708 réponses à ce sujet

[Zu Long]

Luc0s wrote...

Ugh I get sick and tired of Renegades claiming their logic is superior and that Paragon players are just meta-gaming goody-goody dumb-asses.

And I also get sick of the "houlier than thou" attitude of some Paragon players.


Can't we just all admit that we all have OUR OWN logic and that EACH option, be it paragon or renegade, is so far EQUAL?


So you want to be a ruthless "results at all cost" type of soldier who doesn't get morality in the way? Cool! Then Renegade is the path for you!

So you want to be a diplomatic charmer who tries to find alternative solutions than ruthless guns-blazing efficienty? Awesome! Then the Paragon path is for you!


When will you people finally learn that there is no "better" path? There is only "diplomatic negotiator" (Paragon) and "ruthless problem-solver" (Renegade). Sometimes the first is the best option, sometimes the second is the best option, but overall they're both EQUAL.

But if we admitted all of that, what would we argue about?

[KotorEffect3]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

MacCready wrote...

Put your question in real life terms, for example, change pro-human to pro-white. Are you a paragon? No, you are a dick!

How about pro-American, or pro-Western in general? I think that's more accurate. Am I still a dick?

Yes

Not to get political but anti-americanism pisses me off.

 Good job I am not anti-America..

 I was saying that if someone thinks that pro-human doesn't equate to racism, but rather patriotism, then when pursued at the expense of those outside of your loyalty group it still doesn't seem justified

Ok sorry then, I actualy agree with what you are saying.  Ok back to in game universe which is more important than the real world anyway:p

[Arppis]

marshalleck wrote...

Arppis wrote...


You might stop and count your bullets while others get killed (or something). It is after all lives of your allies you are talking about here.

I'd stop and count bullets if knowing how much ammo I have is somehow a condition for achieving the objective. I don't know how that makes sense, but then, it's your example not mine. 

And holding back forces isn't done for the sake of saving lives--it's for bringing as much firepower to bear on Sovereign at one time as is possible to achieve. When the Fleet's morale starts shaking and Hackett has to issue the order to maintain position, continue to take losses and stay in the fight with Sovereign he's making the right call. 

Yeh, bad example is bad. Sorry about that. But basicaly ment, that it is not a smart option to not help your allies. And I do hope that if players didn't stop and help council, other races would be harder or impossible to rally to help earth. "Well, you didn't care to help us back then, why should we help you?".


...But ofcourse the game doesn't punish Renegade players at all.

Modifié par Arppis, 17 août 2011 - 01:48 .

[KotorEffect3]

Arppis wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Arppis wrote...


You might stop and count your bullets while others get killed (or something). It is after all lives of your allies you are talking about here.

I'd stop and count bullets if knowing how much ammo I have is somehow a condition for achieving the objective. I don't know how that makes sense, but then, it's your example not mine. 

And holding back forces isn't done for the sake of saving lives--it's for bringing as much firepower to bear on Sovereign at one time as is possible to achieve. When the Fleet's morale starts shaking and Hackett has to issue the order to maintain position, continue to take losses and stay in the fight with Sovereign he's making the right call. 

Yeh, bad example is bad. Sorry about that. But basicaly ment, that it is not a smart option to not help your allies. And I do hope that if players didn't stop and help council, other races would be harder or impossible to rally to help earth. "Well, you didn't care to help us back then, why should we help you?".


...But ofcourse the game doesn't punish Renegade players at all.

I really hope the citadel races gives the renegades the old "f you"

[lovgreno]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Ugh I get sick and tired of Renegades claiming their logic is superior and that Paragon players are just meta-gaming goody-goody dumb-asses.

The truth won't go away just because you hate it.

It must be nice to know the only possibly true way to see things. And it's funny that it's always self styled "renegades" that claims that they are always right and that what they generalise as paragons are always wrong and stupid. I have never heard the opposite actualy.

Anyway I thought the point of the renegade/paragon function of the game was that in a hard and complicated reality there are always another way to see things. But that is how I choose to see it of course, if someone else feels more comfortable with a different way to see it who am I to deny them that?

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

I bet you didn't even read the rest of my original comment did you? You just saw the first line and you just HAD to post comment, didn't you?

I read the rest of it but I decided the first part was the most satisfying part to respond to.

I'll tell you this: I won't admit that both sides are equal because THEY ARE NOT EQUAL. The Paragon approach is deeply flawed on several levels.

Don't jump to conclusions.

Don't you just love the humility and open mindedness of the renegade?

[Arppis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

I bet you didn't even read the rest of my original comment did you? You just saw the first line and you just HAD to post comment, didn't you?

I read the rest of it but I decided the first part was the most satisfying part to respond to.

I'll tell you this: I won't admit that both sides are equal because THEY ARE NOT EQUAL. The Paragon approach is deeply flawed on several levels.

Don't jump to conclusions.

Just like Renegade approach is flawed too. It shouldn't work as well as it does now. You still have to deal with the geth warships, so why not take them out first? Plus council races would really give you big F-you after the stunt. You just don't want to see it, because renegade actions aren't treated realisticaly either.

Saphra Deden wrote...

I expect equal treatment. Somebody coming after my Renegade because he killed someone he shouldn't have would be a reward as far as I'm concerned because it is extra content (and possibly experience points).

You don't go to jail and usualy get more cash than paragons, reward enough?

Modifié par Arppis, 17 août 2011 - 02:03 .

[Arppis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arppis wrote...

You don't go to jail and usualy get more cash than paragons, reward enough?

At what times am I getting more cash? The only time I can think of is that volus, but that isn't much. Selling Legion only gets you 20,000 credits in the end since you'd get 30,000 on his LM.

Mind you by this point there isn't much to spend that cash on.

That's not the issue though. I want equal content. I want equal carry over of my decisions. That's the entire point of the import system, which is Mass Effect's most unique feature. Giving me less is cheating me out of my money and play time.

I see. Well, I guess you just have to pick the option which you think would benefit you, no matter which icon it is. I don't pick my options based on is it Renegade or Paragon, I just pick the one that has the most benefit overall. But wasn't there more quests where you can ask money for reward or something? I must be recalling wrong then... :S

[Arppis]

Time to be paragon and make nice. Stop fighting over trivial matters.

Modifié par Arppis, 17 août 2011 - 02:25 .

[BubbleSauce]

Luc0s wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

 I want equal content. I want equal carry over of my decisions. That's the entire point of the import system, which is Mass Effect's most unique feature. Giving me less is cheating me out of my money and play time.

There is nothing to "carry over" if you blew eveything up. DUH!

Heh, well said.

I just realised that there's an uncanny amount of explosions in the renegade path...

[MacCready]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

MacCready wrote...

Put your question in real life terms, for example, change pro-human to pro-white. Are you a paragon? No, you are a dick!

How about pro-American, or pro-Western in general? I think that's more accurate. Am I still a dick?

Yes

Not to get political but anti-americanism pisses me off.

You gimp! You tell me to keep shut about politics (and I did) so the thread wouldn't be derailed off topic, and now you're bringing up one of my comments again and going off topic, again! hypocritical much?

Anyway, back on topic.

So The Alliance invaded The Batarians for Element Zero despite their claim that they did it in the name of spreading galactic peace. The Batarians, slightly pissed off about their homeworld being reduced to a warzone, decide to retaliate by attacking The Alliance on their home turf and blowing up their financial district. So The Alliance call this 'terrorism', despite when they do it it's called 'defending democracy', even if it means carpet bombing a Batarian orphanage. Then The Alliance have the cheek to call themselves the victims?!

F*cking Ameri.... er, Alliance!

[Xilizhra]

I find it difficult to see how you're being "punished," Saphra.