63 réponses à ce sujet

[Unbroken Lineage]

I think the clearest picture comes from the Dwarves who respect the Wardens not only as fierce warriors but as honor-brothers: the greatness of the Grey Wardens is their resolve, not their might. Their renunciation of worldly things is like that of the chantry, and yet greater, for they resign themselves willingly to a short life in service to all peoples, focusing the entirety of their attention and effort single-pointedly in driving back the Darkspawn horde. This is what makes Grey Wardens awesome, not the Joining ritual.

[orpheus333]

It amazes me that the Dwarves even have Grey Warden treaties. As a leader of the Dwarven empires the Blights are a rest from constant Darkspawn Incursion i would not help the surface world unless it was necessary it is a chance, if anything, to repair our defences and replenish our golem armies (i will never believe that dwarves that give themselves to golem service is a wrong thing). Dwarves that sacrifice themselves, as grey wardens do, should be venerated. All golems in my eyes are paragons of their kind. Yet still it is not in the Dwarven empires best interest to waste valuable soldiers on the surface when the Dwarven kingdom is facing blight century after century.

The templars face a similar fate to those that join the wardens. Madness. Lyrium exposure for those that are not mages means over exposure to the fade. And the fade in turn makes them mad. However it would be interesting to consider that if a dwarf was exposed to lyrium long enough they could be turned into a mage. The same with the average human. Perhaps their  is a way to create an army of mages, or evolve humanity into having a direct connecttion to the fade through the controlled exposure to lyrium and mage teachings. After all Templars gain their magic nullifying abilities through direct exposure to lyrium/the fade. Surely this is not a matter of their zeolotry but a matter of a connection to the fade itself through lyrium.

Modifié par andyr1986, 23 novembre 2009 - 09:51 .

[Nosuchluck]

Er if the top world gets destroyed what do you think is going to happen to stunties? Think how the dwarfen empire crumbled under harrow's anti-outsider/trade policy. If the top world was wiped out then the dwarfs would all die.

[orpheus333]

Thats why Dwarves should give aid at their own leisure and not be tide down to surface treaties. The survival of surface and dwarven kingdoms are tide together, but a treaty that states,0yes well help you, we are the most elite units you will ever have against the darkspawn. Is something the Dwarves should utilise within the wording of the treaty to force Grey Wardens to train within the deep roads. Perhaps then the Golems (and the dwarven sacrifice needed to make them) will not be so necessary.

It seems to me that during the centuries of down time the grey wardens should have training conducted in the deep roads. As well as their most politically adept continue progressing warnings of further blights on the surface I saw no mentioln of this in the codex's in orzammar

Modifié par andyr1986, 23 novembre 2009 - 09:38 .

[JosieJ]

Relshar wrote...

Dalish Origin I just think Duncan takes you on cause he feels pity for you although he says other wise.
City Elf he does the same as you will be strung up other wise and he and the Elder are good friends.
Dwarf Commoner maybe a close second but you still had help. Why not take your friend as well ? Leski.
Mage Origin why not take Jowan? He is in more danger than your character. And far more powerful.

Duncan himself tells your Dalish elf PC that he isn't recruiting you out of pity, that if he didn't see something special in you that would make you a good Grey Warden, he'd basically leave you to die.  I don't know why you wouldn't take Duncan's own word for it, especially with his ends-justify-the-means attitude toward Jory and the Joining. 

Your City Elf PC impresses him upon first meeting with your leadership and resolve, and further impresses him when he finds out you fought through an entire castle to rescue your friends. 

Mage Origin: you are the best student in generations and Irving is actively promoting you to Duncan as a candidate for the Wardens.  You later find out that Irving knew about Jowan all along and manipulated the situation to get Duncan to conscript you (whether or not you rat Jowan out).  [That wily Irving--he  knew you'd be wasted in the Tower under the constant watch of the Templars!]  Why would Duncan take a weak-*** student who can't light a fire with a match without using forbidden powers--and who shows extremely poor judgement in toying with them when he's not equipped to deal with them--over a prodigy like yourself who has innate talents you don't have to cheat to get?  Out of pity?  Again, I think the Jory situation proves that Duncan is not about pity, otherwise he'd just let Jory go home to his wife and soon-to-be-born child.  But the Joining is a secret for a reason, and no matter how much Jory swears, there's no guarantee that he wouldn't talk about it.  There is no turning back, so Jory has to die.

Those are the only Origins I've played.

[Unbroken Lineage]

The Wardens take the fight into the Deep Roads, and as someone in Orz says, the only top-siders who care about what happens in the Dwarven kingdoms. Wardens who do not fall in battle take themselves into the Deep Roads beyond even where the Legion of the Dead will dare go, to take out as many spawn as they can before the madness fully takes them. The Warrior caste has seen this century after century and thusly are the Wardens held by the Dwarves to be worthy of veneration very nearly as Paragons.

[orpheus333]

Unbroken Lineage wrote...

The Wardens take the fight into the Deep Roads, and as someone in Orz says, the only top-siders who care about what happens in the Dwarven kingdoms. Wardens who do not fall in battle take themselves into the Deep Roads beyond even where the Legion of the Dead will dare go, to take out as many spawn as they can before the madness fully takes them. The Warrior caste has seen this century after century and thusly are the Wardens held by the Dwarves to be worthy of veneration very nearly as Paragons.

This is only in the calling i see no grey wardens activily in units progressing the plight of the dwaren kingdom. The deep roads are widespread  If feleden has 15 Grey Wardens at ostagar. Yet the Orlesian Wardens amount 100+ there is room for Wardens to create units akin to the Legion of the Dead. Especially raw recruits just entering the joing.

IMO the Grey Wardens should have continued their battle from day one, from first blight to fourth with activity all along the deep roads. I do admit however that 400 years (13 generations of wardens, if each warden on ly lives 30 years...i believe this is thirty years after the joning but some don't)) is a large price to pay.

Modifié par andyr1986, 23 novembre 2009 - 09:48 .

[Dark83]

andyr, about "Blight".



You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.



Deepspawn are disorganized rabble who fight amongst themselves. When there isn't a Blight. When there is a Blight, they become an organized hivemind guided by an Archdemon. If there wasn't a Blight, the Dwarven empire would never have fallen. The Dwarves know they can't hold off against a Blight, because they lost everything other than two cities to one. The Dwarves know that only the Grey Wardens can defeat a Blight - because they unified everyone against it.

The Grey Wardens are more than just "able to kill an Archdemon", they represent hope and an apolitical unifying symbol.

The Dwarves cannot ignore a Blight, because if the alliances fail then they'll be all that's left - and they couldn't defeat a Blight with their entire empire. How long can two isolated cities hold out?

[Relshar]

Some good answers to the questions I have had thank you.



I also think that some of you are right about the Deep Roads. When there are no blights topside why don't the Grey Wardens have a base in Orzaminr (sp) ? Would make sense as then they could train new recruits in the Deep Roads. Would help the Dwarfs who are a dwindeling race due to the constant battles with the DarkSpawn.

[Taleroth]

I wouldn't trust them, either.



The only reason the Grey Wardens are necessary to end a Blight is because the Grey Wardens are keeping the means to do so secret. They're a mercenary force that enforces a monopoly on saving the world, presumably by less than noble means.

[marshalleck]

Yes, because commoners and nobles alike would certainly be lining up to drink darkspawn blood, which if it doesn't outright kill them, dooms them to inevitable death in striking down an Archdemon or an inglorious and anonymous end in the Deep Roads.



It's no small wonder they have to protect their ritual.

[Taleroth]

marshalleck wrote...

Yes, because commoners and nobles alike would certainly be lining up to drink darkspawn blood, which if it doesn't outright kill them, dooms them to inevitable death in striking down an Archdemon or an inglorious and anonymous end in the Deep Roads.

It's no small wonder they have to protect their ritual.

Oh yes, the countless instances in our own history, Thedas' history, and in the fricking game itself, of people willing to sacrifice themselves for a greater good are all complete lies.  Everybody is Jory and the Grey Wardens apparently depend upon having tons of people line up en masse and drink from the cup before they even realize what it is.

And there's certainly no way for governments of nations to recruit people for it on their own.  Apparently only the Grey Wardens can keep secrets and get people to be willing to die.

If we're to assume everyone is a selfish coward, then let's also assume the Grey Wardens only keep it secret because they're afraid of losing their influence and power.

Modifié par Taleroth, 24 novembre 2009 - 06:00 .

[Itkovian]

Oh, that one is relatively simple:

By virtue of the strict selection required by the Joining, all Grey Wardens are by default the cream of the crop.

There's a reason Duncan doesn't go around recruiting dozens of people at once (and it is clear that being a Grey Warden is thought of as as a great honour): the Joining will kill all except the best candidates.

Now that doesn't mean that by default Grey Wardens are the best warriors/mages/whatever, but it does mean that those selected are better than most.

So that's the practical answer: the joining is basically a means of Artificial Selection. Those who survive to become Grey Wardens tend to be better simply because they could survive it (and not necessarily due to some magic powers given by the Joining).

On a psychological level, there is the fact that Wardens have given their lives to defending Thedas from its greatest enemy. That alone is enough to earn a hefty those of respect.

Itkovian

[marshalleck]

You mentioned selection, now suffer the wrath of the populists.

Everyone can be a Grey Warden!

Modifié par marshalleck, 24 novembre 2009 - 06:30 .