256 réponses à ce sujet

[esper]

Xewaka wrote...

esper wrote...
I prefer story over gameplay - so I have a pirate on my team who is suppossed to be a dualist I prefer her to be a dualist.
As for the armor. It is the same. Hawke's team is not an army, but a group of friends. It just seems weird if Hawke can dictate their clothing.

The thing is, it's not Hawke doing that. It's the player. The difference is important, yet lost to many.

To me it is Hawke/warden doing it. The companions are not my pc - they are my allies. I can't control them to the most minor detail. I shouldn't be able to control them to the most minor detail. And I try to 'exist' in the world as Hawke/warden/main character as much as gameplay allows for it.

A way I would like to see companion custamization is that instead of stripping death bodies of amour ( a habit many rpg's have that I have always found morbid) is to gain materials instead, and then we could go to the blacksmith/tailor (or whoever makes robe) and ask them to make an armour for the companions. That way you could still stay true to the characters 'taste', but have a higer level of customizing.  

[nitefyre410]

Firky wrote...

True. And Bianca was quite a formidable weapon. (But the lack of bows on warriors was a real pain.)

 

The only bow a warrior should be able use is a crossbow  - I would rather have a warrior that can use  a   Pole- Arm  than a Long Bow. 

[Xewaka]

esper wrote...
To me it is Hawke/warden doing it. The companions are not my pc.

You are given full gameplay control of them. Therefore, they are your player characters as well. From the moment they join the party until they leave it, they are your player characters. How much you choose to deviate from how they've been presented is up to the player. If the player wants to try and respect what he sees as integral part of the character, he is free to do so. If he wants to explore new gameplay posibilities, he should be free to do so as well.

Modifié par Xewaka, 17 août 2011 - 10:33 .

[esper]

Xewaka wrote...

esper wrote...
To me it is Hawke/warden doing it. The companions are not my pc.

You are given full gameplay control of them. Therefore, they are your player characters as well. From the moment they join the party until they leave it, they are yout player characters.

There are just persons following Hawke's lead in battle. Me controlling them is just Hawke/warden shouting order at them. As I say, I try to 'exist' in the world as the main character as much as gameplays allows it.

[Firky]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Firky wrote...

True. And Bianca was quite a formidable weapon. (But the lack of bows on warriors was a real pain.)

 

The only bow a warrior should be able use is a crossbow  - I would rather have a warrior that can use  a   Pole- Arm  than a Long Bow. 

I'm not entirely against some class/character/build restrictions. Sacrifice is a really important part of player choice in RPGs, too. (Not that that would apply to DAII, unless there was some way of choosing weapon proficiency for NPCs.)

For me, any ranged option is a good thing - or possible, mandatory. (Maybe a compromise, like Aveline can use bows because she grew up hunting, but Carver can use a crossbow because his father had one lying around in the basement. Fenris hurls knives because that's how he rolls. I don't know. I'm sure there's some problem with that, too.)

(And, if I'm using Aveline to pepper enemies instead of standing around, avoiding Walking Bomb, an array of arrows/bolts, like Origins.)

You know, I'm finding this thread fascinating reading, because I really would have thought that not fixing armour would have been a "no brainer" but there's a whole spectrum of opinion in here.

[Sylvius the Mad]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Can you decide Fenris likes mages?

Sure.  That would make him quite interesting, as he's constantly talking about how much he dislikes mages.  What would make someone routinely espouse views he doesn't hold?

Can you decide that Fenris wants to go back to Tevinter?

Yes.  He'd make an excellent Freedom Fighter.

Can you decide that your character isn't named Hawke, but Bobbie Jo Flamerider?

Absolutely.  Ish was right, my answer to all three was "yes".

It seems like what you want is actually an RPG-setting sandbox, which Dragon Age is decidedly not.

To some degree, though, it is.  We can already decide that Fenris likes mages, but doesn't say so because he's ashamed of his preferences.

The only content in the game is the stuff we see on the screen.  Nothing else is real unless we, the players, decide to make it real.  We don't see Fenris's preferences on screen.  We see his behaviour, but we can't read his mind to know why he acts as he does.  If we'd like to resolve that ambiguity ourselves, we can do that.

[Il Divo]

Xewaka wrote...

Again: Nothing is preventing you from leaving Isabela the way she is. Enabling changes is not the same as forcing them.

Except game difficulty ruins that wonderful idea. This was a problem in KotOR, especially with non-Jedi party members. Yes, every character had a unique outfit. But consider that those outfits had no stat bonuses attached. Leaving Carth in his base attire vs. giving him Durasteel Armor was a difference of 10 AC, which is very noticeable.

Honestly, Obsidian's KotOR 2 posed the best solution to this problem. Kreia, a main character, possessed a unique outfit. It was possible to equip her with other armors/robes, however her base appearance did not change, which meant that I could fully customize my party members while keeping them unique and without gimping my play style.

Modifié par Il Divo, 17 août 2011 - 11:24 .

[Kileyan]

I'll say it again, picking a companions armor doesn't need to be portrayed in your mind as an overbearing dictator that is demanding to control peoples lives and demeaning them.

Hawke- Wow, this may be the nicest set of elven leather armor that has been seen in Fereldan in a century! Would you make use of this Isabella?

That could go a couple of ways:

-I HATE YOU HAWKE QUIT TRYING TO TELL ME WHAT TO WEAR. I am insulted, you overbearing evil evil man, how dare you offer me a gift!

-or Isabella is impressed and thankful for the gift, and proud to wear it in battle.

I prefer the latter, not only does if fit the game style I want, but it makes more sense to me.

Modifié par Kileyan, 17 août 2011 - 11:22 .

[Kileyan]

Il Divo wrote...

Honestly, Obsidian's KotOR 2 posed the best solution to this problem. Kreia, a main character, possessed a unique outfit. It was possible to equip her with other armors/robes, however her base appearance did not change, which meant that I could fully customize my party members while keeping them unique and without gimping my play style.

Yes this is my favorite compromise. Keep the unique looks, and let me equip them with armor of my choosing.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

Sylvius, you're nit-picking again.  Once you are making Fenris' decisions for him, you will not be happy because a decision is not available for you to choose.

There's a difference between me making the decisions and me choosing which decisions he makes.  I didn't create him.  I'm not responsible for his coherence.

Then you're not going to be happy with his VA, or how his lines are delivered.

I've always held that voice and tone don't matter for dialogue where I'm not in control.  If I were controlling Fenris directly in conversation (for example, if he could act as the party's spokesperson), then I would object to his lines being voiced (just as I do for Hawke), but when Fenris is speaking for himself without my input he's more than welcome to have a voice.

Then you're not going to be happy that you can't make Fenris the main character instead of Hawke.

That's a different issue.  I'm not asking for that right now.

Then you're not going to be happy that the game is in Kirkwall instead of Ferelden, et cetera.

I've said before that I would rather that Hawke could have tried (and failed) to leave Kirkwall, rather than being forced to assert time and time again that she didn't want to leave.   

I think that you are cheating yourself out of a lot of enjoyment because video games simply cannot live up to your standard of customization.  You keep asking devs to compromise with your ideas in making games, but I'm not seeing you willing to compromise how you play them. 

I don't generally ask the devs to do anything they haven't done before.  They haven't done everything I would like to see all in the same game, but I'm not inventing features they haven't used previously.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Kileyan wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Honestly, Obsidian's KotOR 2 posed the best solution to this problem. Kreia, a main character, possessed a unique outfit. It was possible to equip her with other armors/robes, however her base appearance did not change, which meant that I could fully customize my party members while keeping them unique and without gimping my play style.

Yes this is my favorite compromise. Keep the unique looks, and let me equip them with armor of my choosing.

This is actually what we were told DA2 would be (Mike Laidlaw said in a chat that the appearances would be fixed, but we'd be able to equip items and affect their statistics "like in DAO").  While I would prefer to have the ability to change their appearance as well (just as I would prefer to have the option to keep Hawke's appearance fixed without gimping him), being able to equip regular gear as we see fit would be significantly better than what DA2 actually offers.

[Sylvius the Mad]

esper wrote...

To me it is Hawke/warden doing it. The companions are not my pc - they are my allies.

No, they're the PC's allies.  That's the mistake you're making.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Kileyan wrote...

I'll say it again, picking a companions armor doesn't need to be portrayed in your mind as an overbearing dictator that is demanding to control peoples lives and demeaning them.

Hawke- Wow, this may be the nicest set of elven leather armor that has been seen in Fereldan in a century! Would you make use of this Isabella?

That could go a couple of ways:

-I HATE YOU HAWKE QUIT TRYING TO TELL ME WHAT TO WEAR. I am insulted, you overbearing evil evil man, how dare you offer me a gift!

-or Isabella is impressed and thankful for the gift, and proud to wear it in battle.

I prefer the latter, not only does if fit the game style I want, but it makes more sense to me.

Also, it could be that Isabela sees the armour and chooses to wear it entirely on her own without Hawke having to say anything.  That the player does something doesn't necessarily mean that Hawke did it.

This is how we're able to control Isabela in battle even when Hawke is unconscious.  Hawke isn't shouting orders then.  Shouting orders should also break stealth, shouldn't it?

[Il Divo]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...


This is actually what we were told DA2 would be (Mike Laidlaw said in a chat that the appearances would be fixed, but we'd be able to equip items and affect their statistics "like in DAO").  While I would prefer to have the ability to change their appearance as well (just as I would prefer to have the option to keep Hawke's appearance fixed without gimping him), being able to equip regular gear as we see fit would be significantly better than what DA2 actually offers.

Glad to see I wasn't just going crazy, since I did remember a pretty long thread about that point. I'm curious as to what happened to that feature.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Il Divo wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...


This is actually what we were told DA2 would be (Mike Laidlaw said in a chat that the appearances would be fixed, but we'd be able to equip items and affect their statistics "like in DAO").  While I would prefer to have the ability to change their appearance as well (just as I would prefer to have the option to keep Hawke's appearance fixed without gimping him), being able to equip regular gear as we see fit would be significantly better than what DA2 actually offers.

Glad to see I wasn't just going crazy, since I did remember a pretty long thread about that point. I'm curious as to what happened to that feature.

I don't think it was ever there.  I think Mike incorrectly identified the ability to make minor statistical adjustments as being equivalent in gameplay terms to being able to make dramatic changes in combat effectiveness.

[Il Divo]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...


I don't think it was ever there.  I think Mike incorrectly identified the ability to make minor statistical adjustments as being equivalent in gameplay terms to being able to make dramatic changes in combat effectiveness.

So what he was really referring to were the embellishment items, like belts, rings, and amulets? Well, that's pretty weak, comparatively speaking. I did miss Origin's level of party customization.

On a separate note, I do like the idea of being able to give the PC a fixed outfit, while still allowing stat customization. A toggle system could easily be implemented for this.

Modifié par Il Divo, 17 août 2011 - 11:44 .

[GodWood]

Origins system was better

[Morroian]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

This is actually what we were told DA2 would be (Mike Laidlaw said in a chat that the appearances would be fixed, but we'd be able to equip items and affect their statistics "like in DAO").  

I'm confused, isn't this what we got? The items being rings, belts etc.

[Serpieri Nei]

FieryDove wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

Considering this is a "role playing" game, do you take the same approach with your friends in real life, chasing them around trying to dress them in something you approve of?

I see this gets brought up a lot. I don't know anyone who goes around fighting DS, HD's and gang after gang in real life.

I would compare it more to being in the armed forces than telling a friend what to wear. If a member of the unit decides to wear a pink tutu in a sortie not only will they get themselves killed but the other team members as well.

If people really go around fighting gangs with friends then maybe they would tell them to wear a Kevlar vest and invest in a gun and put away the dagger since the other gang members all have guns. Or I guess we could say heh your iconic leather jacket and bowie knife will scare them to death. I don't think so but whatever.


Real life vs. fantasy arguments never fair well.

Yeah...Sorry Varric, Isabella - if you plan on fighting dragons with us - you might want to put some protective pants on.

[Il Divo]

Morroian wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

This is actually what we were told DA2 would be (Mike Laidlaw said in a chat that the appearances would be fixed, but we'd be able to equip items and affect their statistics "like in DAO").  

I'm confused, isn't this what we got? The items being rings, belts etc.

Not quite. From what I remember, Laidlaw's comments indicated that we would still be able to customize party member stats to the same extent, however appearance would remain unchanged.

Ex: I could equip Aveline with plate armor or with leather armor, which would affect her stats but she would still have the same appearance seen in-game. At least, that was the theory.

Modifié par Il Divo, 17 août 2011 - 11:46 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Dormiglione wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Change companion armor all you want, so long as they don't end up looking like clones of each other. What I have a problem with is someone demanding the right to changing something fundamental to a character like Jack's tattoos, which I honestly believe are an important part of who she is as a person.

And why should that be wrong? If someone likes that all party member have the same look than let it be. Its his/her own decision.
Plus, the only ones who have this restriction are console player like me. While PC Player have their mods to customize the appearance, the console player has to deal with the restriction.

I'm going to use bullet points now because I evidently have to write in excruciating detail or people will misinterpret what I'm saying:

• The main issue I was arguing with Sylvius over this whole time is the fact that he didn't like Jack's tattoos and feels that he should have some sort of option to screw around with them in all kinds of ways, like removing Jack's tattoos (as he did by modding them out), when the tattoos are a fundamental part of her history and her nature. Things like the character's design should be sacrosanct if you ask me, not subject to the player's whims by default in the game just because he someone has a personal bias against tattoos.
• So, you highlighted what I said? Well, here's what I meant: I was effectively endorsing that companions SHOULD be able to wear any armor (within class restrictions), e.g., that they should be able to swap different pieces in and out at the player's discretion. I think the whole "Change companion armor all you want" thing was clear.
• At the same time, I was ALSO expressing my personal distate for seeing multiple characters dressed exactly the same and looking like they belong in Attack of the Clones instead of being individuals - as far as armor goes.
• To expand on the previous bullet point: multiple kinds of armor in DA:O looked exactly the same despite having different names and were NOT unique. Therefore, I had my rogue, Leliana & bloody Zevran looking exactly the same.
• Expressing my personal preference for NOT looking like a clone does not translate to me saying that it's wrong for other people to do so. If people want to look like they jumped out of the same growth vat, I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying that for me, personally, I just don't enjoy it, OKAY?

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 18 août 2011 - 12:09 .

[Atakuma]

Il Divo wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

This is actually what we were told DA2 would be (Mike Laidlaw said in a chat that the appearances would be fixed, but we'd be able to equip items and affect their statistics "like in DAO").  

I'm confused, isn't this what we got? The items being rings, belts etc.

Not quite. From what I remember, Laidlaw's comments indicated that we would still be able to customize party member stats to the same extent, however appearance would remain unchanged.

Ex: I could equip Aveline with plate armor or with leather armor, which would affect her stats but she would still have the same appearance seen in-game. At least, that was the theory.

He said nothing like that. He made it clear that you could change accessories and equip runes, but nothing about armor.

[Il Divo]

Atakuma wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

This is actually what we were told DA2 would be (Mike Laidlaw said in a chat that the appearances would be fixed, but we'd be able to equip items and affect their statistics "like in DAO").  

I'm confused, isn't this what we got? The items being rings, belts etc.

Not quite. From what I remember, Laidlaw's comments indicated that we would still be able to customize party member stats to the same extent, however appearance would remain unchanged.

Ex: I could equip Aveline with plate armor or with leather armor, which would affect her stats but she would still have the same appearance seen in-game. At least, that was the theory.

He said nothing like that. He made it clear that you could change accessories and equip runes, but nothing about armor.

That's just what I remember. If I had the actual thread in front of me, this would be much easier.

[willholt]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...





I'm going to use bullet points now because I evidently have to write in excruciating detail or people will misinterpret what I'm saying:

• The main issue I was arguing with Sylvius over this whole time is the fact that he didn't like Jack's tattoos and feels that he should have some sort of option to screw around with them in all kinds of ways, like removing Jack's tattoos (as he did by modding them out), when the tattoos are a fundamental part of her history and her nature. Things like that the character's design should be sacrosanct if you ask me, not subject to the player's whims by default in the game just because he someone has a personal bias against tattoos.
• So, you highlighted what I said? Well, here's what I meant: I was effectively endorsing that companions SHOULD be able to wear any armor (within class restrictions), e.g., that they should be able to swap different pieces in and out at the player's discretion. I think the whole "Change companion armor all you want" thing was clear.
• At the same time, I was ALSO expressing my personal distate for seeing multiple characters dressed exactly the same and looking like they belong in Attack of the Clones instead of being individuals - as far as armor goes.
• To expand on the previous bullet point: multiple kinds of armor in DA:O looked exactly the same despite having different names and were NOT unique. Therefore, I had my rogue, Leliana & bloody Zevran looking exactly the same (plus my rogue).
• Expressing my personal preference for NOT looking like a clone does not translate to me saying that it's wrong for other people to do so. If people want to look like they jumped out of the same growth vat, I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying that for me, personally, I just don't enjoy it, OKAY?

I only wish other people would share your viewpoint. To desire something to be the case, while respecting that others might desire it differently. Unfortunately some seem to be asking for the unique looking companions while wishing to prevent others from having an alternative.
[*]
[*]
I applaud your viewpoint, and your reasonable manner...and you have my respect for it.

[Sengoku no Maou]

I'm still a wee bit miffed over the change, but I've begrudgingly accepted it as the direction BioWare wants to go.