708 réponses à ce sujet

[Warlocomotf]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

In many peoples eyes Cerberus is useless,or at the very least it is too dangerous to give them the base.

Those people are blind.

The krogan have never been terribly useful, Cerberus however has been invaluable.

I don't see Cerberus as useless, I see Cerberus as conflicting with my own believes on many points. That said, they do recognize the reapers as a threat-- mind you they have a fairly large portion of data to this point, data that they appear to have neglected to share with others (Which is actually hurting our safety IMO)

[Saaziel]

Seboist wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lol Marshall,one of your rare mistakes and people jump all over you.

Marshall is a strong Cerberus blood brother. He can take it.

If it wasn't for You Seb, and Marshall , i would have thought the Cerberus brotherhood to be a lost cause.

Stay strong.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Sovereigns shields seem almost impenetrable...war ships guns seeming not to make so much as a dent....but Sheps pea shooters can break through Sarens shields...Saren seems more of a weakness than a strength to Sovereign at this point....as once Saren's resurrected body is destroyed, so too are Sovereigns shields.

If Saren was the size of a dreadnought I doubt Shepard's pea-shooter would be able to dent his shields.

Which would make sense...if Saren was Dreadnought sized....I just think Sovereign took a hell of a gamble with that move with Saren...and maybe that is why Sovereign did lose.

[marshalleck]

Logical Escape wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

The IFF didn't hijack anything; it just started broadcasting its location, which the Collectors picked up. 

There was evidence to suggest that the Collector cruiser was one of a kind. At some point EDI does mention that Shepard keeps encountering the same one over and over. It's the only vessel to disengage from the base. Prior to the suicide mission, the team and EDI analyze scans of the Collector base. I can only assume that since nothing is ever mentioned about any other Collectors or any other cruisers, that there are none.  Regardless, if you blow up the base you'll never know there are more out there until they start attacking colonies again, or choose to make themselves known in some way. If they do attack the base, at least it's happening in the center of the galaxy, far away from human colonies. I think this point is pretty much a wash.

Not only did it broadcast the location, it also hijacked the normandy.  The thrusters were offline and EDI had to be manually plugged in to the AI core for the ship to be operational again.

One particularly cruiser dogged Shepard, but that's not evidence that the whole of the collectors population only had one cruiser.  And because the Collector Base scan turned up empty doesn't mean that there weren't other Collectors out there.  As I said, don't meta-game.  There was no way for Shepard to be sure that the galaxy was free of collectors, or that they couldn't get to the base before Cerberus, or that they couldn't overpower Cerberus if Cerberus got there first.  Or that Cerberus wouldn't succumb to indoctrination from the reaper tech on board.  There were many risks in that scenario too.

I'm not meta-gaming at all. Over the course of two years, the only data anyone had all pointed to there being only one cruiser. If there were more cruisers on the base, or more docking bays for cruisers which were vacated--hence indicating the possibility of more Collectors at a remote location, a "lights are on but nobody's home" scenario--you'd think someone would have said something. 

You're right, I can't prove that something doesn't exist. That's a logical fallacy, don't think I won't recognize it. However, all the evidence I have points to a certain interpretation and I have nothing pointing to yours, so I'm still confident in the decision. And as I said before, while it is a risk, it's much less than just blowing up the base, crossing your fingers, and assuming everything will turn out just peachy because you did the "moral" thing.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Warlocomotf wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

In many peoples eyes Cerberus is useless,or at the very least it is too dangerous to give them the base.

Those people are blind.

The krogan have never been terribly useful, Cerberus however has been invaluable.

I don't see Cerberus as useless, I see Cerberus as conflicting with my own believes on many points. That said, they do recognize the reapers as a threat-- mind you they have a fairly large portion of data to this point, data that they appear to have neglected to share with others (Which is actually hurting our safety IMO)

I probably shouldn't have used useless,it isn't my POV on them,but it was the simplest means to an end,actually should have said incompotent,which is the big buzzword about them.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 17 août 2011 - 05:50 .

[marshalleck]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lol Marshall,one of your rare mistakes and people jump all over you.

Hardly anything of consequence. I'm not sweating it. Installing the IFF on the Normandy was a rush job anyways; that doesn't mean every single time a crew attempts to use reverse-engineered IFF technology their ship is going to go all HAL 9000 on them. Glitches were found, and expunged. That's beta testing for you.

Modifié par marshalleck, 17 août 2011 - 05:59 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

"you can't meta-game but I can."

[ObserverStatus]

In my experience being Renegade means "taking less risks" while being Paragon means "taking more risks". I have characters of both alignments, and am waiting to see which of Paragon Shepard's gambles will pay off.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Which would make sense...if Saren was Dreadnought sized....I just think Sovereign took a hell of a gamble with that move with Saren...and maybe that is why Sovereign did lose.

Well its choice may have been this:

Sit here and be destroyed because the relay won't be opened in time

OR

Attack Shepard, kill him, use the Saren avatar to get back into the master control unit and open the relay before you get blown up


Tell me, which of those two options offers the best (only) chance of victory?

Point made...I stand corrected....I had kind of assumed Sovereign was far enough in that it could open the relay itself from that point.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 17 août 2011 - 05:56 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...
narcassist

Did you seriously just call someone else that?

[Logical Escape]

marshalleck wrote...

I'm not meta-gaming at all. Over the course of two years, the only data anyone had all pointed to there being only one cruiser. If there were more cruisers on the base, or more docking bays for cruisers which were vacated--hence indicating the possibility of more Collectors at a remote location, a "lights are on but nobody's home" scenario--you'd think someone would have said something. 

You're right, I can't prove that something doesn't exist. That's a logical fallacy, don't think I won't recognize it. However, all the evidence I have points to a certain interpretation and I have nothing pointing to yours, so I'm still confident in the decision. And as I said before, while it is a risk, it's much less than just blowing up the base, crossing your fingers, and assuming everything will turn out just peachy because you did the "moral" thing.

Unfortunately, you have a rudimentary grasp of logic, and like the adage goes, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.  Asking people to prove a negative isn't a logical fallacy.  Asking them to prove a metaphysical or abstract negative is.  If I want to prove that I'm not wearing any purple, I simply need to point to every article of clothing and demonstrate how none of it is purple.

Where is the "data" demonstrating that there is only one cruiser?  The only time "data" is represented in the game was that the same cruiser attacked Normandy v1, abducted colonists from Horizon, and was the derelict cruiser "trap."  Beyond that, there is no evidence that there is only one collector cruiser.  And none of the evidence is proof-positive.

Furthermore, the collectors are so mysterious that most of the galaxy believes that they're a myth.  Cerberus discovers the location of one collector base/homeworld, and that means it's safe to assume that if they take that one base out, there will be no other collectors out there?  Even if it turns out to be true, that's a huge logical leap.

Finally, there's a human-reaper embryo and tons of reaper tech in the collector base.  Nearly every attempt to research reaper technology has led to people being indoctrinated.  The last thing you need is to fight through a horde of husks and slaves to get to the mission objective.

[ObserverStatus]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
narcassist

Did you seriously just call someone else that?

I think it's usually only spelled with only one "a".

Modifié par bobobo878, 17 août 2011 - 05:58 .

[Warlocomotf]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Warlocomotf wrote...

I don't see Cerberus as useless, I see Cerberus as conflicting with my own believes on many points.

I suppose it is only natural that a narcassist would rather doom the galaxy than make compromises with their own beliefs.

Bravo.

What now? I'm the opposite. I value you, me, Salarians, Quarians, Turians, Asari- and more or less all the rest. Additionally if anything, Cerberus believes are hell of a lot more narcissistic than... Well what mostly the whole rest of the galaxy thinks.

Also, I don't doom the galaxy. As I said I have good, rational explanations for all my in-game decisions.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Ferris95 wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
narcassist

Did you seriously just call someone else that?

I think it's usually only spelled with only one "a".

Not when he spells it.

Gosh,newbies, don't you know saphra doesn't actually have to be right ,to be right?

Gosh...

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Pro-human (renegade) is beyond your narrow comprehension!

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I love when you say something to Saphra that makes sense it goes completely over Her or him or whatever...or you just  get insulted.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 17 août 2011 - 06:07 .

[Saaziel]

marshalleck wrote...

Over the course of two years, the only data anyone had all pointed to there being only one cruiser. If there were more cruisers on the base, or more docking bays for cruisers which were vacated--hence indicating the possibility of more Collectors at a remote location, a "lights are on but nobody's home" scenario--you'd think someone would have said something.

Shep only encountered one ship , but that could easily be explained by the Collectors building a Sheppard-kill team. It follows that you'd encounter that ship more often then not.

Similarly if i were to be on a FBI list , I'd have a Team dedicated to that. It ,by no means , limits the FBI only to those people.

Moreover we only have 1/2 the View of the Base , its hard to evaluate what the scan picked up.

marshalleck wrote...
And as I said before, while it is a risk, it's much less than just blowing up the base, crossing your fingers, and assuming everything will turn out just peachy because you did the "moral" thing.

Two things :I keep hearing that Renegade options minimize risk , is this an exception ? I suppose its a matter of what you consider risky , isn't it ?

Secondly : Destroying the base doesn't imply a lethargic approach at defeating the Reapers. Even in that case , It would be near Meta-gaming to assume that Shep has anything to do with defeating the Reaper fleet. For all intents and purposes ,any one else in that universe could be instrumental at that...

It simply wouldn't be a good game to play to have some random NPC save the day.

Modifié par Saaziel, 17 août 2011 - 06:07 .

[Logical Escape]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Renegade option reduces the chance of no future, and that is what is important. It is better to avoid the worst possible outcome than to hope for the best.

Where?  As I mentioned, the renegade option for Tali, Miranda, Jacob's, Thane's, and Jack's loyalty missions don't do anything to reduce the chance of no future.  In some cases, they're actually the ILLOGICAL choice.  That disproves your argument that the renegade reduces the chance of no future.  It only reduces the chance in SOME cases.

Saphra Deden wrote...

More importantly, I don't give a ****.

Wonderful response.  I suppose I can just "not give a ****" whenever you come up with some half-substantiated, unproved BS.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Politics is something best left to the Alliance anyway. Right now my concern is the Collectors, not relations with the quarians.

Something this short-sighted is, in fact, very illogical and carries on more risks.  Again, this is basic cost-benefit analysis.  You ALREADY HAVE the security footage.  What more do you expect to gain from poking Veetor?  Do you really believe that Veetor had a lunch date with Harbinger?  You're risking alienation of the quarian fleet for a miniscule chance of gaining anything useful.

Saphra Deden wrote...

There is risk with either option, but only my way offers the possibility of reducing risk in the future. Knowledge will dispel danger.

Then destroying the cure for the genophage would be destroying knowledge, and thus illogical.  You can't even keep your own argument straight.

Saphra Deden wrote...

You are starting to ****** me off. I've explained what I meant by "Renegades are more logical" to you already.

Except you're wrong.  Those decisions don't "reduce the risk of no future".  Some of them actually increase them (very incrementally, but they do).

Saphra Deden wrote...

Which devalues it even more. Thank you for pointing this out.

And?  It's knowledge and it has value.  Destroying the cure for the genophage accomplishes nothing.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Regarding Samara, I have already explained why her oath does not make her less dangerous.

Really?  A justicar that is obligated to listen to you is not less dangerous than a rampaging killer that's trying to seduce and kill you?

You've got to be joking with me.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sure I can.

Yes, and appear illogical in the process.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Yes. Secondly, I never treated the crew like crap.

Uhh no.  They don't have to be sacrificed.  In fact, it's very easy to rescue all of them.  The Normandy has the best crew in the galaxy.  Sacrificing them is erasing decades of space-faring experience.  That's just plain stupid.

And I don't give a damn if you treated the crew like crap or not.  The renegade option (e.g. the option you claim limits the risk for no future) does treat them like crap.  So again, your logic is unfounded.

Modifié par Logical Escape, 17 août 2011 - 06:08 .