708 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

Because the renegade conception of "pro-human" means oppression of all non-humans.

[lolnoobs]

redneckwonderland wrote...

Yes, even more so than if just pro-white.

I hear there's still room in Somalia or North Korea. Both totally not western, so they should be awesome (not the button) for you.

But it might be hard to find food there, let alone a computer/xbox for mass effect bioware forum dude.

[Luke Nukem Forever]

England's ok, America is a hypercritical ****

[Agamo45]

redneckwonderland wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

MacCready wrote...

Put your question in real life terms, for example, change pro-human to pro-white. Are you a paragon? No, you are a dick!

How about pro-American, or pro-Western in general? I think that's more accurate. Am I still a dick?

Yes, even more so than if just pro-white.

I'm not going to talk about politics, take your precious liberalism elsewhere.

[Bad King]

I like where this thread is going.

[Luke Nukem Forever]

Alright guys can we have enough of this mess that we call politics. Lets get back to our game.

[LGTX]

Ultai wrote...

LGTX wrote...

Vigil's virus was in, the Reapers were cut off. Sovy was in the minority and his minutes were numbered anyway, at least that's the gist I had when first finishing the game. Taking him out with a live Council was the more productive choice.

I'm sure an ancient sentient machine isn't capable of just hacking through an organic race's little file in a short period of time in a network the Reapers constructed.  I mean, compared to the Reapers, the protheans are just a blip when talking about lifespan and acquired knowledge.  

Which is why I think if the Reapers really wanted to win, they would just bum rush the Citadel again with their entire fleet, easily occupy the station, hack through Vigil's file, then selectively shut off relays.  But this is a game and the player has to win, and most of the time the hero wins by forced villain stupidity (let's spread ourselves all over the galaxy!), or in this case, most likely a deus ex machina.  Focus on Sovereign always made the most tactical sense to me, that and I don't give a damn if random aliens like me or not.

I didn't think that much during a simple decision, sorry. And i don't metagame that much either. My logics told me that having an intergalactic leadership which trusted you would be better off in the coming war than thousands of human lives, or whatever, lost. I really had a sense that if the council would die, I'd either have to work real hard on gaining the trust of the new one, or not have the support at all.

And Vigil's virus WAS IN. I never assumed the opposite since it happened. Sovereign wouldn't need to zombie Saren all the way into the Tower if he could just hack the goddamn thing himself.

[Golden Owl]

lolnoobs wrote...

redneckwonderland wrote...

Yes, even more so than if just pro-white.

I hear there's still room in Somalia or North Korea. Both totally not western, so they should be awesome (not the button) for you.

But it might be hard to find food there, let alone a computer/xbox for mass effect bioware forum dude.

Get over your self lolnoobs.

[Golden Owl]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

I've always gone on the assumption that for the major decisions.

Paragon = Building an intergalactic alliance.
Renegade = Humans doing it alone.

The non major decisions run the gamete.

Major Renegade decisions like focusing on sovereign, killing the rachni queen*, destroying the heretic geth,etc benefit all of Galactic civilization. They aren't some one note scheme to ensure human dominance.

* If the writers had more sense or took the morality and outcomes more seriously killing the Rachni Queen would have earned Renegade Shepard a lot of respect from the Krogans for honoring the memory of their ancestors.

The Rachni thing isn't exactly public knowledge,  it is also safe to assume that Wrex is the only Krogan that knows about it.

This is one of the few issues I agree with Seboist on....that should be a loss for paragon Shep and a clear ally win for renegade Shep.

[Seboist]

Barquiel wrote...

Because the renegade conception of "pro-human" means oppression of all non-humans.

Paragon fabrication right there.

[Seboist]

Golden Owl wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

I've always gone on the assumption that for the major decisions.

Paragon = Building an intergalactic alliance.
Renegade = Humans doing it alone.

The non major decisions run the gamete.

Major Renegade decisions like focusing on sovereign, killing the rachni queen*, destroying the heretic geth,etc benefit all of Galactic civilization. They aren't some one note scheme to ensure human dominance.

* If the writers had more sense or took the morality and outcomes more seriously killing the Rachni Queen would have earned Renegade Shepard a lot of respect from the Krogans for honoring the memory of their ancestors.

The Rachni thing isn't exactly public knowledge,  it is also safe to assume that Wrex is the only Krogan that knows about it.

This is one of the few issues I agree with Seboist on....that should be a loss for paragon Shep and a clear ally win for renegade Shep.

Agreeing with me makes you a better person!

[lawl913]

I think its stupid as well honestly, you're going to give me bad guy points for looking out for my own species? Ok thanks.

Theirs a big difference between a racist and somebody who is sticking up for they're own. Hardly any of those dialogue choices were obviously racist alien statements

But hey. You also get renegade points for being nice to the illusive man right after he spent millions to bring you back to life. Its like ...ok

Modifié par lawl913, 17 août 2011 - 12:12 .

[lolnoobs]

lawl913 wrote...

I think its stupid as well honestly, you're going to give me bad guy points for looking out for my own species? Ok thanks.

Theirs a big difference between a racist and somebody who is sticking up for they're own. Hardly any of those dialogue choices were obviously racist alien statements

But hey. You also get renegade points for being nice to the illusive man right after he spent millions to bring you back to life. Its like ...ok

But it's not politically correct, so it's BAAADDD.

[Seboist]

Luc0s wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Because pro-human is selfish and renegade is selfish.

It's not complicated.

What's selfish about wanting to keep humanity strong and independant?

There is nothing selfish about wanting to keep humanity strong and independent. But wanting to keep humanity strong and independent over the backs of other alien species is completely selfish, which is what Cerberus and renegade-Shepard stands for.

Renegade-Shep isn't simply about being pro-human, it's about being pro-human at all cost, even when that means other alien species will have to suffer for it.

Paragon-Shep is more like a socialist, wanting to keep everyone and everything equal. Para-Shep is all about everyone getting their fair share, if you get what I mean.


However, having played both Paragon and Renegade, I can also safely say that Renegade wants to be independent (which is why pro-human = renegade) while Parafon tries to build an alliance between humanity and the other species.

Utterly false, all the renegade major decisions benefit all of the galaxy. Like I've said, killing the Rachni Queen,sacrificing the council, destroying the heretic geth,etc benefit all species and not just humanity.

And how the hell is a decision like wiping out the feros colony 'being pro-human at all cost at the expense of others" ?

[Dean_the_Young]

Barquiel wrote...

Because the renegade conception of "pro-human" means oppression of all non-humans.

Only if you have no imagination.

[Requiem of Faith]

I find it is more interesting to just flip a coin and go from there...

[Agamo45]

Luc0s wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Because pro-human is selfish and renegade is selfish.

It's not complicated.

What's selfish about wanting to keep humanity strong and independant?

There is nothing selfish about wanting to keep humanity strong and independent. But wanting to keep humanity strong and independent over the backs of other alien species is completely selfish, which is what Cerberus and renegade-Shepard stands for.

Renegade-Shep isn't simply about being pro-human, it's about being pro-human at all cost, even when that means other alien species will have to suffer for it.

Paragon-Shep is more like a socialist, wanting to keep everyone and everything equal. Para-Shep is all about everyone getting their fair share, if you get what I mean.


However, having played both Paragon and Renegade, I can also safely say that Renegade wants to be independent (which is why pro-human = renegade) while Parafon tries to build an alliance between humanity and the other species.

Utterly false, all the renegade major decisions benefit all of the galaxy. Like I've said, killing the Rachni Queen,sacrificing the council, destroying the heretic geth,etc benefit all species and not just humanity.

And how the hell is a decision like wiping out the feros colony 'being pro-human at all cost at the expense of others" ?

- Destroying the Heretic geth: Killing potential allies simply because you mistrust Legion and the orthodox geth (Legion and the orthodox geth are willing to co-operate with you, but renegade-Shep doesn't roll that way, he rolls alone).

That doesn't make any sense. Legion itself was conflicted over whether to destroy them or rewrite them. It also said plainly that there was a chance that they could revert back to worshipping the Reapers if you re-wrote them. The safest course for the galaxy is to wipe them out.

[LilyasAvalon]

The concept of paragon/renegade does not work if you take both to extremes, the game IS supposed to be about our own morals and shaped by our choices and decisions. It's supposed to technically be played paragade after all.

I've personally viewed renegade as doing what is deemed necessary with possibly being a bit of a hardened ****, while paragon is seeking the alternative route and being compassionate.

I don't approve of paragons being called sissy's though. What about in Overlord, when Paragon interupt let us pistol whip the scientist?

[lolnoobs]

Luc0s wrote...
- Killing the rachni-queen: Commiting genocide on a species that did nothing wrong to you, just because you're afraid they might turn on you later (this totally proves my statement that renagde-Shep tries to ensure his dominance at the cost of other species).

You do know that this insectoid race once almost destroyed any other spacefaring race right?

Luc0s wrote...- Sacrificing the council: Letting the council die so you can get humanity to lead the new council (keep in mind that "focus on Sovereign" is not renegade, it's neutral. The renegade option was "let the council die!").

If they had acted instead of ignoring commisar shep Sovereign wouldn't have reached the citadel saving many lives. It's the council that's renegade, all they do is look after themselves, why not let them die?

Luc0s wrote...- Destroying the Heretic geth: Killing potential allies simply because you mistrust Legion and the orthodox geth (Legion and the orthodox geth are willing to co-operate with you, but renegade-Shep doesn't roll that way, he rolls alone).

Hmm, a robotic race that only uses cold emotionless logic. I'd rather pass.

[LilyasAvalon]

@lol: To be quite fair to the council, in ME1 I wouldn't exactly be all that quick to jump onto the back of a theory of a sentient spaceship destroying all galactic life either. It IS a bit farfetched when you think about it. But by ME2, the council is just blissfully in ignorance.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

LilyasAvalon wrote....

I don't approve of paragons being called sissy's though. What about in Overlord, when Paragon interupt let us pistol whip the scientist?

Or telling the elcor on Omega you would break his legs?

[lolnoobs]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

The concept of paragon/renegade does not work if you take both to extremes, the game IS supposed to be about our own morals and shaped by our choices and decisions. It's supposed to technically be played paragade after all.

I've personally viewed renegade as doing what is deemed necessary with possibly being a bit of a hardened ****, while paragon is seeking the alternative route and being compassionate.

I don't approve of paragons being called sissy's though. What about in Overlord, when Paragon interupt let us pistol whip the scientist?

Pistol whip? WOW, HOW TOTALLY BADASS CONSIDERING HE WAS POINTING A GUN AT YOU.

A non sissy would have shot him.

[rikimeru420]

Agamo45 wrote...

 Renegade is about being ruthless right? Well I've never understood what is 'ruthless' about supporting and promoting your own race. To be a paragon you basically have to be a self-hating 'liberal'(for lack of a better word) and an apologist. You have to kiss every alien's ass and apologize for humanity's success. The attitude is borderline treasonous. I would not be surprised if the paragon ending to ME3 involves sacrificing Earth to save the rest of the galaxy.

its renegade because it does more harm than good to the human race in the long run.