286 réponses à ce sujet

[Crimmsonwind]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Zu Long wrote...
Actually they CAN pass the Marine physical acceptance test, the problem is that current US military policy forbids women in what it calls "frontline combat positions" due to gender discrimantion. Again, as women not in "frontline combat positions" have encountered combat situations due to the chaos of war and performed well, these policies are coming under review and being shown as mostly baseless.

Average marine trials? Yes they can pass them. Those are not nearly as demanding as Special Forces.

Also, there are other reasons why woman are generally kept out of combat. Mostly practical and psychological.

I would like to hear your explanation for this. That seems rather... rude.

Edit: And you're still off-topic.

Modifié par Crimmsonwind, 16 août 2011 - 10:13 .

[magicalzero]

The Woldan wrote...

There are still major physical problems with female soldiers in combat, let me make a practical example: a soldier gets shot and injured and can't move, he needs help to get out of the immediate danger zone as quickly as possible. He weighs 200 lbs + 60 lbs of combat gear. A male trained squad mate can pick him up, shoulder him and carry him out of the danger zone ( 50 meters). Now show me a female soldier who can do the same. If there is an imbalance of power and / or skill in a front line squad things get screwed up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an anti-feminist ore anything like that, just telling facts.

Dude, are you serious? A physically fit female soldier should be able to do this without issue. It's not like she'll be attempting a snatch lift or something. In fact technique and form is just as important in this scenario.

[The Baconer]

http://i52.tinypic.com/vo3l7p.jpg

Modifié par The Baconer, 16 août 2011 - 10:20 .

[Crimmsonwind]

@ Baconer: Maybe that was the original intention, but it's at least an interesting point and not completely inane.

And everyone always jumps on everything that doesn't agree with them and they automatically brand it a troll thread. "Oh no, they have different opinions! TROLLS."

But I digress. I think this thread is winding down now.

[Wulfram]

I'd rather distinguish based on class than gender.

[Zu Long]

The Baconer wrote...

http://i52.tinypic.com/vo3l7p.jpg

Okay, this made me laugh.

[The Spamming Troll]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Zu Long wrote...
Actually they CAN pass the Marine physical acceptance test, the problem is that current US military policy forbids women in what it calls "frontline combat positions" due to gender discrimantion. Again, as women not in "frontline combat positions" have encountered combat situations due to the chaos of war and performed well, these policies are coming under review and being shown as mostly baseless.

Average marine trials? Yes they can pass them. Those are not nearly as demanding as Special Forces.

Also, there are other reasons why woman are generally kept out of combat. Mostly practical and psychological.

I would like to hear your explanation for this. That seems rather... rude.

Edit: And you're still off-topic.

because some hairy fat dude getting killed isnt the same as some cute chick with glasses getting killed.

when i really think about it, i dont think id want a girl in my squad, whom i wasnt already bangin.

the galaxy would be destroyed by he reapers, while i was staring at mirandas booty or samaras cleav.

[Tigerman123]

I don't know that it matters, for one thing Shepards are soldiers (ie they inflict harm via projectile weapons), not professional boxers, besides which Mass Effect is a heroic fantasy in which male shepard routinely squares off against yahg or Krogan or whatever, creatures which are clearly grossly out of his weight class and as such would be be pretty much inviolate in a physical confrontation.

Male shep is an epicene wimp by action hero standards anyway

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Tigerman123, 17 août 2011 - 01:13 .

[1136342t54_]

The Woldan wrote...

There are still major physical problems with female soldiers in combat, let me make a practical example: a soldier gets shot and injured and can't move, he needs help to get out of the immediate danger zone as quickly as possible. He weighs 200 lbs + 60 lbs of combat gear. A male trained squad mate can pick him up, shoulder him and carry him out of the danger zone ( 50 meters). Now show me a female soldier who can do the same. If there is an imbalance of power and / or skill in a front line squad things get screwed up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an anti-feminist ore anything like that, just telling facts.

One of the main points of training is so that someone can do what you just said. No normal person can do those actions its just that when you are in training for a while a woman or a man should be able to perform objectives with almost the same efficiency. 

Key word almost.

[Clonedzero]

dr. chawkas talking to shepard about her not so fresh feeling.

SUMMERS EVE

[InvincibleHero]

I am at the point where it doesn't matter. Games have been like this for decades from RPGs to computer games. They need not be realistic in every manner. Most of the damage is done with guns and powers anyway.

I don't see how a super femShep would impact anyone else's enjoyment of playing the game. Fun> realism is usually the case in my book. Of course that depends on the context for general application of that maxim.

[Golden Owl]

Brand New wrote...

Personally I feel that is a silly answer that he can do what she can do etc. Male Shepard is much larger then femshep. When I see femshep go against the Shadow Broker I kinda LOL to myself at how small she is doing that. It would just make more sense to me if femshep used more thoughtout tactcis then charge and use their physcial superiority.

Kasai666 wrote...

After the Lazerus Project, they are the same.

I doubt the lLazerus project made either of them physcially superior. The goal of it was to bring them back to life not make them stronger. Like said there were very few modifications and nothing to really change either shepards.

Actually there are changes....Shep would not be able to use the Widow otherwise.

[RPGamer13]

See?

That's why Bioware needs to make FemShep more muscular and she should hit harder than her counterpart.

[Lotion Soronarr]

m_k wrote...

They have synthetic muscles, a reinforced skull and tons of overly complex enhancements. I doubt gender is an issue anymore.

But ManShep has bigger synthetic muscles.

Yeah, in army it's stamina > strength, basicaly. You don't need physical strength as much as you did in the ancient warfare.

Physical prowess inclused mroe than strength - it's a catch-all term for strength, speed, endurance, reflexes, etc..

And while it's true that the importance of it lesser in modern combat, but it is't fully gone. Strength and endurance are important when you have to march long distances with tons of gear. Speed is always important - the faster you are, the harder you are to hit..and the less time it takes to move from cover to cover. Reflexes are self-explanatory.

[bucyrus5000]

I think there is plenty of reason to consider both Manshep and Femshep having superhuman strength, but I wouldn't mind if Manshep had a monster punch he uses, whereas Femshep has a monster kick she favors. Still makes little difference. I will be playing through twice as much with Femshep than Manshep.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Zu Long wrote...
Actually they CAN pass the Marine physical acceptance test, the problem is that current US military policy forbids women in what it calls "frontline combat positions" due to gender discrimantion. Again, as women not in "frontline combat positions" have encountered combat situations due to the chaos of war and performed well, these policies are coming under review and being shown as mostly baseless.

Average marine trials? Yes they can pass them. Those are not nearly as demanding as Special Forces.

Also, there are other reasons why woman are generally kept out of combat. Mostly practical and psychological.

I would like to hear your explanation for this. That seems rather... rude.

Edit: And you're still off-topic.

The topic is what you make of it.

Anyways, google Combat Readyness Center...try searching around, you should find the report I was talking about.

Now no one is saying that woman are crap fighters. They can be decent fighters, that's a given.

The problem is that they have to strain themselves far more than men to achieve the same results, and hurt their bodies more in the process. (you should read upon the large number of injuries among woman in combat roles) The second problem is that you reach a point where you can't go any furhter, no matter how much you strain. And the male can go furtehr still.
And if you're special forces, where you'll be alone behind enemy lines with little support, wouldnt' you wan't only the best covering your back?

The tip of hte spear, the elite of the elite in the military...will never be females. The nature and basic biology just doesn't work in their favor.
Some might get insulted by this, but it's a factual thing. Just like it's a fact that women live longer. Do you see me fuming that that's feminist talk? Fact is fact. People should acccept it and move on with their lives.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Crimmsonwind wrote...
In terms of appearance, yeah, her arms are kind of thin, for her strength, but she doesn't look anorexic. I wouldn't mind if they gave us an option to bulk up our arms a little. Not body-builder arms, but toned. But she does have the body of an athletic individual.

Well, DA2 Fem Hawke did look like a physically strong fighter.

[xXljoshlXx]

Well I thought of it this way if the suit gives you a extended limit no amount of human muscle can do anything to change it. Basically what I believe is the Human limit has been passed in the ME universe so everything done in cut scenes isn't human strength but the implants and suits doing all the work

[Arppis]

The Woldan wrote...

Crimmsonwind wrote...
In terms of appearance, yeah, her arms are kind of thin, for her strength, but she doesn't look anorexic. I wouldn't mind if they gave us an option to bulk up our arms a little. Not body-builder arms, but toned. But she does have the body of an athletic individual.

Well, DA2 Fem Hawke did look like a physically strong fighter.

That's a mage.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Arppis wrote...
That's a mage.

You should see her whirling around her staff.

Well I thought of it this way if the suit gives you a extended limit no amount of human muscle can do anything to change it. Basically what I believe is the Human limit has been passed in the ME universe so everything done in cut scenes isn't human strength but the implants and suits doing all the work.

Thats a pretty weak excuse for being out of shape, so in theory the average fat bastard could slip into one of those suits and turn into a super soldier? Nah.

Modifié par The Woldan , 17 août 2011 - 09:25 .

[Massadonious1]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
 Fact is fact. People should acccept it and move on with their lives.

In the same vein, they're not going to downgrade a video game character because such an argument is presented.

Perhaps it is you that needs to "move on."

[Arppis]

The Woldan wrote...

You should see her whirling around her staff.

Ohh...
I'll be... making a new DA2 game now! See you!

Modifié par Arppis, 17 août 2011 - 09:31 .

[Arppis]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
 Fact is fact. People should acccept it and move on with their lives.

In the same vein, they're not going to downgrade a video game character because such an argument is presented.

Perhaps it is you that needs to "move on."

Come on, nobody is expecting them to. It would require too many resources anyhows. He's just saying that fact is a fact.

[Zu Long]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Crimmsonwind wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Zu Long wrote...
Actually they CAN pass the Marine physical acceptance test, the problem is that current US military policy forbids women in what it calls "frontline combat positions" due to gender discrimantion. Again, as women not in "frontline combat positions" have encountered combat situations due to the chaos of war and performed well, these policies are coming under review and being shown as mostly baseless.

Average marine trials? Yes they can pass them. Those are not nearly as demanding as Special Forces.

Also, there are other reasons why woman are generally kept out of combat. Mostly practical and psychological.

I would like to hear your explanation for this. That seems rather... rude.

Edit: And you're still off-topic.

The topic is what you make of it.

Anyways, google Combat Readyness Center...try searching around, you should find the report I was talking about.

Now no one is saying that woman are crap fighters. They can be decent fighters, that's a given.

The problem is that they have to strain themselves far more than men to achieve the same results, and hurt their bodies more in the process. (you should read upon the large number of injuries among woman in combat roles) The second problem is that you reach a point where you can't go any furhter, no matter how much you strain. And the male can go furtehr still.
And if you're special forces, where you'll be alone behind enemy lines with little support, wouldnt' you wan't only the best covering your back?

The tip of hte spear, the elite of the elite in the military...will never be females. The nature and basic biology just doesn't work in their favor.
Some might get insulted by this, but it's a factual thing. Just like it's a fact that women live longer. Do you see me fuming that that's feminist talk? Fact is fact. People should acccept it and move on with their lives.

You bring up the combat readiness center a lot. I'm not sure I'm going to take the word of a non-military, third party organization dedicated to the idea that women shouldn't be in combat roles. They don't seem like a good source of unbiased info.

[Massadonious1]

Arppis wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
 Fact is fact. People should acccept it and move on with their lives.

In the same vein, they're not going to downgrade a video game character because such an argument is presented.

Perhaps it is you that needs to "move on."

Come on, nobody is expecting them to. It would require too many resources anyhows. He's just saying that fact is a fact.

The entire premise of this thread is that FemShep needs to use "different tactics" because MaleShep or Sheploo is physically superior. If he didn't believe that such a thing should occur, and simply wants to talk about women in the military, then perhaps he needs to take it to off topic.