nitefyre410 wrote...
Yes someone who played the game would know that to someone that does not know anything about Bioware or its games it look "Genric" Fantasy warrior #15 at lucnh on tuesday
hoorayforicecream wrote...
nerdage wrote...
If it's enough on its own then is it necessary or even good to have their entire outfit be so radically different from everyone else's, too? I wonder if the same realities even apply to some companions as apply to the rest of the world.ipgd wrote...
The point was that visuals are important for iconic character recognition. Hair is one aspect that works towards accomplishing that.nerdage wrote...
Proof you don't need unique outfits to make characters recognizable?Even if you cover the bottom half of the image it's still pretty obvious who she's meant to be.Zanallen wrote...
She is wearing Leia's signature outfit there. Of course, the real unique look is the hair, which is something that only Morrigan had in DA:O and is part of having a unique image.
Can you tell whose costume this is?
How about this one?
Gunderic wrote...
hoorayforicecream wrote...
nerdage wrote...
If it's enough on its own then is it necessary or even good to have their entire outfit be so radically different from everyone else's, too? I wonder if the same realities even apply to some companions as apply to the rest of the world.ipgd wrote...
The point was that visuals are important for iconic character recognition. Hair is one aspect that works towards accomplishing that.nerdage wrote...
Proof you don't need unique outfits to make characters recognizable?Even if you cover the bottom half of the image it's still pretty obvious who she's meant to be.Zanallen wrote...
She is wearing Leia's signature outfit there. Of course, the real unique look is the hair, which is something that only Morrigan had in DA:O and is part of having a unique image.
Can you tell whose costume this is?
*snip*
How about this one?
*snip*
That's a bit of an unfair comparison. I don't remember Leliana wearing that outfit ( or seeing it in the game for that matter ), and I thought that thing in the picture looked like a staff at first.
That picture of Isabela doesn't look like cosplay either.
Zanallen wrote...
nitefyre410 wrote...
Yes someone who played the game would know that to someone that does not know anything about Bioware or its games it look "Genric" Fantasy warrior #15 at lucnh on tuesday
Not to mention that a male Cousland can have that exact same armor and haircut, even at Ostagar. Also, there are several NPCs that share that armor and hair style. There is nothing uniquely Alistair about it.
Modifié par nitefyre410, 17 août 2011 - 12:41 .
nitefyre410 wrote...
Gunderic wrote...
hoorayforicecream wrote...
Firky wrote...
@icecream Hahaha. Cool example.
Maybe it also highlights something about technology these days, though. If 16x16 is all you've got to work with, people can hardly get worried if they don't like the way a character looks. Fenris needs black feet pixels instead of orange?
It's probably too off-topic, so I wont dwell on it but, to my old school brain, cinematics/visual storytelling still really add very little to an RPG. (Part of the reason Leliana in a leather bikini irked me is that I could see her. In BG2, everyone was so tiny, who cares if you're in Ankheg green armour or some other colour?)
(Which is not to detract from the good job cinematic designers are doing. 90% of it goes over my head, sadly. But, I think it's an evolving part of gaming, and maybe it'll impact me more in the future, who knows?)
*snip*
Eh? It's pretty obvious that this is Alistair. Or did I miss the point?
Yes someone who played the game would know that to someone that does not know anything about Bioware or its games it look "Genric" Fantasy warrior #15 at lucnh on tuesday
Zanallen wrote...
That is Leliana's Sacred Ashes trailer outfit, I believe.
Gunderic wrote...
Ah, I think you're right. But that would make it a unique appearance that I didn't recognize.
Gunderic wrote...
nitefyre410 wrote...
Gunderic wrote...
hoorayforicecream wrote...
Firky wrote...
@icecream Hahaha. Cool example.
Maybe it also highlights something about technology these days, though. If 16x16 is all you've got to work with, people can hardly get worried if they don't like the way a character looks. Fenris needs black feet pixels instead of orange?
It's probably too off-topic, so I wont dwell on it but, to my old school brain, cinematics/visual storytelling still really add very little to an RPG. (Part of the reason Leliana in a leather bikini irked me is that I could see her. In BG2, everyone was so tiny, who cares if you're in Ankheg green armour or some other colour?)
(Which is not to detract from the good job cinematic designers are doing. 90% of it goes over my head, sadly. But, I think it's an evolving part of gaming, and maybe it'll impact me more in the future, who knows?)
*snip*
Eh? It's pretty obvious that this is Alistair. Or did I miss the point?
Yes someone who played the game would know that to someone that does not know anything about Bioware or its games it look "Genric" Fantasy warrior #15 at lucnh on tuesday
But someone who doesn't know anything about BioWare would recognize a Dragon Age 2 cosplay?
Modifié par nitefyre410, 17 août 2011 - 12:47 .
nitefyre410 wrote...
Gunderic wrote...
hoorayforicecream wrote...
nerdage wrote...
If it's enough on its own then is it necessary or even good to have their entire outfit be so radically different from everyone else's, too? I wonder if the same realities even apply to some companions as apply to the rest of the world.ipgd wrote...
The point was that visuals are important for iconic character recognition. Hair is one aspect that works towards accomplishing that.nerdage wrote...
Proof you don't need unique outfits to make characters recognizable?Even if you cover the bottom half of the image it's still pretty obvious who she's meant to be.Zanallen wrote...
She is wearing Leia's signature outfit there. Of course, the real unique look is the hair, which is something that only Morrigan had in DA:O and is part of having a unique image.
Can you tell whose costume this is?
*snip*
How about this one?
*snip*
That's a bit of an unfair comparison. I don't remember Leliana wearing that outfit ( or seeing it in the game for that matter ), and I thought that thing in the picture looked like a staff at first.
That picture of Isabela doesn't look like cosplay either.
It cosplay - its a REALLY good cosplay from someone who took time and effort in make the costoume.
Gunderic wrote...
*snip*
My bad; I thought it was a CGI render.
Modifié par nitefyre410, 17 août 2011 - 12:51 .
Zanallen wrote...
Gunderic wrote...
Ah, I think you're right. But that would make it a unique appearance that I didn't recognize.
A unique appearance that Bioware scrapped to allow you to pick and choose what armor she wore, yes.
Gunderic wrote...
Zanallen wrote...
Gunderic wrote...
Ah, I think you're right. But that would make it a unique appearance that I didn't recognize.
A unique appearance that Bioware scrapped to allow you to pick and choose what armor she wore, yes.
Why would they scrap it if items like Morrigan's robes made it into the game?
Gunderic wrote...
But someone who doesn't know anything about BioWare would recognize a Dragon Age 2 cosplay?
Gunderic wrote...
My bad; I thought it was a CGI render.
Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 17 août 2011 - 04:43 .
Sylvius the Mad wrote...
That's no reason to require that Isabela look exactly that way for every player.hoorayforicecream wrote...
Suppose they are both wearing the same helmets that obscure their faces and hair. You know, the kind that are everywhere in Dragon Age.
Isabela isn't supposed to look like a generic rogue, because she's not a generic rogue. She's a pirate, a swashbuckler, and a duelist, and her outfit helps show that. Quickness and speed, some armor for defensive fighting, just like she says. Isabela is supposed to look like Isabela. That's why I want her to look recognizable.
nitefyre410 wrote...
Gunderic wrote...
hoorayforicecream wrote...
Firky wrote...
@icecream Hahaha. Cool example.
Maybe it also highlights something about technology these days, though. If 16x16 is all you've got to work with, people can hardly get worried if they don't like the way a character looks. Fenris needs black feet pixels instead of orange?
It's probably too off-topic, so I wont dwell on it but, to my old school brain, cinematics/visual storytelling still really add very little to an RPG. (Part of the reason Leliana in a leather bikini irked me is that I could see her. In BG2, everyone was so tiny, who cares if you're in Ankheg green armour or some other colour?)
(Which is not to detract from the good job cinematic designers are doing. 90% of it goes over my head, sadly. But, I think it's an evolving part of gaming, and maybe it'll impact me more in the future, who knows?)
*snip*
Eh? It's pretty obvious that this is Alistair. Or did I miss the point?
Yes someone who played the game would know that to someone that does not know anything about Bioware or its games it look "Genric" Fantasy warrior #15 at lucnh on tuesday
hoorayforicecream wrote...
Gunderic wrote...
My bad; I thought it was a CGI render.
Here's another shot of the Leliana costume from a different cosplayer. It's probably the best quality costume I could find via google on a bunch of cosplay sites.
*snip*
It's entirely based on her Sacred Ashes look, which is tied to her concept art:
Click for full image of cosplayer in Leliana costume (link is SFW, site is not). She did a fantastic job with her costume, but recognition of the character is limited to those familiar with the concept art, or the sacred ashes trailer. Note that even DAO fans in this thread weren't able to recognize her outfit.
Click for full image of cosplayer in Isabela costume. She also did a fantastic job with her costume, and anyone who has seen promotional materials or played the game and met the character will likely recognize exactly who she is.
Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I like Fenris. I like having Fenris around. I like using Fenris as an active party member.
I hate Fenris's outfit. Luckily, I've installed a mod to let me change Fenris's outfit, because I dislike his default outfit so much that I can't tolerate having him in my party as long as he looks like that.
I had the same problem with Jack in ME2. I didn't like her appearance, either, but I liked having another Biotic around, so I modified her apperance to remove her tattoos.
Being unable to change the appearance of companions whose appearances I genuinely dislike means that I won't use those companions, and that's a big problem. Given the small number of companions available in these newer games, having that number reduced further by poor fashion choices has severe gameplay consequences.
Having the companions "look cool" doesn't help if we don't all agree what "cool" is. And we clearly don't. Adventuring in bare feet is very silly.
For future games, if you insist on unique companion appearances, I would willingly buy a DLC that enabled dressable companions.
Eollodwyn wrote...
*snip*
I played DAO twice through and I only recognized him because of the hair and the rose. All the armor in the game was so generic that the only character who had an "image" in my mind was Morrigan. I even kept her armor around much longer (at the cost of her stats) because I thought it was a part of her.
Modifié par nitefyre410, 17 août 2011 - 05:08 .
nitefyre410 wrote...
hoorayforicecream wrote...
Gunderic wrote...
My bad; I thought it was a CGI render.
Here's another shot of the Leliana costume from a different cosplayer. It's probably the best quality costume I could find via google on a bunch of cosplay sites.
*snip*
It's entirely based on her Sacred Ashes look, which is tied to her concept art:
Click for full image of cosplayer in Leliana costume (link is SFW, site is not). She did a fantastic job with her costume, but recognition of the character is limited to those familiar with the concept art, or the sacred ashes trailer. Note that even DAO fans in this thread weren't able to recognize her outfit.
Click for full image of cosplayer in Isabela costume. She also did a fantastic job with her costume, and anyone who has seen promotional materials or played the game and met the character will likely recognize exactly who she is.
Why did Bioware not go with this Concept - it looks great
Modifié par Dubya75, 17 août 2011 - 05:18 .
bEVEsthda wrote...
I said "squad" not "squad control". And I assumed a familiarity with the term. CoD is a squad game. A squad game is a single char game. But with companions. Your companions follow you around (or not, as the script see fit), but the player has no control over any char but the one and only he plays.
(The big annoying flaw of squad games (single player mode) is that your companions tend to commit suicide asap. This forces the player to adopt tactics that centers around avoiding this. CoD solves the problem by having new squad members spawn.)
Since a decade ago, DA was promised us to be a party control game, in the style of BG or IWD, where the player controls the entire party.
They could go back on that of course, and do whatever. But there are reasons for a party control game. One is that this precise property was very emphatically wanted by the forumites. All kinds of alternatives where discussed, against the backdrop of NWN and KoTOR, but the verdict came down pretty conclusive: No, - exactly like BG, that's what we want.
Another reason is that it adds a dimension of gameplay. Dimensions of gameplay is something BG had a lot of. Those have been gradually removed in Biowares games, as they take step after step backwards, towards the ideals of the arcaic console platformer from the 80'ies.
They've added movies. In other ways they've just steadily been diminishing their games.
Strange? Really? You had a problem with this? But not with having to give instructions in combat?
No problem with that the player char always keep all loot and income for self? Party members getting nothing?
And no problem with never knowing what your character was going to say?
And no problem with... - Oh Myyy God!...
This is a game, right?
But in terms of realism, it's more realistic than not. Your companions would want better equipment. You'd stop at a merchant and go, "look, we should really invest in better protection for X, see here's this nice one for 200gp, expensive but worth it." X: "Ooh, can I really? Oh yes thankyou!"
"And Y need a sword with better bite, look at this." Y: "Oh, that is really, really nice. I've always wanted one of those. But are you really going to pay for that?"
"Yes, yes. It's worth it. Need to have my companions as effective as possible."
A good decision, and one I would like to see them make again.Zanallen wrote...
A unique appearance that Bioware scrapped to allow you to pick and choose what armor she wore, yes.Gunderic wrote...
Ah, I think you're right. But that would make it a unique appearance that I didn't recognize.
Maybe we don't want to. Maybe we have different ideas about who the character is and what she would wear.LiquidGrape wrote...
If we want to respect the integrity of the character, yes there is.
You're assuming that armour is chosen solely for its effectiveness. There could be any number of RP reasons to choose armour, or even just to satisfy the player's aesthetic preferences.Wusword77 wrote...
Steadily diminishing their games is a matter of opinion. I personally feel that equipping companions with different armor isn't a dimension, it's something to satisfy the min/maxers. If you can tell me how you consider choosing full equipment for a companion adds a "dimension" beyond "hey Fenris lives longer now" (meaning beyond just min/maxing companions) please let me know.
The distinctive look (the term iconic look is itself a value judgment) introduces her. Her background is different from the other characters, and you can see it in her clothing. Just as we first meet Leliana wearing chantry robes, but once she's adventuring those are no longer appropriate. And they're no longer approrpiate as determined by us. We're free to decide that she insists on wearing the chantry robes forever, perhaps believing that the Maker will protect her and she doesn't need armour.Why give an inconic look to a character then take it away for the whole game unless you do an optional quest? It's stupid.
Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 17 août 2011 - 08:09 .
Retour en haut
