708 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

So, Saphra: Assume you get all your Renegade new content and none of the Paragon content changes. Are you now satisfied?

[Mykel54]

The worst offender is the consequences of saving the council or not, saving them gets you a chance to speak with them and either:

a) regain spectre status -paragon-
telling them to shove it -renegade-

Renegades get to speak only with Anderson, and there is no chance whatsoever to ever try to justify your decision. To have a proper representation of both decisions, letting the council die should have allowed you to meet the 3 new councilors, with two options as well:

a) trying to explain why what you did was justified -paragon-
This is what players that chose "focus on sovereign" would like to have shepard say.
call them a bunch of ungrateful morons and be annoyed that new council don´t believe in the reapers -renegade-
This is what players that chose "let the council die" would have shepard say.

Of course they would not get the spectre status back (unless Anderson is councilor), but at least renegades would get to see how the new council is and get the same level of content.

Modifié par Mykel54, 17 août 2011 - 03:03 .

[Xilizhra]

Mykel54 wrote...

The worst offender is the consequences of saving the council or not, saving them gets you a chance to speak with them and either:

a) regain spectre status -paragon-
telling them to shove it -renegade-

Renegades get to speak only with Anderson, and there is no chance whatsoever to ever try to justify your decision. To have a proper representation of both decisions, letting the council die should have allowed you to meet the 3 new councilors, with two options as well:

a) trying to explain why what you did was justified -paragon-
This is what players that chose "focus on sovereign" would like to have shepard say.
call them a bunch of ungrateful morons and be annoyed that new council don´t believe in the reapers -renegade-
This is what players that chose "let the council die" would have shepard say.

Of course they would not get the spectre status back (unless Anderson is councilor), but at least renegades would get to see how the new council is and get the same level of content.

So invent a total of six new Councilors whom we'll never get to see again? A productive use of time, that...

[Kaiser Shepard]

The only things Renegades (as well as most Paragades) get is the satisfaction that they're making the right choice.

Which is good and all, but leaves 'my' universe wide open for a Reaper invasion without any of the Paragon benefits, or the Collector Base...

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

So invent a total of six new Councilors whom we'll never get to see again? A productive use of time, that...

Living up to the promise of shaping the universe over the course of a trilogy, which is the main premise of the series to begin with? Yup, total waste of time. It's not like the team hasn't got any experience at all with creating new and exciting characters, or the time to create three 3-minute scenes which don't alter the course of ther story on themselves.

We are apparently getting to see a possible new Council in ME3, though, although I'd argue that's too late...

[Barquiel]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

We are apparently getting to see a possible new Council in ME3, though, although I'd argue that's too late...

They will never reach the greatness of Valern.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So, Saphra: Assume you get all your Renegade new content and none of the Paragon content changes. Are you now satisfied?

Yes.

Well, that puts you a step above everyone clamoring for Paragons to be punished.

[Aaleel]

The problem was with ME1, and not ME2, in the fact that the only options they gave in ME1 was kill someone or let them live. I don't see how you give extra content in a case where someone is dead. Like the Dr. on Virmire, it's just you and her in a room, no one else knows anything.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, that puts you a step above everyone clamoring for Paragons to be punished.

Paragons being punished is a minor issue for me. I think the Mass Effect universe would be more realistic if this happened from time to time, but if it doesn't I'll just rationalize it by saying that Paragon/Renegade aren't just the internal morality of Shepard, but are the actual tone of the Mass Effect universe itself.

If you want a crappy, predictable, boring story with no tension or drama then you go Paragon.

If you want uncertainty, ethical dilemmas, and lots of tension, you go Renegade.

Meh. I've felt plenty of tension/drama in my own playthroughs. It's not like I purely metagame.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Barquiel wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

We are apparently getting to see a possible new Council in ME3, though, although I'd argue that's too late...

They will never reach the greatness of Valern.

Meh, I'll take no bonus content at all over having to listen to that idiot again.

[BubbleSauce]

BP20125810 wrote...

Renegade = You don't need any help
Paragon = You gather help from others.

That's my take on it.

No, I think the correct assumption would be more like you don't want any help

[Aaleel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

The problem was with ME1, and not ME2, in the fact that the only options they gave in ME1 was kill someone or let them live. I don't see how you give extra content in a case where someone is dead. Like the Dr. on Virmire, it's just you and her in a room, no one else knows anything.

There are a few cases where I'm at a bit of a loss for how to provide a carry over too, but that's fine. Not every choice needs an equal Paragon/Renegade result.

Now as far as the council goes.  They could have used focus on Soveriegn as the Renegade option, a few ships to help out the council.  Then the DA could have escaped but with heavy casualties and more civiliam deaths, maybe a council member as well, we'll use the Turian for this example

Then after the fight Shepard could really blackmail the council, I just saved the two of you, and the galaxy, how will it look if you deny humanity a council seat.  So the first decision was Renegade, as well as the way you get the council seat.  Then you can defend your actions in ME2, with a new Turian council member and your choice.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Legion is a good example. Recruiting him or not is something I keep wrestling with. On one hand I think it might be a bit more in-character for my Shepard to give him to Cerberus, but then I worry that in ME3 I'll just wind up with an outcome identical to me having never played ME2 at all. I'll feel, not like I made a bad decision, but that I missed out.

His Shadow Broker dossier implies that giving him to Cerberus will yield some future consequence, although I personally doubt it'll be something noteworthy. Even more so considering how you gave up a potential squaddie and LM for it.

[Aaleel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sure, they could do that. Or we could just meet a totally new Council. Characters dying in the previous game gives us a chance to meet completely new ones. Wreav is a good example. Too bad we also get him in a non-import game so he's not import-exclusive.

Well the default game is straight renegade, they didn't even try to mix it up.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Aaleel wrote...

Well the default game is straight renegade, they didn't even try to mix it up.

Not entirely; the default ME2 gives you a file in which there are as few as possible confusing ties to ME1, which mostly happens to coincide with a full Renegade playthrough.

[LGTX]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LGTX wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LGTX wrote...

My argument still stands. If Sovy could hack the Citadel himself, he wouldn't send Saren. Saren was dead. Sovy took control of Saren, so killing the latter became priority #1. Saving or not saving the Council had little to do with the odds against the final boss.

Sovy was doomed. He was locked up in his own creative rat trap but his parents weren't coming home anymore.

No, it doesn't. He sent Saren because Saren is his pawn. Ensurance if you will.

Being a pawn is reason enough? How is sending a relatively average, and KILLABLE, organic an ensurance, as opposed to using that supposed hyper intelligent machine god haxor skills?

Because he couldn't hack the Citadel from a distance. By having Saren in, it's double insurance - ensurance that the citadel won't close it's door into it's face and ensurance that he will be able to get a connection.

Also, I see you ignored the rest of my point.

Yes, I ignored whatever was out of my logic span. I'm sorry for being too stupid for you.

You just proved my initial point by the way. If Saren is instrumental in hacking the Citadel, it is him that is priority #1, not Sovy.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

The only extra content I can think of is the Conrad Verner quest, the Detective Parsini quest, and seeing the Asari who tells you about the Rachni queen.

The Council, Dr. Ialis (Virmire), Fist, BDTS (though all you get is an email).

The Conrad Verner you meet is actually the Renegade one due to a bug back in ME1.

Tis' very late here, only stopping by over cuppa.....Dr Ialis??? This is new to me....who is s/he he, where on Vimire?

Modifié par Golden Owl, 17 août 2011 - 03:49 .