2285 réponses à ce sujet

[Balek-Vriege]

[quote]gamer_girl wrote...

/snip

I'm just going to address that last part cause it's really the only point that matters. Your reasoning as to why it isn't fair is flawed because the majority of voters got what they wanted in the end. I don't know why this isn't making sense to you. Blonde Shep won by an absolute landslide in the first vote and now she isn't in the second. Why? Because clearly people weren't hung up on hair colour as much as a different feature in that Shep. Perhaps it was hairstyle. And now every Shep in the poll looks exactly the same aside from hair colour so what's so unfair about that? And if you want to know why the second poll was made to begin with, well it's clearly because the majority of blondie voters wanted a different hair colour. That's been obvious from the beginning. To the point about nobody getting the short end of the stick, well that just never happens in voting. Somebody is always left dissatisfied, but I'll tell you what: The only people who should be dissatisfied are the minority (AKA the people that lost). If it ends up that the majority (AKA the winner) is dissappointed then clearly the poll did something very wrong. That's why the second poll was made. That's how democracy works.

[/quote]

True the majority of people voting have gotten their way and that's the best thing to come out of this.  The question is: "At the expense of whom? " The first poll was at the expense of various minorities who voted for another Femshep, who fairly lost and knew a head of time that could be the case.  It presented 6 candidates, vote for the one you like best, and whoever gets the most votes wins.  It was not at the expense of people who liked Femshep 5 but preferred a different hair colour, because they still liked it enough to vote for her.

The second poll does grant a certain majority a voice, but that majority is of the very people who lost the 1st poll.  The people who backed Blonde Shepard and won in the first poll, especially those who really like the blonde hair etc., now lose in the second one.  How is this process fair to them, when it's obvious the 1st poll was set up to be the only one. 

People have the right to voice their concerns about unfairness to those who really like that option, but had it taken away at the last minute by changing the rules.  It is debatable whether Bioware handles this correctly.

[quote]gamer_girl wrote...

[quote]Balek-Vriege wrote...

You're missing the point.  In my opinion, there probably is a 30%-60% of voters who preferred a different hair colour who voted for Femshep 5 [/quote]

How do you know this? It could have very well been more than that. Regardless you saw how much blonde Shep won by in the initial poll, had the percentage of people who held that opinion been that low, blonde Shep would still be winning by a lot.


[quote]and again, you're saying the majority rules and people need to deal with it, but the majority ruled in the first vote and got the option they wanted.[/quote]

Clearly they didn't get what they wanted or the second poll wouldn't have occurred in the first place.


[quote]Was it 100% perfect for everyone? no.  However, it was fair, straightforward and the people who voted for it obviously didn't have enough problems with Femshep 5 to not vote for her.  If there was and there was a huge majority who strongly didn't like her hair colour, Femshep 5 would have lost the first poll.[/quote]

The only reason they didn't vote for the other ones is because hairstyle mattered more to them than colour, but colour was still a factor. You forget those other Sheps in poll 2 that have a different colour but same style weren't an option at the time. Had they been, blonde Shep wouldn have lost terribly.


[quote]To sum up my earlier posts without rehashing everything pointlessly.  The second poll has a major flaw in by trying to give Femshep 5 voters a choice of hair colour, they empowered the people who didn't vote for Femshep 5 to get something other than blonde hair[/quote]

Why isn't that fair? The first poll was scrapped, so every voter should be allowed to partake in the second. Had there not been such a discrepancy with the first poll everything would have been fine. You can't exclude people from the second poll just because blondie now doesn't have as big of a chance. That's ridiculous and incredibly biased.


[quote](combining the minority votes into a majority block if you will). There's almost no way blonde shep could win again statistically in that case, regardless of a majority/minority of Femshep 5 people wanting a blonde Shep or a different hair colour.[/quote]

Read above ^

The majority is clearly getting what they want. Just because blonde Shep won the first doesn't mean the other options should be given a handicap. Had the other Sheps been an option in the first place, blondie would've lost miserably.

[/quote]

So basically your points are these:

-Majority rules and is always right, unless its the majority in the first poll.  Difference between the first poll majority and the second being one voted for Blonde Femshep 5 and the other one is against it.
 
-Its fair to scrap the first poll regardless of its results, because people wanted a different hair colour and that's democratic.  It doesn't matter that there are actually clear cut numbers and stats for things (like runner up Femshep 4), which could have been been more popular than a hair colour change.
-It would have been very bias to exclude people (totally agree and nigh impossible to do, but that's another issue with the second poll allowing the victors to be overidden by the defeated)
-There was a handicap in the first poll (what?)

How can there be a handicap when it was so simple?  Femshep 5 was just as equal as any other choice. There's more apparent handicaps in the second poll than the first.  I think we can all agree on that.

[quote]Balek-Vriege wrote...

disenfrachised many from the original poll.  Two wrongs don't make a right.
[/quote]

Hmm quite curious how you see giving every single person from the original poll a chance to vote on a second poll as disenfranchisement, but you see only giving blonde Shep voters the chance as completely just.

I'm beginning to question your understanding of the word...

[/quote]

Hmm, you seem to be bending my words ther a bit. I mentioned by having another vote it allowed those who voted in poll 1 against femshep 5 (which make up about 50% of the original voting) a chance to group into a majority and vote against it.  Not that I wanted them to be excluded.  Find in my posts where I said exactly that (which you have obviously not read).  No one was deprived of a voice in poll 1.  They didn't have an option that fit 100% what they wanted.  Guess what? No one else did either.

In Poll 2 a voting block of the people who voted and won in poll 1, were deprived of their voice/vote by an after thought poll/run-off.  That's called voter disenfranchising, not exactly hard to understand.

[gamer_girl]

Rather than picking apart everything you say I'll just direct you towards the points that I actually agree with, not the fictitious ones that you decided I stand for.

RynJ wrote...

Alright, I have to say.

Is blonde FemShep winning? No.

What does that mean? That the majority doesn't want her.

Does that mean that Bioware had the right idea by doing another poll about hair color? Yes

Why? Because the fans prefer a different color apparently.

Is it unfair to those who voted blonde in the first poll? No because the option is still there, if you want it vote for it. It really is that simple.

Are a lot of blonde supporters sore losers? Yes yes they are

Are some people bad winners? Of course, but that doesn't change the facts

Are these points debatable? I don't think so. The majority not wanting blonde Shep is cold hard fact. How do you counter cold hard fact?

If you have any confusion after reading that which obviously you didn't, then I'll be very shocked.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 21 août 2011 - 10:21 .

[Balek-Vriege]

RynJ wrote...

Alright, I have to say.

Is blonde FemShep winning? No.

What does that mean? That the majority doesn't want her.

Does that mean that Bioware had the right idea by doing another poll about hair color? Yes

Why? Because the fans prefer a different color apparently.

Is it unfair to those who voted blonde in the first poll? No because the option is still there, if you want it vote for it. It really is that simple.

Are a lot of blonde supporters sore losers? Yes yes they are

Are some people bad winners? Of course, but that doesn't change the facts

Are these points debatable? I don't think so. The majority not wanting blonde Shep is cold hard fact. How do you counter cold hard fact?

You forgot one:

Did Blonde Shep fairly win the first poll?  Yes.

You make it sound like the first vote wasn't meant to count for anything when in fact it was, which changes:
 
"Is it unfair to those who voted blonde in the first poll?" from No to Maybe or Yes.

Statistically based on the first poll, it can be argued that even if there was a VERY small % of people who voted for Blonde Shepard, but didn't like her hair colour, Blonde Shepard could still lose by having to overcome a large group of minorities united (especially since there's a bit of a split between blonde/dirty blonde).  That changes:
 
"Are these points debatable?" from I don't think so, to most likely.

Edit:

On the other points, I agree

/Edit

gamer_girl wrote...

Rather than picking apart everything you say I'll just direct you towards the points that I actually agree with, not the fictitious ones that you decided I stand for.

RynJ wrote...

Alright, I have to say.

Is blonde FemShep winning? No.

What does that mean? That the majority doesn't want her.

Does that mean that Bioware had the right idea by doing another poll about hair color? Yes

Why? Because the fans prefer a different color apparently.

Is it unfair to those who voted blonde in the first poll? No because the option is still there, if you want it vote for it. It really is that simple.

Are a lot of blonde supporters sore losers? Yes yes they are

Are some people bad winners? Of course, but that doesn't change the facts

Are these points debatable? I don't think so. The majority not wanting blonde Shep is cold hard fact. How do you counter cold hard fact?

If you have any confusion after reading that which obviously you didn't, then I'll be very shocked.

Oh I did, I just have other things i'm doing right now and wanted to address your concerns first since you were refering to what I posted.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 21 août 2011 - 10:25 .

[gamer_girl]

But I do have to say this because I think I may explode if I don't:

In Poll 2 a voting block of the people who voted and won in poll 1, were
deprived of their voice/vote by an after thought poll/run-off.  That's
called voter disenfranchising, not exactly hard to understand. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png

Source: dictionary.com

Disenfranchise
1. To deprive (a person) of their right to vote or other rights of citizenship.

Is anybody being deprived of their voting rights? No, didn't think so. Before trying to act smug, learn what a word actually means. <_<

Modifié par gamer_girl, 21 août 2011 - 10:28 .

[Balek-Vriege]

gamer_girl wrote...

But I do have to say this because I think I may explod if I don't:

In Poll 2 a voting block of the people who voted and won in poll 1, were
deprived of their voice/vote by an after thought poll/run-off.  That's
called voter disenfranchising, not exactly hard to understand. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png

Source: dictionary.com

Disenfranchise
1. to deprive (a person) of the right to vote or other rights of citizenship

Is anybody being deprived of their voting rights? No, didn't think so. Before trying to act smug, learn what a word actually means.

You take this really personally don't you?  Two can play that game.   *continues to act "smug"*

disenfranchise - Merriam-Webster

1. Deprive (someone) of the right to vote.
2. Deprived of power; marginalized.


Disenfranchise - dictionary.com (your exact source)

1.  to deprive (a person) of a right of citizenship, as of the right to vote.
2. to deprive of a franshise, privilege, or right.

If I was you I would have used the Free Dictionary definition since it only included Deprive vote.  However if that was the case, then a lot of political pundits would be using the word inccorectly everyday.  Instead of trying to insult eachothers intelligence, maybe we should stick to the issue at hand.
 


Edits:Got the definitions from repective places mixed up in editing, fixed.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 21 août 2011 - 10:37 .

[Malanek]

LPPrince wrote...

I will quote someone from the Something Awful forums on their Deus Ex Human Revolution section.

Do note this is someone else from another forum(I lurk there only for DXHR for now).

Basically, this person has never played a Deus Ex game before and wondered if he/she should get it. Someone described the game a little, and then this person said the following.

Great Beer wrote...

So its cyberpunk Mass Effect with better music and a none of Biowares creepy nerd-pandering? Sold.

And I saw that and felt bad. Because I hope thats not how Bioware comes off to others outside of the BSN circle. Although I'm willing to bet there's some of us here who believe that.

I mean, Bioware does things to make us happy. But sometimes they've got to just stick with what they've got. While I believe they should've stuck with the blonde after poll #1, I have to ask the question-

Is Bioware pandering to the fans by making another poll?

BSN, you decide. I'm going to leave my opinion out of it because I'm not sure how to respond to that quote.

Pandering to fans is fine so long as they do not artistically compromise their work. Is having the high-res femshep a redhead such a thing? Of course it isn't.

It's a bit of a pity for the players who do like the blonde (like me) that Bioware offered it up and then cruelly yanked it away. But at the end of the day it isn't such a big thing. Some people, on both sides, are getting way too worked up over this. I'm quite disapointed at the lack of spirit this has been taken in.

As an aside, Deus-ex looks great.

[gamer_girl]

RynJ wrote...

Alright, I have to say.

Is blonde FemShep winning? No.

What does that mean? That the majority doesn't want her.

Does that mean that Bioware had the right idea by doing another poll about hair color? Yes

Why? Because the fans prefer a different color apparently.

Is it unfair to those who voted blonde in the first poll? No because the option is still there, if you want it vote for it. It really is that simple.

Are a lot of blonde supporters sore losers? Yes yes they are

Are some people bad winners? Of course, but that doesn't change the facts

Are these points debatable? I don't think so. The majority not wanting blonde Shep is cold hard fact. How do you counter cold hard fact?

Balek-Vriege wrote...

You forgot one:

Did Blonde Shep fairly win the first poll?  Yes.

Were the first poll's results fair? No because when the people who win are dissatisfied, that's a very faulty poll.

You make it sound like the first vote wasn't meant to count for anything when in fact it was, which changes:
 
"Is it unfair to those who voted blonde in the first poll?" from No to Maybe or Yes.

Is losing any poll unfair? No. That's the way polls work. It's when the winners have complaints that something has been done wrong.

Statistically based on the first poll, it can be argued that even if there was a VERY small % of people who voted for Blonde Shepard, but didn't like her hair colour, Blonde Shepard could still lose by having to overcome a large group of minorities united (especially since there's a bit of a split between blonde/dirty blonde).  That changes:
 
"Are these points debatable?" from I don't think so, to most likely.

Is removing the other voters just because it'll give blonde Shep a better chance even thought the first poll was scrapped fair? No.
To remove every voter except those who voted blonde Shep would be disenfranchisement. If you've forgotten the definition, read my previous post.

And no the points aren't debatable. There was a discrepancy with the first vote which resulted in even those who won being disappointed - a clear sign of an unsuccessful poll. They made a second poll that is fair, and blonde Shep is still an option. If you want her, vote for her. You can't blame BW for making a fair poll just because the one you prefer isn't winning.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 21 août 2011 - 10:42 .

[gamer_girl]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

But I do have to say this because I think I may explod if I don't:

In Poll 2 a voting block of the people who voted and won in poll 1, were
deprived of their voice/vote by an after thought poll/run-off.  That's
called voter disenfranchising, not exactly hard to understand. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png

Source: dictionary.com

Disenfranchise
1. to deprive (a person) of the right to vote or other rights of citizenship

Is anybody being deprived of their voting rights? No, didn't think so. Before trying to act smug, learn what a word actually means.

You take this really personally don't you?  Two can play that game.   *continues to act "smug"*

disenfranchise - Merriam-Webster

1. Deprive (someone) of the right to vote.
2. Deprived of power; marginalized.


Disenfranchise - dictionary.com (your exact source)

1.  to deprive (a person) of a right of citizenship, as of the right to vote.
2. to deprive of a franshise, privilege, or right.

If I was you I would have used the Free Dictionary definition since it only included Deprive vote.  However if that was the case, then a lot of political pundits would be using the word inccorectly everyday.  Instead of trying to insult eachothers intelligence, maybe we should stick to the issue at hand.
 


Edits:Got the definitions from repective places mixed up in editing, fixed.

Like I said before, nobody is being deprived of their right to vote. Everyone who has a facebook account can still go to the page and "like" the photos. Until they can't while others are able, there is no disenfranchisement.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 21 août 2011 - 10:41 .

[Vyse_Fina]

Guys! This is about the hair color of a videogame figure and you are seriously discussing whether or not Bioware is taking away your civil rights???

[gamer_girl]

Vyse_Fina wrote...

Guys! This is about the hair color of a videogame figure and you are seriously discussing whether or not Bioware is taking away your civil rights???

Haha apparently so. Dunno why anyone would feel rights aren't being met. But we should stop so this doesn't get locked. Political topics are a no no.

[Balek-Vriege]

gamer_girl wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

But I do have to say this because I think I may explod if I don't:

In Poll 2 a voting block of the people who voted and won in poll 1, were
deprived of their voice/vote by an after thought poll/run-off.  That's
called voter disenfranchising, not exactly hard to understand.

Source: dictionary.com

Disenfranchise
1. to deprive (a person) of the right to vote or other rights of citizenship

Is anybody being deprived of their voting rights? No, didn't think so. Before trying to act smug, learn what a word actually means.

You take this really personally don't you?  Two can play that game.   *continues to act "smug"*

disenfranchise - Merriam-Webster

1. Deprive (someone) of the right to vote.
2. Deprived of power; marginalized.


Disenfranchise - dictionary.com (your exact source)

1.  to deprive (a person) of a right of citizenship, as of the right to vote.
2. to deprive of a franshise, privilege, or right.

If I was you I would have used the Free Dictionary definition since it only included Deprive vote.  However if that was the case, then a lot of political pundits would be using the word inccorectly everyday.  Instead of trying to insult eachothers intelligence, maybe we should stick to the issue at hand.
 


Edits:Got the definitions from repective places mixed up in editing, fixed.

Like I said before, nobody is being deprived of their right to vote. Everyone who has a facebook account can still go to the page and "like" the photos. Until they can't while others are able, there is no disenfranchisement.

Did you read the varying definitions?  Maybe you should re-read and notice there's more to each definition.  Even in the second definition from dictionary.com you could argue a franchise, right or privelege was deprived, even if its a very small one. I hate playing dictionary wars anyways.  Its just a means of deflecting the debate when all involved know what the real debate is.

gamer_girl wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

You forgot one:

Did Blonde Shep fairly win the first poll?  Yes.

Were the first poll's results fair? No because when the people who win are dissatisfied, that's a very faulty poll.

You make it sound like the first vote wasn't meant to count for anything when in fact it was, which changes:
 
"Is it unfair to those who voted blonde in the first poll?" from No to Maybe or Yes.

Is losing any poll unfair? No. That's the way polls work. It's when the winners have complaints that something has been done wrong.

Winners in all type of polls and votes have complaints.  I bet I could find something I wanted to improve on the original Femshep 5 in a couple seconds.  We don't see people having new votes in politics every two seconds because a voting block didn't get 100% of what they wanted in a candidate, party, etc.  Like you said it's democracy, not consensus.

gamer_girl wrote...

Statistically based on the first poll, it can be argued that even if there was a VERY small % of people who voted for Blonde Shepard, but didn't like her hair colour, Blonde Shepard could still lose by having to overcome a large group of minorities united (especially since there's a bit of a split between blonde/dirty blonde).  That changes:
 
"Are these points debatable?" from I don't think so, to most likely.

Is removing the other voters just because it'll give blonde Shep a better chance even thought the first poll was scrapped fair? No.
To remove every voter except those who voted blonde Shep would be disenfranchisement. If you've forgotten the definition, read my previous post.

Again, I don't want other voters removed.  Never wanted them removed.  All I was saying was that naturally by having another poll, you give them a second chance to vote against blonde Shep and this time with a lot more power as a much larger voting block rather than divided by five.  You seem to really want to push this in one direction which never actually existed.

gamer_girl wrote...

And no the points aren't debatable. There was a discrepancy with the first vote which resulted in even those who won being disappointed - a clear sign of an unsuccessful poll. They made a second poll that is fair, and blonde Shep is still an option. If you want her, vote for her. You can't blame BW for making a fair poll just because the one you prefer isn't winning.

But we're debating it right now are we not.  How is it not debatable, because we wish it to be?

Not going to go into the numbers again.  Like I said take a look at my posts around page 73ish for my points.  We have gone from having a democratic vote where the rules were simple "vote for the one you like best and whomever gets the most votes wins" to an ad-hoc attempt to achieve consensus, at the expense of voters in the first poll.  Now, will the choice be a further compromise that everyone will get a little something out of Femshep 5?  Yes.

Does that mean the people who really liked Blonde Femshep have no right to complain, were treated fairly in the process and weren't "disfranchised" by the second poll?  No.

It comes down to people have the right to complain even if they're now a minority and even if not everyone agrees with them.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 21 août 2011 - 11:11 .

[blind black]

voted for brunette and red. couldnt decide

[gamer_girl]

Don't bring politics into this. A vote for a candidate is very very different from a vote to choose a Shep. The point is that the first vote was unfair, clearly as it yielded results that weren't actually solid, and if you dispute that, I'll be kind of surprised. Now they have a second vote where people only vote on one thing and that is hair colour. They got the face and hairstyle from the first poll, but to make things fair they added a choice of hair colour because the people that won were dissatisfied. Marketing to an audience to entice them into buying a game is by no means the same as getting an idea about who should be running politically. People want to target the absolute majority. And seeing as the winners were dissatisfied as well as the losers, that's two strikes against them. Why would they skip an opportunity to get more people to want the game just because an extremely small group of people actually liked blonde Shep? They wouldn't.

[Balek-Vriege]

gamer_girl wrote...

Don't bring politics into this. A vote for a candidate is very very different from a vote to choose a Shep. The point is that the first vote was unfair, clearly as it yielded results that weren't actually solid, and if you dispute that, I'll be kind of surprised. Now they have a second vote where people only vote on one thing and that is hair colour. They got the face and hairstyle from the first poll, but to make things fair they added a choice of hair colour because the people that won were dissatisfied. Marketing to an audience to entice them into buying a game is by no means the same as getting an idea about who should be running politically. People want to target the absolute majority. And seeing as the winners were dissatisfied as well as the losers, that's two strikes against them. Why would they skip an opportunity to get more people to want the game just because an extremely small group of people actually liked blonde Shep? They wouldn't.

True its a lot more like a beauty pageant or a covergirl for a magazine.  My main point wasn't even about politics really, just that in all forms of democratic voting whether its politics or which birthday cake to buy, there's not runoff votes in every aspect after the fact.

I totally agree with your marketing assessment.  I even made a similar point a couple pages back.  Basically I posted the best way imo to have done this would be:

-Controlled internal testing of Femsheps.
-Get six very appealing, marketing approved candidates.
-Hold a poll at Comicon.  Whoever wins gets to be Femshep.
-Start making a trailer of who wins, especially if the winner won by huge numbers.

Win win situation unless all your tested Femsheps fall flat.  Hey, Bioware may have already done this... save for the last 2...

As for the second part of your post.  It can actually hurt marketing with things which become perceived as "negative."  You might want the most appealing Femshep, but if she doesn't really bring in consumers in the first place, while the negative press (even from the first vote) turns people off, it could be a net loss for Bioware.  I have never believed in any publicity is good publicity.  The fact is a lot of people felt burned in the process from all sides and who knows if its even done yet.  That's a worst case scenario and I think the vast majority are pleased with a new Femshep period.

Again, that doesn't mean people who like blonde shep shouldn't voice their disappointment.  In the next couple days this issue will be forgotten (mostly) anyways like the first poll (until the second one came about).

Just an aside.  We don't know how big or small the voting blocks are in this.  For all we know a huge amount of people voting could be completely new.  The Bioware polls are anything but scientific...  another reason why a second poll is a bit iffy.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 21 août 2011 - 11:32 .

[Lucav5]

Raven femshep all the way, although none of the options would truly bother me as I have a custom shep anyway. /shrug

[gamer_girl]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Don't bring politics into this. A vote for a candidate is very very different from a vote to choose a Shep. The point is that the first vote was unfair, clearly as it yielded results that weren't actually solid, and if you dispute that, I'll be kind of surprised. Now they have a second vote where people only vote on one thing and that is hair colour. They got the face and hairstyle from the first poll, but to make things fair they added a choice of hair colour because the people that won were dissatisfied. Marketing to an audience to entice them into buying a game is by no means the same as getting an idea about who should be running politically. People want to target the absolute majority. And seeing as the winners were dissatisfied as well as the losers, that's two strikes against them. Why would they skip an opportunity to get more people to want the game just because an extremely small group of people actually liked blonde Shep? They wouldn't.

True its a lot more like a beauty pageant or a covergirl for a magazine.  My main point wasn't even about politics really, just that in all forms of democratic voting whether its politics or which birthday cake to buy, there's not runoff votes in every aspect after the fact.

I totally agree with your marketing assessment.  I even made a similar point a couple pages back.  Basically I posted the best way imo to have done this would be:

-Controlled internal testing of Femsheps.
-Get six very appealing, marketing approved candidates.
-Hold a poll at Comicon.  Whoever wins gets to be Femshep.
-Start making a trailer of who wins, especially if the winner won by huge numbers.

Win win situation unless all your tested Femsheps fall flat.  Hey, Bioware may have already done this... save for the last 2...

As for the second part of your post.  It can actually hurt marketing with things which become perceived as "negative."  You might want the most appealing Femshep, but if she doesn't really bring in consumers in the first place, while the negative press (even from the first vote) turns people off, it could be a net loss for Bioware.  I have never believed in any publicity is good publicity.  The fact is a lot of people felt burned in the process from all sides and who knows if its even done yet.  That's a worst case scenario and I think the vast majority are pleased with a new Femshep period.

Again, that doesn't mean people who like blonde shep shouldn't voice their disappointment.  In the next couple days this issue will be forgotten (mostly) anyways like the first poll (until the second one came about).

Just an aside.  We don't know how big or small the voting blocks are in this.  For all we know a huge amount of people voting could be completely new.  The Bioware polls are anything but scientific...  another reason why a second poll is a bit iffy.

Sure it hurts marketing for the select few that actually wanted blonde Shep just as she is. But it's a numbers game. If they can satisfy a greater group of people rather than settle for the few, they will do it. I don't remember the exact numbers of how many blonde Shep won by in the first poll but I know it was tens of thousands. Just because more people were given the opportunity to vote doesn't make the poll "a bit iffy" at all. In any revote anywhere the people who were eligible to vote before are still eligible the second time. Even if they chose not to vote the first time for whatever reason, they are still given the chance the second time.

[Balek-Vriege]

gamer_girl wrote...

Sure it hurts marketing for the select few that actually wanted blonde Shep just as she is. But it's a numbers game. If they can satisfy a greater group of people rather than settle for the few, they will do it. I don't remember the exact numbers of how many blonde Shep won by in the first poll but I know it was tens of thousands. Just because more people were given the opportunity to vote doesn't make the poll "a bit iffy" at all. In any revote anywhere the people who were eligible to vote before are still eligible the second time. Even if they chose not to vote the first time for whatever reason, they are still given the chance the second time.

Yep.  My only worries if I was Bioware would be the following when it comes to marketing and these polls:

1.  That Blonde Shepard winning the first poll didn't have a negative impact because of the bimbo stereotypes
2.  That by changing the hair colour, it doesn't come off as prejudice against blondes because of the major stereotyping beforehand (there was a lot in some gamer press).
3.  That word spreads about alleged unfairness and pandering for marketing reasons.  (unlikely)
4.  Begins a slipperly slope of fan disapproval like what happened in DA2 (possible)

My two hopes if I was Bioware are:

1.  Other gamers not fans of Mass Effect already aren't really following this issue (and they're not).  What's getting out there in the general gamer world is that there's a new Femshep, she's going to have her own trailer and yes, there is a female option in ME1 and ME2.

2.  This whole voting thing dies down and people accept the new Femshep whoever she is (highly likely)

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 21 août 2011 - 11:52 .

[gamer_girl]

Haha ya I hope the same really.

[Balek-Vriege]

gamer_girl wrote...

Haha ya I hope the same really.

Same.  I bet when the trailer comes out everyone debating will probably be saying:  "Awsome"

[rpgfan321]

I kind of wished, when they posted FemShep for voting, they enlarged the face a bit more instead of the entire body. I say this because after I saw the HD photos on the ME website did I notice that there were subtle differences in facial structures and hair. My initial impression was that they have the same face. Didn't notice even the varying hair styles especially on #3.

Then again I don't have a Facebook account. So....

[AssassinsReign]

You guys are putting too much thought into this.....

[Evilatem]

didymos1120 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

This vaguely reminds me of Rebecca Black.

It’s Friday, Friday

Gotta get Reaped on Friday

Everybody’s lookin’ forward to the harvest, harvest

Friday, Friday

Gettin’ Reaped on Friday

Everybody’s lookin’ forward to the harvest

This will not be stated without repercussions!

www.youtube.com/watch

[Biotic Sage]

AssassinsReign wrote...

You guys are putting too much thought into this.....

Word.

[Syledir]

Vyse_Fina wrote...

Guys! This is about the hair color of a videogame figure and you are seriously discussing whether or not Bioware is taking away your civil rights???

Actually, it's more about the way how BioWare handled this hole mess. And how people react. The original poll was a nice idea. 6 femsheps. 1 winner (#5). 5 losers (including the lovely #3 who scored third place). The poll was not always respectfull but in the end it was fun. The rules were easy. The one with the most votes wins. Not the one with the most votes wins, but if you complaign enough and know enough insults against the winner, BioWare will disregard what they promised. Pornstar, Barbie, supid Blonde. If I think about it, I am almost glad the #3 didn't win. I can only imagine what people would have said, if an asian femshep would have scored first. 

They say it was the hairstyle. If that would have been the case, why didn't they give every femshep from #1 till #6 the hairstyle of #5 and let the people decide again?

Imagine this happened in real life. "Sorry Mr. Obama but many
supporters gave you their vote out of the fact that you are afro-american. So
lets start a second poll. People can choose between Nelson Mandela, Denzel
Washington, Barack Obama and Tiger Woods. Since you won the first poll with
ease, it shouldn't be a problem to win the second poll aswell. What? No,
I'm sure the Clinton and McCain supporters will hold no grudge against you.
These are grown people. Surely they wouldn't vote for another candidate simply
out of spite." Aha<_<

No, I don't want to bring in politics and yes, I know this wouldn't happen in real life. But let's pretend. McCain supporters voted for him because he was a Republican and Clinton supporters voted for her because she was a woman. It's the principle that matters. Who are they going to support know? I can't tell, but I can tell you who they won't support, especially if the original winner beat the so easily during the second poll. It's the principle that matters. It's the same in politics, sports or any other contest you can think of. Combine all the minorities and you'll be the majority.

It's not the hairstyle. It's the colour. If that would be true, why don't they look all the same? 3 out of the 4 femsheps of the second poll look exactly the same. They are all #5 with different haircolour, except the redhead. She is actually #2 (scored fifth place) from the first poll with the hairstyle of #5. Minor differences? Maybe, but they are there and you can see them even on low-res pictures.

Some guys/girls said that people voted for red femshep because of her haircolour not her freckles or green eyes. I don't know that and they don't know that. They said that most people mentioned only the haircolour, not her other features. Well, the red hair IS her most prominent feature. They called #5 blonde shep after all, not the one with the birthmark under her eye.

Some people say that BioWare don't like a blonde femshep and prefer a redhead. There is absolutely no proof that this is true.
However the original default femshep of ME1 and 2 has red hair and green eyes and will be playable in ME3.
Red femshep of the second poll recieved special treatment from BioWare by making her the most unique out of the 4 options.
During the production of DA:O and DA2 Leliana and Aveline (both redheads) were developed as red haired NPCs and stayed with that decision. 
Bright haired NPCs however (Miranda from ME2, Cassandra Pentaghast and Bethany Hawke (both from DA2) were originally developed as blonde/white haired NPCs, yet they all ended up with dark hair. A fate that Lillith from the game Borderlands (NOT BIOWARE) shared by the way. She became a redhead.

Red haired women have a tough life!
I have to admit I have never heard of a "Kick the Ginger Day" until now. That doesn't mean redheads don't get treated poorly in some regions of the planet. But in no country I have lived in and especially not in the media. Movies, Comics, Games, blablabla. There are red haired heroines everywhere. Red Sonja, Red Zora, Scarlett from G.I. Joe, Marvel's Black Widow and Mary Jane, Conan's Tamara, Rayne,Ginny Weasly, Claire Redfield. I think you get the idea. (Ironically most of these women are played by blonde actresses).
Blondes however are usually seen as morons and f**ktoys. Not a single person I have met who doesn't know dozens of jokes about blonde women. Not a Playboy magazine or PrOn-Movie without at least a dozen Blondes. When you are in a fight with a woman who happens to be blonde, you know exactly how to insult her.
To all the Ladies with red hair. If you had a tough life or still have it. I am really, really sorry. I mean it. But do not pretend you are the only one.

After all, the real question is: What is BioWare going to do now?

I would suggest to use the 6 femsheps from the original poll as the new presets for the character creation. Make them as detailed as possible.

Replace #2 with the original default femshep from ME1 and 2. Now don't get greedy redhead fans.

The new default femshep should be the winner of the second poll. Meaning redhead box and redhead trailer. If it is possible give the players the other semi-default femsheps of the second poll. Meaning possible haircolours blonde, black and dark blonde; no freckles but the birthmark. There can only be one real default femshep, right?

If that is not possible at least leave #5 like she is as a new preset, including the hairstyle and the birthmark. That way black hair fans can recreate their favourite in a second.

I think that would be the best course of action at that point.

P.S. I still think about that one post. The BSN is full of the worst people humanity has to offer. The people here can be know-it-alls, full of spite and damn right annoying but BioWare fans are also the most passionate, most faithfull and the best lookingB). The BSN is also full of the best humanity has to offer.

P.P.S. @BioWare.
We already have a dark haired heroine (Hawke), and most likely a red haired heroine (Shepard). Next time you create a new franchise and make a default female character, don't make a poll, make her blonde. And make her badass damnit.

[Biotic Sage]

Syledir wrote...

* A wall of text * (basic message: blondes deserve more prevalance in the media as something besides bimbos)

You should start a Super PAC dedicated to giving blondes the recognition they deserve!

On another note, while I sympathize with your campaign and opinion, you may want to think about focusing your brain energies into a more productive aspect of life.  Even within the extremely specific subculture of video game forums, this is waaayyy too in depth for such a miniature detail/aspect of a game.  I'm only trying to look out for you; I too struggle with OCD tendencies quite often.

Edit* With that being said, I am now going to go continue my job search, because that is much more important than the BSN (but dammit, not as addictive or fun).  Thanks for helping me put things in perspective.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 22 août 2011 - 09:21 .