252 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's interesting that all slave atrocities we've heard about in Tevinter are magical and utilitarian in nature. Do they just not bother with mundane abuse because it's less helpful?

Well, Fenris doesn't really want to talk about it but one of the devs confirmed in an interview that Danarius was also using him for a sex slave. Which has let to some truly horrifying jokes about Fenris' lyrium tattoos.

[Xilizhra]

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's interesting that all slave atrocities we've heard about in Tevinter are magical and utilitarian in nature. Do they just not bother with mundane abuse because it's less helpful?

Well, Fenris doesn't really want to talk about it but one of the devs confirmed in an interview that Danarius was also using him for a sex slave. Which has let to some truly horrifying jokes about Fenris' lyrium tattoos.

Shame; that might lead to mild unfortunate implications, considering how swishy-hipped Danarius is.

As for horrifying jokes, do they have to do with glowing lyrium-imbued bodily fluids? I already knew that; in fact, I wondered once whether drinking enough of them would turn one into a templar.

[Rifneno]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

Shame; that might lead to mild unfortunate implications, considering how swishy-hipped Danarius is.[/quote]

I can safely say I have never noticed Danarius' hips look.

[/quote]As for horrifying jokes, do they have to do with glowing lyrium-imbued bodily fluids? I already knew that; in fact, I wondered once whether drinking enough of them would turn one into a templar.[/quote]

Oh God no! Flooding back the awful memories of having to explain the inaccuracies of a godawful FFVII M/M 'fic where Cloud had that same gimmick from the mako infusion. ... Where's the nearest fascist templar? I demand to be made tranquil!

[Xilizhra]

[quote]I can safely say I have never noticed Danarius' hips look.[/quote[
It's more the way he walks. He's... generous about swinging his hips.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

I can safely say I have never noticed Danarius' hips look.

It's more the way he walks. He's... generous about swinging his hips.

Hmm. I'm not quite up on my gay innuendo, but from what I gather wouldn't that be better for Fenris?

... The places these threads go... *takes another swig of arsenic*

[Sinaxi]

Xilizhra wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's interesting that all slave atrocities we've heard about in Tevinter are magical and utilitarian in nature. Do they just not bother with mundane abuse because it's less helpful?

Well, Fenris doesn't really want to talk about it but one of the devs confirmed in an interview that Danarius was also using him for a sex slave. Which has let to some truly horrifying jokes about Fenris' lyrium tattoos.

Shame; that might lead to mild unfortunate implications, considering how swishy-hipped Danarius is.

As for horrifying jokes, do they have to do with glowing lyrium-imbued bodily fluids? I already knew that; in fact, I wondered once whether drinking enough of them would turn one into a templar.

Hm..I didn't know devs confirmed he was used as a sex slave. But ugh, yes...when I saw him walk towards Hawke off the staircase with the girl animation I was like sooo creepy.

[Rifneno]

Tidra wrote...

Hm..I didn't know devs confirmed he was used as a sex slave. But ugh, yes...when I saw him walk towards Hawke off the staircase with the girl animation I was like sooo creepy.

Yeah, this link has been floating around a lot recently. Lots of fun stuff, like the Danarius bit or the story of "the staff of a million penises."

[Sinaxi]

Ahh yeah, I'd heard about the majority of things on that list already. Anders not having a cat is...just..so wrong. I wish they had done the model..even if it just sat stationary and meowed at the occasional passerby lol. And...there are a lot of mods out there that make Isabela pale...it's a little weird. Doesn't even fit in with the story, as far as pants go there are mods for that too...but Isabela definitely needs no pants

[piez]

After meeting the Arishok, I would side with Tevinter. Not happily, but I'd rather see Thedas maintain status quo than have the Qun spread and forcibly taught to everyone. Hell, I'm not a fan of how much control the Chantry has, so there's no way the Qunari are getting any support from me. Feel free to do what you will on your own lands, guys, but keep your restrictive, flawed philosophy to yourselves.

[Icy Magebane]

I'm going to have to disagree with the OP. This notion that the Tevinter Imperium is "evil," while glossing over the fact that Qunari use Qamek to destroy the minds of non-believers and make them into automatons is the biggest problem I see. You focus on the Tevinters' use of slaves, but the Qunari also keep slaves. As I see it, destroying a person's mind in addition to enslaving them is the greater crime. At least a normal slave is still human (or elf, or dwarf, or what have you).

If this were the focus of the next game, I don't see myself siding with the Qunari very often, if ever.

[Urzon]

Icy Magebane wrote...

I'm going to have to disagree with the OP. This notion that the Tevinter Imperium is "evil," while glossing over the fact that Qunari use Qamek to destroy the minds of non-believers and make them into automatons is the biggest problem I see. You focus on the Tevinters' use of slaves, but the Qunari also keep slaves. As I see it, destroying a person's mind in addition to enslaving them is the greater crime. At least a normal slave is still human (or elf, or dwarf, or what have you).

If this were the focus of the next game, I don't see myself siding with the Qunari very often, if ever.

You are free to disagree, though i never said the Qun was better, same, or worse than the Imperium. To the modern person and Thedasian(...?), they are just different shades of bad.

I only pointed out the Tevinter use of slaves because it was key to their side of the speculation. Their side would be sacrificing them by the hundreds and thousands. Their alters and spell circles would be streaming rivers of blood to fuel spells to boil the blood of the masses of Qun soldiers. Then they would be sacrificing ever more to mass summon demons from the Fade.

But when they get dragged to the alter kicking and screaming, calling out for loved ones, mercy, or just crying because they know what is about to come... At least the slave is still human (or elf, or dwarf, or what have you).

Sometimes still having your mind while being a slave is more of a punishment that not having it.

[Icy Magebane]

Being a slave is nothing compared to being lobotomized... IMO, anyway. I just don't think the Qunari are in any way the good guys. I've had a few Hawkes that sided with them, but I'm not always a good guy either. The Tevinter Imperium may take slaves, but at least there's a chance for freedom. If you wind up a slave in Par Vollen, you aren't getting out. When they're done with you, you won't know who you used to be and you won't have even a faint idea that there's anything beyond slavery. I see that as the greater evil.

[ImoenBaby]

Rifneno wrote...


Someone disapproves of an analogy that conflicts with their viewpoints. I'm shocked. Truly.

What are you talking about.

Non-sequitor means "does not follow".  As in your response to my statement was a non-sequitor. The analogy is not relevant in other words.  

Me: The Imperium cannot be categorized under free will, as it's a slave state. 
You: The United States and many other modern societies used to be slave societies too.

Note how Tevinter's slave state is a still a slave state regardless of the modern United States.  Also, the analogy is poorly supported as nothing about Tevinter currently suggests it will evolve into a humane society.

As opposed to the history of... pretty much any real country where slaves were raped, beaten (often times to death), starved, and any number of other atrocities that would leave any of us curled up in a ball on the floor of a therapist's office from merely witnessing it.

Sure. What are you suggesting? Tevinter is still a slave society. Therefore, choosing the Imperium isn't a vote for free will, which I said with much more brevity in my original post. 

[Neminea]

To be fair, I can forgive a lot of things in fiction that I wouldn't irl.
I am not a "the end justifies the means" type of person, so irl would probably not have forgiven Sten, Zevran, Anders, heck even Justice in da:a. Come to think on it, I don't think there are any compagnions I would like to have with me if it had been real *ponders* well maybe alistair, wynne and varric. In game however I have no problem with forgiving any of those, depending on what I had in mind rp wise for the character that I am playing.

[The Baconer]

Filament wrote...
If I had to choose, I might choose qunari because at least they strive to follow principles, though their implementation often shows a great deal of hypocrisy, one could say. But I don't get the sense that Tevinter strive to have any principles at all. It's just, do whatever you can to get yours, and crush whoever gets in your way. Even Fenris' sister did it to her own brother.

And even Fenris did it to his own fellow slaves!

[dragonflight288]

I think it needs mentioning that Fenris mentioned one Archon actually made slavery illegal. All the other magisters quickly assassinated him because Tevinter would crumble without slaves. They used them for so long that they don't know how to handle themselves without slaves.

Not in defense of the Qunari, but I think that's an interesting fact to be added into this fascinating debate.

[Rifneno]

Filament wrote...

Being a slave isn't nothing compared to anything IMO... they kill their slaves literally for fun and profit in Tevinter. Qunari principles take on some barbaric forms but I wouldn't call any of it more barbaric than slavery.

Except that the Qunari enslave conquered peoples unwilling to convert.  I wouldn't call it more barbarically than slavery... because it IS slavery.

[Xilizhra]

Actually, I might be wrong about the qunari not having Tranquility. Qamek does largely the same thing.

[expanding panic]

I'd let those two fight and destroy each other. Meanwhile I'd be gathering my own army. When the Qun/Tevinter war ended the winner would be weakened. Then I'd march in and concur who ever is reaming and then create my own utopia.

But if that's not a choice I'm siding with the Tevinter. I'll always chose freedom over Tyrany .

Modifié par expanding panic, 21 août 2011 - 12:44 .

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Actually, I might be wrong about the qunari not having Tranquility. Qamek does largely the same thing.

It reminds me more of the story of Clairvius Narcisse.  Supposedly they were using a fairly primitive drug made mostly from jimsonweed to shut down higher brain function while still letting the victim carry out simple tasks.  Jimsonweed is actually nicknamed "zombie cucumber" because of its ability to put some poor sap in a zombielike state (i.e. up and around but not really able to think for themselves).  I've often wondered whether that was actually the base story behind the qamek like how the story behind the Countress is...  actually, if anyone doesn't know the story behind that, count yourselves lucky. 

[Xilizhra]

I don't know why, but I had a sudden image of Tevinter recreating the ritual they used to sink Arlathan to do the same to Par Vollen.

[Rifneno]

Filament wrote...

I didn't necessarily say it was less barbaric than slavery. I was disputing that it was more barbaric, such that slavery is "nothing" in comparison.

Hmm. Perhaps. I maintain though that Tevinter has a much higher chance of eventually becoming a decent society than the Qunari.