256 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

I like Fenris.  I like having Fenris around.  I like using Fenris as an active party member.

I hate Fenris's outfit.  Luckily, I've installed a mod to let me change Fenris's outfit, because I dislike his default outfit so much that I can't tolerate having him in my party as long as he looks like that.

I had the same problem with Jack in ME2.  I didn't like her appearance, either, but I liked having another Biotic around, so I modified her apperance to remove her tattoos.

Being unable to change the appearance of companions whose appearances I genuinely dislike means that I won't use those companions, and that's a big problem.  Given the small number of companions available in these newer games, having that number reduced further by poor fashion choices has severe gameplay consequences.

Having the companions "look cool" doesn't help if we don't all agree what "cool" is.  And we clearly don't.  Adventuring in bare feet is very silly.

For future games, if you insist on unique companion appearances, I would willingly buy a DLC that enabled dressable companions.

[Redcoat]

For me, it's not so much appearance as practicality. There's no way Jack should be wearing her barely-there outfit into battle (or into a vacuum environment!), nor should Miranda be fighting in high heels. Likewise, in DA2, neither Varric nor Isabela should be wearing outfits into battle that expose their hearts to every stray blade and arrow.

The solution I came up with was basically what ME1 did - have the characters wear their "signature outfits" in the home base (like the Hanged Man), but in combat, where what they wear actually matters, let the player have control of what armour they use.

[Zjarcal]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I had the same problem with Jack in ME2.  I didn't like her appearance, either, but I liked having another Biotic around, so I modified her apperance to remove her tattoos.

Why would we have a say on things like tattoos? Should we also be able to customize their faces? They are not our characters, their basic looks are theirs and not for us to decide.

As for outfits (a completely different thing), I don't mind variety. Having different outfits is good, so long as those outfits are fitting for the character.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 16 août 2011 - 06:58 .

[ipgd]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Having the companions "look cool" doesn't help if we don't all agree what "cool" is.  And we clearly don't.  Adventuring in bare feet is very silly.

The point isn't to "look cool". The point is to bolster characterization through visual language. Jack's tattoos, for instance, say a lot about her character and her history; it's an added dimension of characterization that is not available when the character design is constrained by the identical body limitations imposed by the equipable armor system.

If making sure your squad is composed solely of characters who are visually appealing to you personally is, for whatever reason, more important than characterization for you, you can just... mod them. But that's not the point of character design.

Modifié par ipgd, 16 août 2011 - 07:04 .

[syllogi]

Yeah, um, if you don't like tattoos, that's your problem, not the problem of the art directors or writers who created the characters. Who decides what "unique" looks are too unique, anyway?

I'm all for being able to change my companions outfits, but if they have scars or tattoos, that is a part of their character designs. You can mod them to your heart's content, but that doesn't make the developers wrong for deciding to make the characters that way.

[AtreiyaN7]

Someone like Jack who has had certain life experiences and led a life of crime may very well have an entire bodysuit (of tattoos). Why should they have to conform to your personal likes/dislikes? Why can't they have their individuality?

I wouldn't ask a friend to get their tattoos removed just because I don't like them, and I don't see why a character should have to just because you dislike them. Don't like Jack's tattoos? Fine, be biased and don't use her, but they're a part of her character and her nature. I think the tattoos define her; they're her history.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 16 août 2011 - 07:22 .

[nitefyre410]

ipgd wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Having the companions "look cool" doesn't help if we don't all agree what "cool" is.  And we clearly don't.  Adventuring in bare feet is very silly.

The point isn't to "look cool". The point is to bolster characterization through visual language. Jack's tattoos, for instance, say a lot about her character and her history; it's an added dimension of characterization that is not available when the character design is constrained by the identical body limitations imposed by the equipable armor system.

If making sure your squad is composed solely of characters who are visually appealing to you personally is, for whatever reason, more important than characterization for you, you can just... mod them. But that's not the point of character design.

 

^ what this guy said

[Anarya]

Have you never been friends with someone whose personal style was not to your taste? If you like Fenris' personality and skill trees and whatever, it seems silly to not use him based on his outfit. It also seems silly to want to scrap unique appearances entirely just because out of the 21 or so companions with unique appearances we've had in ME2 and DA2, you've disliked how 2 of them looked.

[SoulRebel_1979]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Adventuring in bare feet is very silly.

.

Sam and Frodo did it, and if it's good enough for those guys, damn it, it's good enough for me.

[leggywillow]

You're complaining about not liking their tattoos?  What's next, you want to be able to pick their hairstyle and eye color?

It sounds like you basically want a CC for every single character, not just your PC.  And that's just not how it's ever going to work, nor should it.

[nitefyre410]

SoulRebel_1979 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Adventuring in bare feet is very silly.

.

Sam and Frodo did it, and if it's good enough for those guys, damn it, it's good enough for me.

 

You beat me to it  you ninja  

But i was going to say the same thing

[hoorayforicecream]

leggywillow wrote...

You're complaining about not liking their tattoos?  What's next, you want to be able to pick their hairstyle and eye color?

It sounds like you basically want a CC for every single character, not just your PC.  And that's just not how it's ever going to work, nor should it.

Actually, it was entirely available for Baldur's Gate (along with Multiplayer, actually). My friend and I played through all of Baldur's Gate together with a team comprised of anime characters, Star Trek: TNG cast members, and NBA players. We missed out on all of the story from the companions, but we had plenty of fun together in the dungeons and such.

"Sticky Fingers Riker" and "Hakeem Da Gnome" were rather hilarious concepts.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 16 août 2011 - 07:34 .

[leggywillow]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

You're complaining about not liking their tattoos?  What's next, you want to be able to pick their hairstyle and eye color?

It sounds like you basically want a CC for every single character, not just your PC.  And that's just not how it's ever going to work, nor should it.

Actually, it was entirely available for Baldur's Gate (along with Multiplayer, actually). My friend and I played through all of Baldur's Gate together with a team comprised of anime characters and NBA players. We missed out on all of the story from the companions, but we had plenty of fun together in the dungeons and such.

I didn't say you still couldn't have fun with the game, but you just said yourself that you missed out on all the companion stuff.

[Cutlass Jack]

ipgd wrote...

The point isn't to "look cool". The point is to bolster characterization through visual language. Jack's tattoos, for instance, say a lot about her character and her history; it's an added dimension of characterization that is not available when the character design is constrained by the identical body limitations imposed by the equipable armor system.

If making sure your squad is composed solely of characters who are visually appealing to you personally is, for whatever reason, more important than characterization for you, you can just... mod them. But that's not the point of character design.

You said it better than I planned to.

But yes, once again I find myself completely disagreeing with Sylvius. I love unique appearances. It allows characterization to carry through their visuals, as you noted. But also allows your companions to have varying height, weight, and body language. Instead of the much greater crime (in my mind at least) of everyone looking exactly like the player.

If I find myself liking or disliking someone more due to their unique appearance, then its doing its job really. Sure Jack's outfit makes her hard to like or want to like...but that's the point of it. Also when you look closer and realize she's just wearing her prison jumpsuit, it makes the whole thing understandable.

The tattoos? They tell a story. That story being "Mind your own @#$% business."

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 16 août 2011 - 07:48 .

[hoorayforicecream]

I don't support the idea of messing with companion appearances. I like the idea of companions having their own specific outfits and iconic looks (give them some different character-specific outfits to change into though... see Planescape Torment for an example of that). However, if multiplayer is in the cards, I fully support the idea of companion characters that you can create yourself. They wouldn't have their own stories, but that's ok. You can fill those in yourself, and if you're playing multiplayer, it lets your teammate customize his or her characters the way he or she likes.

[LadyJaneGrey]

I don't like all the character designs myself, but why would something that shallow rule them out as worth getting to know or using?    Every now and then I wish the developers would make all their characters as deformed as possible so we players would be forced to judge them solely on their dialogue and actions.

*Imagines wandering through Thedas with a band of Ugly Shepard lookalikes dressed in dirty, baggy, neon-colored sweatsuits.*

Edit: goofy formatting

Modifié par LadyJaneGrey, 16 août 2011 - 08:15 .

[MonkeyLungs]

I want to be able to outfit my companions for battle. I can choose their skills, control them in battle, I should be able to put them in some armor.

I want to be able to chop the toes off any dumbA hobbit that roles into battle with no shoes myself.

My suggestion has always been to make each type of armor look different on each character ... so leather looks different for Isabella then it does for Merrill. I also support having a tailor and an armorsmith that needs to be visited to alter the dimensions of the gear. Maybe if you bring the smith/tailor some extra armors the alterations would be cheaper. Allows for multiple uses of loot, something to do with junk clothes and armor and adds an element to the economy side of the game.

The companions would still have unique looks.

[devSin]

I just wish he had more of the spikes like he was supposed to so the spike jokes would make sense. Because they sort of don't with his final outfit.

I mean, if you're going to force the outfit, then maybe that outfit should fit the story, no?

David: "And his outfit is going to have lots of spikes and sharp edges!"
Art Department: "Would these smooth surfaces and feather-type things work?"
David: "No."
Art Department: "Great! Soft and smooth it is! Thanks, David!"

Modifié par devSin, 16 août 2011 - 08:39 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

My point here is that preventing us from giving them clothing adds nothing to the game aside from the designers
give them all different models and different animation rigs.  That's not nearly as valuable as being able to dress Isabela in armour.

As for the modding suggestion, modding DA2 to allow us to equip our companions is far from a straightforward process.  The human companions, sure - those armour models already exist.  But Merrill, Fenris, and Varric can't wear in the armour in the game because the armour in the game doesn't fit them.  And yet the game world is somehow devoid of elf and dwarf armour (despite us seeing quite a bit of it on other elves and dwarves).

leggywillow wrote...

You're complaining about not liking their tattoos?  What's next, you want to be able to pick their hairstyle and eye color?

No, I'm complaining that I can't make her wear a jacket.  I found the tattoos unsightly, and since I couldn't modify her model I had to modify her texture.

I would rather have been able to give her armour.

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Someone like Jack who has had certain life experiences and led a life of crime may very well have an entire bodysuit (of tattoos). Why should they have to conform to your personal likes/dislikes? Why can't they have their individuality?

I wouldn't ask a friend to get their tattoos removed just because I don't like them, and I don't see why a character should have to just because you dislike them. Don't like Jack's tattoos? Fine, be biased and don't use her, but they're a part of her character and her nature. I think the tattoos define her; they're her history.

You're conflating your role and Shepard's role.  Those aren't the same thing.  There's no reason for Jack not to have tattoos just because Shepard doesn't like them, but I'm not Shepard.  As the player, I'm vastly more important than Shepard.

[Xewaka]

I didn't use Jack, Miranda, Samara, Thane, nor Jacob in Mass Effect 2 for the sole reason that their outfits were not appropriate for combat situations and/or hazardous environments. In Dragon Age 2, I didn't use Isabela for the same reason.
In addition, the lack of statistical customization for companion building, along with the unexplainable forbidden schools reduced the chances of a possible DA 2 replay, already slim due to camera and paraphrase issues, to nearly zero, as variant party builds were practically forbidden.
Art and character design, like everything else in a video game, should be serving gameplay, not actively limiting it.

Modifié par Xewaka, 16 août 2011 - 08:53 .

[bEVEsthda]

I'm with Redcoat and Monkeylungs on this. And I don't quite see the angle that Sylvius started off on.
There's such a thing as custimized party members a la' IWD, and then the take what you get and live with it, BG style. DA is clearly on the BG-style side. But as party leader I should have the power to make sure companions equip best possible armour.
The downside of this is that developers need to make armour models that fit a lot of sizes and genders. This cost development time. Don't know what to say about that.

I do know what to say about developers wanting a character to look a certain way though, the reason M.L. gave once. If this was true, then the developers have definitely lost what a rpg is about, and have gone on to making intermittent movies, imposing the writer's story on the player. Maybe D.G have written too many books? M.L. played too much FF?

[macrocarl]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

My point here is that preventing us from giving them clothing adds nothing to the game aside from the designers
give them all different models and different animation rigs.  That's not nearly as valuable as being able to dress Isabela in armour.

I actually prefer different models and different animation rigs over armor.

[Nerdage]

Personally it calls attention to how copy&paste almost all the enemies are, as though the only people with personalities are the companions.

I know that's a problem in almost every game, but in DAO it was that way because that was just how armour looked, now we've got Fenris, Varric, Isabela looking drastically different from enemy rogues/warriors, who look really generic in comparison. I wish there were some randomization in enemy appearance/armour to go along with companion uniqueness, and if that means enemies aren't instantly recognizable visually any more, so be it.

[Wusword77]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
No, I'm complaining that I can't make her wear a jacket.  I found the tattoos unsightly, and since I couldn't modify her model I had to modify her texture.

But what if she doesn't want to wear armor?  Why are all companions supposed to be nothing but puppets for the player, when the player is only supposed to be a single character?