708 réponses à ce sujet

[LilyasAvalon]

Alraiis wrote...

Every difference of opinion that Shepard can express must, by virtue of the mechanics, be split into the Paragon and Renegade categories. Paragon vs. Renegade is not good vs. evil. It's community vs. individual, idealism vs. pragmatism, rehabilitation vs. capital punishment, salad vs. soup, cats vs. dogs, etc., etc., etc. For my money, if you want a nuanced character, pick what makes sense and ignore the labels. Only zealots vote straight down the ticket. (Feel free to roleplay a zealot, though.)

I want salad, please.

[Golden Owl]

Luc0s wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Does the Renegade Shep actually choose an all human council though? Or is it just what takes place while s/he is dead?

Yes. I've recently played a 95% renegade character (and only 5% paragon) and when I let the council die, Udina came with the idea of creating an all-human council. As a renegade, I agreed with his idea, and so the all-human council was born.

I thought reading the Forums had given me a lot of answers...this one I had no idea about. Does Udina address why?

[Aaleel]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I generally disagree with Marshall,but he brings teh lulz so I will just say this.

The decision to save the council or not was one of the most loaded decisions I have ever seen.

First the DA is the biggest target in council space,why you put all 3 councilors aboard it is beyond me.

Why is focusing on saving the many less heroic then focusing on saving 3 replaceable assclowns and a dreadnaught.

I thought the DA was the evacuation of the entire Citadel, there were 10000 people on the ship.

[Barquiel]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Why is focusing on saving the many less heroic then focusing on saving 3 replaceable assclowns and a dreadnaught.

You save the 10.000 lives aboard the Ascension, the three councilors (= you ensure political stability) and your only dreadnought.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Luc0s wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Why is focusing on saving the many less heroic then focusing on saving 3 replaceable assclowns and a dreadnaught.

It's not as simple as you put it here. Do you honestly think the council where the only 3 people aboard the DA? Think again.

When you save the DA, you don't just save the council, you save over 10000 lifes.

I knew that,but I figured it would be overruled by the whole galaxy if soveriegn wasn't stopped,so I didn't think I would need to spell it out.

Guess I was wrong.

[Golden Owl]

Luc0s wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Why is focusing on saving the many less heroic then focusing on saving 3 replaceable assclowns and a dreadnaught.

It's not as simple as you put it here. Do you honestly think the council where the only 3 people aboard the DA? Think again.

When you save the DA, you don't just save the council, you save over 10000 lifes.

Which Shep is unaware of at the time....we don't get the numbers until ME2....I saved the council...why?: Galactic stability, with the Reapers coming Galactic stability is needed more than ever....no matter how d*ckish polititions are, the fact of the matter is in times of strife/trauma people turn to their pollies for guidance....By allowing the pollies to die, Shep is fracturing Galactic unity, which he is going to need in spades when the Reaper force arrives.....Mine was purely a political decision.

[Golden Owl]

Luc0s wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Does the Renegade Shep actually choose an all human council though? Or is it just what takes place while s/he is dead?

Yes. I've recently played a 95% renegade character (and only 5% paragon) and when I let the council die, Udina came with the idea of creating an all-human council. As a renegade, I agreed with his idea, and so the all-human council was born.

I thought reading the Forums had given me a lot of answers...this one I had no idea about. Does Udina address why?

Udina says that the galaxy might be in danger and that there is a potential war coming up. In war, you don't need politicians from different races with different interrests babbeling and trying to reach a concensus, you need a council with 1 ideology and 1 single interest (human interest obviously). To make sure the new council doesn't hesitate to work together with humanity, the new council should be human-only.

That's basically what Udina says, but with different words.

Thank you Luc0s...much appreciated.

[Xilizhra]

Fun fact: absolutely nothing that gives Renegade points is necessary. So, in a way, it's Paragons who care about the best results, while Renegades are enslaved by principle by claiming that "it SHOULDN'T be this way!"

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Question:I know it isn't human,but surely the counselors have replacements lined up,in case of something like...all of them being on the same ship at the same time and said ship being destroyed?

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 17 août 2011 - 01:15 .

[Alraiis]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Alraiis wrote...

Every difference of opinion that Shepard can express must, by virtue of the mechanics, be split into the Paragon and Renegade categories. Paragon vs. Renegade is not good vs. evil. It's community vs. individual, idealism vs. pragmatism, rehabilitation vs. capital punishment, salad vs. soup, cats vs. dogs, etc., etc., etc. For my money, if you want a nuanced character, pick what makes sense and ignore the labels. Only zealots vote straight down the ticket. (Feel free to roleplay a zealot, though.)

I want salad, please.

+2 Paragon.

[Xilizhra]

Luc0s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fun fact: absolutely nothing that gives Renegade points is necessary. So, in a way, it's Paragons who care about the best results, while Renegades are enslaved by principle by claiming that "it SHOULDN'T be this way!"

I don't think I understand you. Care to explain this "fun fact"?

Certainly. You never have to undertake a Renegade action to save the galaxy or any variant thereof. You can save the Destiny Ascension, bomb the Collector base, save the rachni queen, etc. Undertaking the Renegade choice is never a necessity, regardless of what Renegade players may wish.

[Seboist]

Xilizhra wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fun fact: absolutely nothing that gives Renegade points is necessary. So, in a way, it's Paragons who care about the best results, while Renegades are enslaved by principle by claiming that "it SHOULDN'T be this way!"

I don't think I understand you. Care to explain this "fun fact"?

Certainly. You never have to undertake a Renegade action to save the galaxy or any variant thereof. You can save the Destiny Ascension, bomb the Collector base, save the rachni queen, etc. Undertaking the Renegade choice is never a necessity, regardless of what Renegade players may wish.

Yeah, no reason to play Renegade except for the lulz.

[Aaleel]

The problem is that the system is inconsistent.

- Sometimes it's pro-human/pro-galactic alliances
- Sometimes it's tone like at Tali's trial when you tell the board you don't need evidence
- Sometimes it's by any means, like beating a confession out a suspect or not
- Sometimes it's just straight right and wrong, like double crossing the detective on Noveria, or killing Shiani after she's free from the mind control. No good reason I can think to do either.

[Xilizhra]

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fun fact: absolutely nothing that gives Renegade points is necessary. So, in a way, it's Paragons who care about the best results, while Renegades are enslaved by principle by claiming that "it SHOULDN'T be this way!"

I don't think I understand you. Care to explain this "fun fact"?

Certainly. You never have to undertake a Renegade action to save the galaxy or any variant thereof. You can save the Destiny Ascension, bomb the Collector base, save the rachni queen, etc. Undertaking the Renegade choice is never a necessity, regardless of what Renegade players may wish.

Yeah, no reason to play Renegade except for the lulz.

Or if you want to kill all in your path and lead a monospecies human empire to dominance over a burning galaxy. 'Tis your Shepard.

[Golden Owl]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

The concept of paragon/renegade does not work if you take both to extremes, the game IS supposed to be about our own morals and shaped by our choices and decisions. It's supposed to technically be played paragade after all.

I've personally viewed renegade as doing what is deemed necessary with possibly being a bit of a hardened ****, while paragon is seeking the alternative route and being compassionate.

I don't approve of paragons being called sissy's though. What about in Overlord, when Paragon interupt let us pistol whip the scientist?

Paragon isn't a sissy....can be naive and holier-than-thou at times....but sissy...No....Paragon is most generally as you say:[b]

Hence why I said the game isn't supposed to played with extremes to with para or rene. The fully paragon Shepard is just as cheesy as fully renegade Shepard in my opinion.

My favorite Shep of mine is mostly paragon with a touch of renegade and a smart smattering of neutral for those very reasons....But RP wise it's actually my full paragon I will be importing to ME3...I have been thinking on this for a long time, fiddling with his dialog and actions, etc...but have decided to run a charming though very, very full of himself full paragon...gets his face healed asap cos he wants to look good, etc....Top Gun kinda dude....Why? He is cheesy, naive and hoiler-than-thou, but his fun.......the pic I have in my head of him anyway.

[Saaziel]

Luc0s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fun fact: absolutely nothing that gives Renegade points is necessary. So, in a way, it's Paragons who care about the best results, while Renegades are enslaved by principle by claiming that "it SHOULDN'T be this way!"

I don't think I understand you. Care to explain this "fun fact"?

I think he was referring to the Renegade Motto : "Necessary evil" or "The end justify the means" , that sort of thing. Of course if it were necessary , then the paragon option wouldn't even exists. So taking this this kind of mentality is obviously setting yourself up for disappointments if those action aren't justified as necessary.

On a side note it does make for absurd situations like the "Telon " (or whatever his name is) incident in the Dantius towers.

Edit : Ninja'd

Modifié par Saaziel, 17 août 2011 - 02:14 .

[Golden Owl]

Luc0s wrote...


No problem. You might wanna give Renegade Shepard a try yourself once. It's really fun to see the other side of the coin by yourself.

I'm a Paragon player at heart, but I really enjoyed playing my Renegade Shepard too.

I have tried twice now....just can't make it through the games.......am too soft.......LOL...

[Seboist]

Xilizhra wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fun fact: absolutely nothing that gives Renegade points is necessary. So, in a way, it's Paragons who care about the best results, while Renegades are enslaved by principle by claiming that "it SHOULDN'T be this way!"

I don't think I understand you. Care to explain this "fun fact"?

Certainly. You never have to undertake a Renegade action to save the galaxy or any variant thereof. You can save the Destiny Ascension, bomb the Collector base, save the rachni queen, etc. Undertaking the Renegade choice is never a necessity, regardless of what Renegade players may wish.

Yeah, no reason to play Renegade except for the lulz.

Or if you want to kill all in your path and lead a monospecies human empire to dominance over a burning galaxy. 'Tis your Shepard.

Eh, there's very little indicator (if any) that humanity is all that much more stronger militarily for sacrificing the council or that keeping the collector base doesn't ... you know blow up in Shepard's face.

I have yet to see any indicator that renegade is anything more than the paragon path with joke dialogue,less content and not much else.

[Barquiel]

Golden Owl wrote...

Luc0s wrote...


No problem. You might wanna give Renegade Shepard a try yourself once. It's really fun to see the other side of the coin by yourself.

I'm a Paragon player at heart, but I really enjoyed playing my Renegade Shepard too.

I have tried twice now....just can't make it through the games.......am too soft.......LOL...

I can't bring myself to be a renegade Shepard either...I usually give up on Noveria (rachni) or Feros (Shiala)

[Xilizhra]

Eh, there's very little indicator (if any) that humanity is all that much more stronger militarily for sacrificing the council or that keeping the collector base doesn't ... you know blow up in Shepard's face.

I have yet to see any indicator that renegade is anything more than the paragon path with joke dialogue,less content and not much else.

Note how I said "if you want to." There's no indicator that you'll succeed. However... if all Renegades care about is results, should results not be all you get?