health, judo.

It would be cool no doubt, but I also know it probably isn't feasible.

Right. Reward one gender? FemShep wouldn't get any perks at all over Sheploo, but Sheploo gets a ton over FemShep? <_<

[Seboist]

Femshep just needs more muscle mass. It's freaking absurd that male characters like Jacob are ripped but femshep looks like her legs would snap like twigs from carrying that gear and her hand would shatter upon trying to punch someone.

[Psychoeva02]

If you pay attention to the dialog in ME1, all alliance marines are required to go under cybernetic enhancement to become one, natural strength male or female is insignificant on the 22nd century battlefield. And on the animation thing, marines of both genders are most likely trained to respond in the same manner in combat.

[MysteryNotes]

Sunnie22 wrote...



Actually, I have. I find it just as ridiculous now as I have in the past similar threads. Just because you think Males are bigger and stronger doesn't mean a demure female isn't strong enough or smart enough to accomplish the same things. Yes, muscle mass is one thing, but physical size =/= equal stronger.  I am rather thin IRL, but I can lay out a 275 man any day of the week, no problem.  Like I noted, this subject has been done before, and they all end up locked. 

He's not saying femshep can't do that..he's just saying they should have a different animation/way of doing it that makes it seem more realistic.

[KingDan97]

Don't mind me, just checking in...

[Comsky159]

Ever heard of suspension of disbelief?

Honestly male Shepard has done so many physically impossible things (e.g. arrival dlc two batarians in full armor and helmet killed with two bare-fisted wrestling punches) that this debate is void. If you can accept a human can beat up a yahg, you can accept that a human female can beat up a yahg. Period.

Modifié par Comsky159, 18 août 2011 - 06:57 .

[CaptainZaysh]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

When I'm saying that if you truly keep the criteria high enough, then I dont' belive any woman would ever make it.
Recall that we ARE talking about the elite of the elite.
If you look at Delta, the guys who try for it are practicly all from other special forces. 9 out of 10 fail. Those criteria are insane. Even if a woman could be some miracle keep up, she would be straining her body so much that she would end up with a permanent back injury. Just not worth it.

Dude.  If you really think Marion Frickin' Jones is not of a high enough fitness standard to enter SF training then you have some very fantastic ideas about special forces selection.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheDarkRats wrote...

Right. Reward one gender? FemShep wouldn't get any perks at all over Sheploo, but Sheploo gets a ton over FemShep? <_<

I don't think he was looking at it from the reward/punishment angle.
Technicly it's neither.  Or do you hate God because you think he punishes females over males?

Atlough in gamepaly balance terms  - you do have a point. Then again, I never was concenred with that kind of balance.

[HeavenStar]

Brand New wrote...

IMO I feel that Sheploo is probably physcially superiror to femshep and personally I think It'd add depth to the game if femshep used different tactics then Sheapard when in physcial cut scenes with action/battle.

It has nothing to do with "degrading women etc" It is simply an observation and conclussion that most likley sheploo is physcially bigger and thefore superiror.

I agree that MaleShep is physically bigger and could be able to do more physical melee damage than a FemShep. But I think that if they're the same class, then their tactics does not need to be different. Let's say if both MaleShep and FemShep are snipers, their tactic should be to keep their distance from enemies and snipe them from afar, regardless of their gender. Whereas soldierSheps might be able to charge headlong into fights without much problem whether they are male or female.

So I think MaleShep and Femshep might not need to use a different tactics, but a soldierShep or adeptShep should.