256 réponses à ce sujet

[hoorayforicecream]

Masako52 wrote...

As a cosplayer, I love that the characters have distinct costumes. And it helps that I pretty much love every costume design of the Companions. They're very expressive about the character, and cool looking to boot. Morrigan had an outfit in DAO, and it helps lend to the image of her.

However, I do wish we could have elements of customization. On a gameplay level, it's a shame to find awesome armor lying around and only have yourself to try it on - and two thirds of it you can't use due to character class. Furthermore, it always did seem unrealistic that the characters would wear the same exact thing for ten years. I know this is medieval times but c'mon.

Maybe if Bioware still gave us the option to have the default clothes, but make them "level up along with character" or something, so you can change them if you want but they never get super outdated. Or, maybe that's what the characters always wear in their homes, like Hawke wears his/her fancy noble threads. Still give us the option to play dress up, but keep that distinctive costume.

I always imagined something more like the armor rune system, except the different runes show up visibly. So like... Isabela will always be wearing a head scarf, a sash, a tunic and thigh boots. Maybe you can change the type of shoulder and arm guard she wears, or the kind of boots. Her basic look remains intact, but you can have the red armband or the green armband. The black boots or the brown ones. The blue head scarf or the red one. Etc.

[TEWR]

For me, the iconic look for Alistair (before making him king) was any sort of Templar armor.

For Morrigan, the Robes of Possession.

For Wynne, her default robes.

For Sten, it was the Heavy Plate armor set and helm you can buy from Mikhael Dryden.

For Oghren, the Legion of the Dead armor (which he came with in Awakening)

For Shale, being a golem.

For Dog, being a dog.

Leliana and Zevran were the only ones that were hard to give an iconic look for me, because most rogue armor was the same style.

[Blastback]

Masako52 wrote...


Maybe if Bioware still gave us the option to have the default clothes, but make them "level up along with character" or something, so you can change them if you want but they never get super outdated. Or, maybe that's what the characters always wear in their homes, like Hawke wears his/her fancy noble threads. Still give us the option to play dress up, but keep that distinctive costume.

Yes.  This.  I get that it ultimatly wouldn't allow for the individual body models that some of the fixed outfit fans like, but the charater can still have a unique appearance but be fully customisable. 

[Ianamus]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Well then, have I got a mod for you!

hmm, thanks. I might download it for my next play through, although I was planning on trying Isabela's romance this time.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't understand why people have a problem with long necks. 

I have a long neck. I know other people that have a long neck. There's nothing wrong with having a long neck, and I don't even see her neck as thin. It seems like a normal sized (in terms of width) neck, and her head seems entirely proportional to her neck


Now.... how many times did I say neck? Eight times it seems.

Ok, look, I have nothing against people wth slightly long necks 




But merrill looks like she's half-giraffe

Modifié par EJ107, 17 août 2011 - 01:46 .

[Harid]

I can't believe people are defending not being able to armor the characters we control.

I hope Bioware doesn't listen to these people going forward, because they clearly got backlash on the issue across the board.

If my character doesn't want to wear what I put on them to wear, who gives a **** what they want, they aren't people, I am. And if I get gear that is better than the crap my companions wear in the game, gear that will make them perform to their best, I should be able to put them in it, rather than being forced to wear crap armor that doesn't scale properly and has bad stats on it, because Bioware doesn't know how to stat gear properly.

I should not be forced to watch my companions break the continuity of their universe by wearing flimsy shirts when that universe, as it's told to us, has limited healing magic, no surgery, and the inability to resurrect the dead outside of game play. Just as sure as I would not expect a member of our military not to wear body armor (you know, to minimize death) my companions should have the same philosophy, because they don't want to die. Bubububut they aren't soldiers! I don't care. Mercenaries in our world also wear body armor, because they don't want to bloody die. Your people are not trying to blend in as civilians anywhere. So treat them as the people they are and put them in armor.

I should not be forced to watch companions wear stupid armor that doesn't protect them from the planets they jump on. When you have an acid atmosphere planet, and I have companions showing skin because you want them to look cool, they should be barred from the planet or dead. Not handwaved into wearing a stupid facial mask, not all of them have biotics and you have not told us that Biotics, tech shields, or armor protect anyone from these hazards. In some cases, you have shown us the exact opposite to this, like on Haestrom. Don't insult my intelligence by then having characters directly contradict this.

These things should be taken into consideration when writing the universes you write. The "It's just a video game" excuse is bull****, and I don't care if someone doesn't feel they deserve better from you, I do. And as long as I feel that way I won't let it slide.

If you want someone like Jack to have horrible full body tats fine. She can be her own person on the Normandy all she damn well pleases. But when I am dropping into a collector ship put the **** in some armor, and, I dunno, have that armor showcase her personality as well, her skin does not deflect bullets nor protect her from the vacuum or temperature of space. Likewise, Isabela should have some armor on so she doesn't get stabbed in the chest so easily, there is no coming back from death in Dragon Age. And healing magic can only protect you from so much, as you have stated yourselves.

And for the love of jesus, the flying spaghetti monster, buddha, or nothing, or whatever you believe in, if our companions don't wear helmets, putting them in the game is pointless. The toggle helps, but everyone should be wearing full armor under the constraints of your universe, just like everyone should be wearing full body suits in space in Mass Effect. If you plan on keeping unique looks, make it optional, like Morrigan in Dragon Age, and for the love of everything, keep the unique looks in the Normandy, and hell, out of it if you want, but I want my party in full body armor.

And don't tie armor changes to romances.

Ever again.

Modifié par Harid, 17 août 2011 - 01:53 .

[TEWR]

I don't see it. Maybe I'm biased because I have a long neck (I think my neck is the same length as Merrill's. I dunno)

[hoorayforicecream]

nerdage wrote...

Okay, in-game 'realistic'. I really just meant consistent (to the rest of the game's "realism"), like I said in my last post, I just worded it stupidly that time. The apostrophe quotes were meant to get all that across but on reflection there was no reason they would've..

I never had the problem of losing a sense for their character when companions wore "generic" armour in DAO. I would've liked the toggle to hide helmets, but even fully armoured they were always easy enough to pick out in a fight. But to me, Alistair in the Juggernaut set was his iconic look, it's what he wore for the majority of the game and I was there when we found it --earned it, even--, but it's also visually unique while still in-keeping with armour design throughout the game.

*That's* what I want. If the comapnion armour resembled other armour styles in the game closely enough to be recognizable as armour from the same setting, but still looked unique enough to have them stand out during a fight and give some hints as to their character (they don't need to wear their personalities like hats, but there's no reason their armour can't be personal to them), then I'd be happy.

I don't understand what the issue is. Isabela looks about how I expect a pirate to look. Light clothes, because heavy stuff can cause problems while doing shipboard tasks. She's a duelist, so she has a shoulderguard and arm brace for parrying, but doesn't weigh herself down with full armor. If it works for her and she's experienced with being able to fight in it, why not let her wear what she likes? Within the confines of the world as established by DA2 and DAO, it's acceptable... at least as much so as this outfit:



(Incidentally, this outfit is the one I considered "iconic" for Leliana, since it's the one I saw her in most)

Varric looks like how I expect a storyteller and shady merchant to dress. He shows off his riches, and he stands out with bright colors inside, but practical traveling overclothes outside. Sebastian looks fine. He wears a nobleman's set of protective armor for an archer (only needs one armguard, because his other will be behind him). Merrill looks like an elf... she wears green and chainmail underneath. Fenris is wearing some sort of Tevinter outfit, and I've never seen Tevinter armor before, so I really don't have something to compare it to. Aveline looks fine, and and that pretty much just leaves Anders as the odd one out because he doesn't wear robes like most mages do. 

[Nerdage]

EJ107 wrote...

Ok, look, I have nothing against people wth slightly long necks 
...
But merrill looks like she's half-giraffe

That's how she protects herself from demons, she can see them coming a really long way away.

Edit: @Hoorayforicecream: All I want is for them to work those characteristics into something more... armour-y. If that's not a concern for you then I don't think it's worth arguing about, it's just my preference.

Modifié par nerdage, 17 août 2011 - 02:04 .

[Redcoat]

Blastback wrote...

Masako52 wrote...


Maybe if Bioware still gave us the option to have the default clothes, but make them "level up along with character" or something, so you can change them if you want but they never get super outdated. Or, maybe that's what the characters always wear in their homes, like Hawke wears his/her fancy noble threads. Still give us the option to play dress up, but keep that distinctive costume.

Yes.  This.  I get that it ultimatly wouldn't allow for the individual body models that some of the fixed outfit fans like, but the charater can still have a unique appearance but be fully customisable. 

Well, like I said, there's no reason why characters cannot wear their distinctive outfits when they are at their home base. It'd look rather ridiculous if Varric were wearing armour in the Hanged Man, don't you think?

But when Hawke and Co. are out adventuring, where what they are wearing has a measurable influence on how they perform in combat, then I want to control what they wear; the developers "artistic vision" be damned. Few things annoy me more than seeing the developers "creativity" getting in the way of gameplay.

[Zanallen]

Not to mention that the leather armor that people want Isabela to wear isn't really all that protective. It isn't going to turn a thrust or stop an arrow. At best, it might cause a slash to run shallow. Of course, even then a woman of Isabela's stature would be crushed by a blow from a sword, armor or no.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Harid wrote...

And don't tie armor changes to romances.

Ever again.

Hee.  It does lead to misunderstandings.

Husband was in Act 3 on his second (?) playthrough, and I saw Anders in his black outfit and forgot he was an exception to that rule.

• Me: "You shagged Anders?" (slightly in shock; he doesn't like the character)
• Him: death glare
• Me: "Never mind." (scurries out of room)

[Sylvianus]

Zanallen wrote...

willholt wrote...

Absolutely!

The day an in game character can do AI to the same level as the player is the day I say, "Oki Doki, wear what you like!"

As long as I have to tell them what tactics to use, where to move to, move them out of harm's way cause they are standing there like lemons while the enemy lays into them... and they insist on wearing a 70's disco shirt while fighting templers, then I want to control their costumes

Either total control or no control and they do their own thing (like the Witcher's companions when they accompany him on quests).
Either the game is a party-based RPG, or it's a single character RPG with some NPC's along for the ride.

And where does your total control end? Should we have IWD again and have the entire party be created by the player? Should you be able to decide their class, race, gender and looks? Are they your characters or are they their own? Should they even have their own personalities or should you control everything they say as well?

Too complicated to express my thoughts in this language...

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 août 2011 - 03:17 .

[TEWR]

Regarding Isabela's armor, here's something I posted on another thread:

Her armor is a different issue because it doesn't appear fit for battle. her upgraded romanced armor is slightly more fit for battle. But the problem isn't what she actually is seen wearing. Rather, it's the lack of change in her armor when you buy upgrades or find them.

• Supportive Corselet
  
• Rigid Boning (I'm unsure of what this actually is, but I know one type of rigid boning she gets  )
  
• Lambswool Insoles
  
• Boiled Leather Plates

Boiled Leather plates and a supportive corselet. Had those affected the visuals of her armor, she'd look different. It's not a problem with her looks, but rather with how Bioware handled the armor system.

I don't know if this would've changed her butt flap though (that's what I like to call it because it reminds me of Peter Griffin in his pajamas, despite being completely different) 


edit: removed some unnecessary parts.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 17 août 2011 - 02:14 .

[Zanallen]

Sylvianus wrote...

[Snip]

Goodness that was difficult to read. I can understand that you want choice to customize your companions. That's fine. The question I am asking is where your choice should end and Bioware's begin? You can still customize your companions in DA2. You can use accessories to augment their stats and and rune slots to effect various things. The effects are not as great as they were in DA:O, but they are there. The only thing you have absolutely no control over is what the character looks like. And why should you?

There are plenty of people on these forums that value a unique look to their companions over being able to dress them how they want. I am one of them. I also know a good number of people outside of these forums who feel the same. No side as a clear majority and so both sides have equal merit to their argument. However, you can't have it both ways since the constraints of game design do not allow for complete armor customization while keeping the companions looking unique. There are compromises that exist and Bioware should look into them, but going back to the Origins style would, in my opinion, be a step backwards.

[Firky]

@icecream I do get what you're saying, but you could also probably get the answer "Leia" by simply saying, "Finish this sentence. Luke and ..." Also, Leia is way more of an interesting character than a haircut.

I can certainly understand why people would like unique looks for followers, and that it's more consistent with a whole bunch of cutscenes, etc, in the overall sense of the game. But, when I look at companions in a party-based RPG, I want see stats, resistances, abilities, etc, not part of the story. (The companion armour upgrades didn't even involve choice. You just found them staggered through the game and equipped them. I couldn't tell you what Merrill's armour did.)

Also. Merrill changed her armour after a romance? Whoa. (By which I mean blegh. Not my thing.)

[Zanallen]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Regarding Isabela's armor, here's something I posted on another thread:

I don't know if this would've changed her butt flap though (that's what I
like to call it because it reminds me of Peter Griffin in his pajamas,
despite being completely different)

edit: removed some unnecessary parts.

Regarding the leather plates, I believe those are part of her arm brace.
[*]

[Sylvianus]

Zanallen wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

[Snip]

Goodness that was difficult to read. I can understand that you want choice to customize your companions. That's fine. The question I am asking is where your choice should end and Bioware's begin? You can still customize your companions in DA2. You can use accessories to augment their stats and and rune slots to effect various things. The effects are not as great as they were in DA:O, but they are there. The only thing you have absolutely no control over is what the character looks like. And why should you?

There are plenty of people on these forums that value a unique look to their companions over being able to dress them how they want. I am one of them. I also know a good number of people outside of these forums who feel the same. No side as a clear majority and so both sides have equal merit to their argument. However, you can't have it both ways since the constraints of game design do not allow for complete armor customization while keeping the companions looking unique. There are compromises that exist and Bioware should look into them, but going back to the Origins style would, in my opinion, be a step backwards.

They have their own behavior, their own thoughts, their own reactions, their own actions and evolutions in the story.

To summarize, even if we choose the clothes of our team, it won't change the fact that they are truly independent in the story. So stop with the story of lack of independence for an area that plays so little in the story, and plays in the same time a major role for the player. Simply, I hope we will talk more about  visual art. I find it less insulting to my intelligence.

I'm for everything but the system of DA2 or something similar.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 août 2011 - 02:37 .

[SkittlesKat96]

I like unique appearances but on the other hand I suppose I don't mind being able to put armor on my companions either.

I think I like putting armor on my companions slightly more...but I suppose they could do a hybrid of the system. I never liked how I had to take away Morrigan's Robes and replace her with those stuffy circle enchanter robes and I had to put cloth hats on her. But I did like how I could put Effort armor on Alistair. I liked putting crystals on Shale too but I didn't like putting leather armor on Leliana and so on...

EDIT: I find it more realistic that companions wear their own clothing in DA 2 but like I said, I reckon they should make a compromise out of it.

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 17 août 2011 - 02:47 .

[Nerdage]

Harid wrote...

And don't tie armor changes to romances.

Ever again.

I don't know, I thought Fenris' and Isabela's armbands were pretty good ideas, just small tokens of the romance.

Would've been nice if the changes were a bit more personal though, something that's actually related to the characters or the relationship. As it is it looks a bit like they just swiped a tea towel from the estate while Hawke wasn't looking and wrapped it around their arm.

Merrill's full armour change and bits of Isabela's armour change (upgrading her shoulder guard at the start of the relationship? Inauspicious start to any relationship if you ask me) were a bit wierd though.

[willholt]

Zanallen wrote...

willholt wrote...

Absolutely!

The day an in game character can do AI to the same level as the player is the day I say, "Oki Doki, wear what you like!"

As long as I have to tell them what tactics to use, where to move to, move them out of harm's way cause they are standing there like lemons while the enemy lays into them... and they insist on wearing a 70's disco shirt while fighting templers, then I want to control their costumes

Either total control or no control and they do their own thing (like the Witcher's companions when they accompany him on quests).
Either the game is a party-based RPG, or it's a single character RPG with some NPC's along for the ride.

And where does your total control end? Should we have IWD again and have the entire party be created by the player? Should you be able to decide their class, race, gender and looks? Are they your characters or are they their own? Should they even have their own personalities or should you control everything they say as well?

Companion armour is a function of combat. As long as my companions are AI morons and I'm supposed to decide their moves and their tactics, then YES, I should control what they wear as well.

All I'm asking for is options... and all I'm saying is if those options aren't there then I'm not interested.

If I want to chose functionality over looks, like I did in my modded DA2, that should not impact your game. If your game ships with each character having an individual look, and you wish to play your game using that look, that's fine. If however, the option exists in-game to swap that 'catwalk' look for a (any) set of armour I find in game, which makes might make my character look 'generic' (but that's what I wish to do) that shouldn't impact your gaming experience whatsoever.

What I see is a lot of individuals are effectively saying is 'This is how I want the game to treat companion armour/looks, and I don't want Bioware to offer any other options to anyone else.'

I've actually seen individuals posting and saying, 'I like the unique look system in DA2. I hate having to constantly swap out companion armour, so I prefer it not to be there so I don't have to do it!

Well, here's a thought... if it annoys you that much don't spend your time swapping armour. But please don't insist Bioware remove (or in DA3's case Restore) a feature just because you don't like it being there!

Individual look AND the option for the player to ditch that look if they desire is how it should be in DA3. That way everyone is happy.

... er except those who hate the thought that another person might play the game differently, apparently!

[Gespenst]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I don't understand what the issue is. Isabela looks about how I expect a pirate to look. Light clothes, because heavy stuff can cause problems while doing shipboard tasks.

Just ask Frederick Barbarosa. He wasn't even on a ship...

[Zanallen]

willholt wrote...

Companion armour is a function of combat. As long as my companions are AI morons and I'm supposed to decide their moves and their tactics, then YES, I should control what they wear as well.

All I'm asking for is options... and all I'm saying is if those options aren't there then I'm not interested.

If I want to chose functionality over looks, like I did in my modded DA2, that should not impact your game. If your game ships with each character having an individual look, and you wish to play your game using that look, that's fine. If however, the option exists in-game to swap that 'catwalk' look for a (any) set of armour I find in game, which makes might make my character look 'generic' (but that's what I wish to do) that shouldn't impact your gaming experience whatsoever.

What I see is a lot of individuals are effectively saying is 'This is how I want the game to treat companion armour/looks, and I don't want Bioware to offer any other options to anyone else.'

I've actually seen individuals posting and saying, 'I like the unique look system in DA2. I hate having to constantly swap out companion armour, so I prefer it not to be there so I don't have to do it!

Well, here's a thought... if it annoys you that much don't spend your time swapping armour. But please don't insist Bioware remove (or in DA3's case Restore) a feature just because you don't like it being there!

Individual look AND the option for the player to ditch that look if they desire is how it should be in DA3. That way everyone is happy.

... er except those who hate the thought that another person might play the game differently, apparently!

class choice is also a function of combat. Do you want control over that as well?

And the problem with just having both is that it just isn't possible. You can't have unique body models and allow for the ability to switch out all armor. Bioware would have to provide unique armor that scales with the character while also offering various forms of stat customizability that is equivalent to being able to pick and choose companion armor. I just don't see Bioware wasting time and resources to provide two equally viable companion equipment options.

There are compromises available. They could allow you to change the companion's armor, but not have it effect their outward appearance. They could design a handful of different armor sets unique to each character and allow the player to switch them around and upgrade them. There are a few more that could work as well, but I am not going to list them. The main point is that you cannot have DA2 style AND DA:O style in the same game without making the system being needlessly expensive on Bioware's part.

[Harid]

nerdage wrote...

Harid wrote...

And don't tie armor changes to romances.

Ever again.

I don't know, I thought Fenris' and Isabela's armbands were pretty good ideas, just small tokens of the romance.

Would've been nice if the changes were a bit more personal though, something that's actually related to the characters or the relationship. As it is it looks a bit like they just swiped a tea towel from the estate while Hawke wasn't looking and wrapped it around their arm.

Merrill's full armour change and bits of Isabela's armour change (upgrading her shoulder guard at the start of the relationship? Inauspicious start to any relationship if you ask me) were a bit wierd though.

I don't personally think that costume changes should be tied to romances when we are dealing with a 7 year period, people should change their gear as time passes naturally.  If these people are their own people, you can't on the other hand, take the fact that these people change their gear in respect to your relationship, without to me, coming across as a gigantic hypocrite.

Fenris should be wearing more kirkwall armor (though that would rely on Bioware actually differentiating between Marcher and Tevinter gear), he has no interest nor love of Tevinter, it makes no sense for him to keep wearing those clothes.

Isabela doesn't own a ship, and can possibly, never own a ship again, so her wearing her pirate clothes, the same she was wearing when she robbed the Qunari, only to end up in a town with Qunari, and not try to change her appearance is stupid, and Isabela doesn't show her self to be stupid.

Merrill is no longer dalish and should not be wearing the clothing of the dalish in the alienage, especially given how the dalish treat city elves, her stupidity aside.

And a bunch of other reasons.

[devSin]

EJ107 wrote...

But merrill looks like she's half-giraffe

Hey! How do you think she's supposed to reach the top branches?

[willholt]

Zanallen wrote...


class choice is also a function of combat. Do you want control over that as well?

In DAO I already have it ... thanks to a very VERY nice mod called 'Quests and Legends.' Apparently there are DA2 mods that allow it too.

Zanallen wrote...

And the problem with just having both is that it just isn't possible. You can't have unique body models and allow for the ability to switch out all armor. Bioware would have to provide unique armor that scales with the character while also offering various forms of stat customizability that is equivalent to being able to pick and choose companion armor. I just don't see Bioware wasting time and resources to provide two equally viable companion equipment options.

I've just finished doing my one and only playthrough of DA2 using an 'Equip Your Companions' Mod. The only characters I couldn't swap out were Varric and Mr Emoelf. Apparently both were down to Elf and Dwarf armour being basically absent in-game.

As for all the other characters, I had them wearing what I wanted to wear. This meant I lost each characters's unique mesh, but it didn't bother me. At a guess all male and female armours are designed to fit male/female Hawk... but they worked fine on all the other male/females. I basically swapped form for function and it allowed me to enjoy the game just enough to get through it.

This is the level of functionality I'm asking for... Not for every in-game armour to have a fit for every individual companion form, just the option to lose that individuality so I can customise their function to what I wish it to be.

All the armour I used on companions in DA2 where originally for the PC. Unless Bioware plan to stop making loads of male/female armour for the PC, I fail to see how the level of functionality and customisation I'm requesting is going to be any more expensive

Zanallen wrote... The main point is that you cannot have DA2 style AND DA:O style in the same game without making the system being needlessly expensive on Bioware's part.

I disagree... read above