Rocket_Man77 wrote...
true. but there are millions and millions of black people who were persecuted. There are not even that close, to the number of homosexuals. and still homosexuals are not persecuted. they aren't here in Little Rock. I see managers that are homosexuals. they are not aggresively persecuted. You sure didn't see black people as managers in the 60's.
Modifié par alek2702, 17 août 2011 - 01:58 .
IsaacShep wrote...
Don't try to make it a contest who had/has worse, because you know homosexuals have gone through **** too. Different ****, still ****. Different thing to be hated for (visible skin color vs. invisible sexual orientation), same place where the hatred comes from - lack of logic, irrationality, feeling of superiority.Made Nightwing wrote...
BTW: For someone to disagree with a person's sexuality has nothing to do with racism, and don't insult those who were and are discriminated against because of their skin colour by claiming your plight is anything like what there's was like. Homosexuals are not underpaid, forbidden from riding in buses, going into 'white's only' bars or even banned from voting.
I don't care if it's one person or a trillion people. A single person getting beaten to death because of something they can't control is awful.Rocket_Man77 wrote...
alek2702 wrote...
Rocket_Man77 wrote...
alek2702 wrote...
Rocket_Man77 wrote...
who said I was intimidated by anyone? also, you really shouldn't bring race and sexual orientation into the same category. Black people were literally killed and persecuted, just because of there skin color. homosexual haven't gone through anything like that.
Many gay people were and still are " literally killed and persecuted".
I live in Arkansas. I live in the bible belt. I have never read about such a thing in the "Arkansas Democrat Gazette." your point is weak
The world is a bit bigger than Arkansas, you know...
true. but there are millions and millions of black people who were persecuted. There are not even that close, to the number of homosexuals. and still homosexuals are not persecuted. they aren't here in Little Rock. I see managers that are homosexuals. they are not aggresively persecuted. You sure didn't see black people as managers in the 60's.
Rocket_Man77 wrote...
please name these developers for me. I'm dying to count them all.
Rocket_Man77 wrote...
alek2702 wrote...
Rocket_Man77 wrote...
alek2702 wrote...
Rocket_Man77 wrote...
who said I was intimidated by anyone? also, you really shouldn't bring race and sexual orientation into the same category. Black people were literally killed and persecuted, just because of there skin color. homosexual haven't gone through anything like that.
Many gay people were and still are " literally killed and persecuted".
I live in Arkansas. I live in the bible belt. I have never read about such a thing in the "Arkansas Democrat Gazette." your point is weak
The world is a bit bigger than Arkansas, you know...
true. but there are millions and millions of black people who were persecuted. There are not even that close, to the number of homosexuals. and still homosexuals are not persecuted. they aren't here in Little Rock. I see managers that are homosexuals. they are not aggresively persecuted. You sure didn't see black people as managers in the 60's.
We don't. We only think so little of you straight people who spend so much time whining about this.Never done that to any man in my life, regardless of his race or sexual orientation. If I stay out of someone's bedroom and game (I'm not screaming that all the homosexuality should be removed from ME3 and that Bioware should rot in hell), then why can't they stay out of mine? You seem to be big on equal rights.
When gays are regularly lynched, financially disadvantaged and deprived of their God-given rights as human beings, then you can say that the homosexual bigotry issue is even in the same category as racial bigotry. I don't consider myself some kind of master over any homosexual in the world, and I'm insulted that you think so little of the majority of straight people.
Made Nightwing wrote...
IsaacShep wrote...
Don't try to make it a contest who had/has worse, because you know homosexuals have gone through **** too. Different ****, still ****. Different thing to be hated for (visible skin color vs. invisible sexual orientation), same place where the hatred comes from - lack of logic, irrationality, feeling of superiority.Made Nightwing wrote...
BTW: For someone to disagree with a person's sexuality has nothing to do with racism, and don't insult those who were and are discriminated against because of their skin colour by claiming your plight is anything like what there's was like. Homosexuals are not underpaid, forbidden from riding in buses, going into 'white's only' bars or even banned from voting.
Never done that to any man in my life, regardless of his race or sexual orientation. If I stay out of someone's bedroom and game (I'm not screaming that all the homosexuality should be removed from ME3 and that Bioware should rot in hell), then why can't they stay out of mine? You seem to be big on equal rights.
When gays are regularly lynched, financially disadvantaged and deprived of their God-given rights as human beings, then you can say that the homosexual bigotry issue is even in the same category as racial bigotry. I don't consider myself some kind of master over any homosexual in the world, and I'm insulted that you think so little of the majority of straight people.
Modifié par Rocket_Man77, 17 août 2011 - 02:00 .
Believe it or not, gay people were also around in the 60s, and they too would be routinely denied employment if their sexuality was exposed. That's like saying that, gee, because black people can be managers now, they were never discriminated against in the past!Rocket_Man77 wrote...
true. but there are millions and millions of black people who were persecuted. There are not even that close, to the number of homosexuals. and still homosexuals are not persecuted. they aren't here in Little Rock. I see managers that are homosexuals. they are not aggresively persecuted. You sure didn't see black people as managers in the 60's.
Evidently, you aren't one of them....:innocent:Rocket_Man77 wrote...
Made Nightwing wrote...
IsaacShep wrote...
Don't try to make it a contest who had/has worse, because you know homosexuals have gone through **** too. Different ****, still ****. Different thing to be hated for (visible skin color vs. invisible sexual orientation), same place where the hatred comes from - lack of logic, irrationality, feeling of superiority.Made Nightwing wrote...
BTW: For someone to disagree with a person's sexuality has nothing to do with racism, and don't insult those who were and are discriminated against because of their skin colour by claiming your plight is anything like what there's was like. Homosexuals are not underpaid, forbidden from riding in buses, going into 'white's only' bars or even banned from voting.
Never done that to any man in my life, regardless of his race or sexual orientation. If I stay out of someone's bedroom and game (I'm not screaming that all the homosexuality should be removed from ME3 and that Bioware should rot in hell), then why can't they stay out of mine? You seem to be big on equal rights.
When gays are regularly lynched, financially disadvantaged and deprived of their God-given rights as human beings, then you can say that the homosexual bigotry issue is even in the same category as racial bigotry. I don't consider myself some kind of master over any homosexual in the world, and I'm insulted that you think so little of the majority of straight people.
Made knightwing you are exactly correct. glad to see that some people in hear have a brain.
Modifié par MACharlie1, 17 août 2011 - 02:02 .
Made Nightwing wrote...
When gays are regularly lynched, financially disadvantaged and deprived of their God-given rights as human beings, then you can say that the homosexual bigotry issue is even in the same category as racial bigotry. I don't consider myself some kind of master over any homosexual in the world, and I'm insulted that you think so little of the majority of straight people.
But... but... they are. See here, again.Made Nightwing wrote...
When gays are regularly lynched, financially disadvantaged and deprived of their God-given rights as human beings, then you can say that the homosexual bigotry issue is even in the same category as racial bigotry. I don't consider myself some kind of master over any homosexual in the world, and I'm insulted that you think so little of the majority of straight people.
ipgd wrote...
I explained why it offends me.Davie McG wrote...
ipgd wrote...
Setting the physical appearance of Shepard is not the same as setting an option to crystalize his or her sexual orientation and shut off any romance dialogue for same sex characters when playing a straight Shepard, nor is being able to choose Shepard's race equivalent to an option to shut off any romance dialogue for Jacob when playing a white Shepard.Davie McG wrote...
The race thing already is toggled, I think my use of the word toggle in my post was perhaps incorrect. What I mean to say is that you select your sexuality at the begining, just like you select your eye colour and skin colour and name and all that stuff.
I'm not insinuating people can choose their sexuality either as I also stated in my first post. Just that at the begining of the game you have the oppertunity to make a bisexual character or a straight one or a homosexual one, just like you decide which ethnicity or gender you wish to play as.
Regardless, the functionality of it is not the inherent problem -- it is that its inclusion would be motivated solely by a desire to accommodate people who are prejudiced against homosexuality, which is unacceptable. An option to set Shepard's sexuality is such a functionally inconsequential change from the actual implementation of the same decisions in ME1 and 2 (i.e. you choose your Shepard's orientation by not sleeping with characters (s)he is not interested in) that it almost entirely boils down to a matter of intent, to spare people who are bothered by it the discomfort of even having to see same-sex romance dialogue on the wheel, and sending a message that legitimizes their concerns and implies that prejudice should be accommodated is not something Bioware wants to be doing.
Really, it is not that hard to understand how this is offensive and if you are really concerned with not offending people you should be able to see how this is not in any way a solution. The solution to prejudice is exposure, not concession and accommodation.
I must fail to agree when it comes to exposure being a solution to prejudice, but that's a whole other story.
I think if you were to be offended by the option that I described, I just don't see how you could be, if you want the option to romance both males and females then it would be easy to create a bisexual character. It would accommodate everyone, and to me it's the only one that does.
If you feel differently then that's fine, but that's just my opinion.
Edit: forgot a word, idiotic I know but it happens.
You can already choose whether your Shepard is straight, gay or bisexual by pursuing or not pursuing LIs of either sex. Implementing an option at character creation would not change this at all; it would simply move the option from the dialogue with the LIs to the character creation screen. Functionally, there is practically no difference whatsoever.
Which means the only reason it would exist would be to cater to people who are bothered by homosexuality. And for Bioware to implicitly say "it's okay that seeing queer people in video games makes you uncomfortable, so we've devoted resources to being conscientious of your opinion and accommodating it". Which is offensive, because I do not think it is an acceptable opinion to be offended by the existence of gay people and I do not think it is an acceptable measure to allow an option to hide away all associated content in order to spare the discomfort of people who do not even have to explore that content to begin with. I do not think it is acceptable for Bioware to actively condone such prejudice by specifically catering to this group.
This is the statement they would be making by implementing such a toggle, and this statement would be offensive. If you still don't get it, just take my word for it that a great many of LGBT people and supporters would essentially agree with me. This is unarguably an offensive suggestion for a certain group of people, whom you may not personally belong to, but I can confirm that they do, in fact, exist. So, no, your argument does not have any grounds to stand on from a position of attempting to avoid offending people when possible, because fact, there are a great many people who would be just as offended by your suggested solution. All this does is move the offense from one group of people to another, and why do they have special privilege in the 'less offense' department?
Modifié par Davie McG, 17 août 2011 - 02:04 .
I won't even bother discussing this with anymore until you get basic facts and knowledge:Made Nightwing wrote...
When gays are regularly lynched, financially disadvantaged and deprived of their God-given rights as human beings, then you can say that the homosexual bigotry issue is even in the same category as racial bigotry.
I wasn't talking about you lol. I was talking about the same places where discrimination against black people and homosexual people come from in people's minds.Made Nightwing wrote...
I don't consider myself some kind of master over any homosexual in the world, and I'm insulted that you think so little of the majority of straight people.
I'm not proposing to remain civilized for long. Also, financial and cultural discrimination is still tolerated, just in a more quiet manner and more regionally.Made Nightwing wrote...
Who says I'm whining about anything? Just discussing stuff on an internet forum. Saying someone is whining is not a legitimate debating tactic...in most civilised areas of debate.
Countries like Pakistan, that deny basic human rights, are condemned by every other country and religion in the world. Violence against LGBT is not tolerated by civilization, nor will it ever be tolerated. Nor will financially disadvanaging someone because of their sexuality be tolerated, like racial bigotry was tolerated and encouraged in the past by a 'civilized' country.
Made Nightwing wrote...
Countries like Pakistan, that deny basic human rights, are condemned by every other country and religion in the world. Violence against LGBT is not tolerated by civilization, nor will it ever be tolerated. Nor will financially disadvanaging someone because of their sexuality be tolerated, like racial bigotry was tolerated and encouraged in the past by a 'civilized' country.
Rocket_Man77 wrote...
If I was eleven, then I must be pretty Damn smart to know about America's past.
Just admit it. You are trying to say that homosexuals were treated just as badly as black people. Were homosexuals ever slaves? Please answer.
Made Nightwing wrote...
When gays are regularly lynched, financially disadvantaged and deprived of their God-given rights as human beings, then you can say that the homosexual bigotry issue is even in the same category as racial bigotry. I don't consider myself some kind of master over any homosexual in the world, and I'm insulted that you think so little of the majority of straight people.
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