295 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

IanPolaris wrote...

Sure but that's why the Sold-In number is always higher (often significantly higher) than the actual retail sales figure (it's a good way to make a financial report for shareholders look better than it really is and it's a well known gambit by stockholders).  Thus 2 million "sold in" is reasonably about 1.5 million sold more or less.

-Polaris

Given that the two million mark was reached by the end of the first 2011 quarter (March 31st), damn good job. I wish our company could have such numbers to deliver in our reports.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ariella wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ariella wrote...

You refuse to include anyone who liked Da2 in the core audience, when you make statements like that, Ian. I'd be careful.

I've been a fan of Bioware and its games since the release of BG2. Does that include me in the core audience? Wait, I loved DAII....so that settles that.

You and me both, so where does that leave us?

I don't know about you, but Perse is a freak of nature that is a fan of Bioware from way back, who likes DA2 and TW2.
I am not sure anyone could classify her into anything

[IanPolaris]

Persephone wrote...

Ariella wrote...

You refuse to include anyone who liked Da2 in the core audience, when you make statements like that, Ian. I'd be careful.

I've been a fan of Bioware and its games since the release of BG2. Does that include me in the core audience? Wait, I loved DAII....so that settles that.

Split: vt. 1. To cut apart.  2. Render into more than one piece.

I chose my words carefully when I said that DA2 SPLIT the fanbase.  It did.  That means that there was more than one opinion.

-Polaris

[Persephone]

seraphymon wrote...
 The idea of ML doesnt like DAo as much isnt fiction for me, based on what he says on DAo and how he reacts to it, theres alot of signs to it, and IMO  he doesnt really care for it.

Legacy begs to differ. Just sayin'.

[Gunderic]

Persephone wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Persephone wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Yeah, I'm sure they credited him in the PC version because he has such a great smile. Just saying too.

Nope.  It is simplier than that.  ML took over just before DAO went Gold.  Since ML was "in charge" when DAO went gold for the PC, ML got the title credit.  Simple as that.

-Polaris

And I am sure he was not involved in the creative process before or after, why would he, given that DAO is put on a pedestal and therefore he could not positively have been contributing to it, right?

I think he worked on some DLC, actually.

They have their own credits. If you work on DLC, you will be mentioned there, not in the credits of the main game.

I'm aware; I was just talking.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Ariella wrote...

You refuse to include anyone who liked Da2 in the core audience, when you make statements like that, Ian. I'd be careful.

I've been a fan of Bioware and its games since the release of BG2. Does that include me in the core audience? Wait, I loved DAII....so that settles that.

You and me both, so where does that leave us?

I don't know about you, but Perse is a freak of nature that is a fan of Bioware from way back, who likes DA2 and TW2.
I am not sure anyone could classify her into anything

KOP, don't go on spreading my secrets all over BSN!! They must not know!!

[IanPolaris]

Persephone wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Sure but that's why the Sold-In number is always higher (often significantly higher) than the actual retail sales figure (it's a good way to make a financial report for shareholders look better than it really is and it's a well known gambit by stockholders).  Thus 2 million "sold in" is reasonably about 1.5 million sold more or less.

-Polaris

Given that the two million mark was reached by the end of the first 2011 quarter (March 31st), damn good job. I wish our company could have such numbers to deliver in our reports.

It doesn't look so good when (IIRC) a huge amount was due to preorders and sales dropped off a cliff after two weeks.  Also be sure you are comparing apples to applies.  DAO sold about 3.8 mil give or take.  Since DA2 was supposed to be a sequel and was supposed to attract a broader audience, it's target was almost surely at least that if not higher (I am guessing 5 million but that's a guess on my part).  Certainly it failed to meet that target in spectacular fashion.  Enough said.

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I don't know about you, but Perse is a freak of nature that is a fan of Bioware from way back, who likes DA2 and TW2.
I am not sure anyone could classify her into anything

KOP, don't go on spreading my secrets all over BSN!! They must not know!!

Don't worry, I'll keep the dirty details to myself

[IanPolaris]

Persephone wrote...

seraphymon wrote...
 The idea of ML doesnt like DAo as much isnt fiction for me, based on what he says on DAo and how he reacts to it, theres alot of signs to it, and IMO  he doesnt really care for it.

Legacy begs to differ. Just sayin'.

Legacy is Bioware's attempt to save the franchise IMO and for that it's not terrible.  However the franchise will sink or swim on DA3 if and when it's published.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I've been working in games since 2002, and I've worked on 5 different titles across multiple platforms, and I've never once worked with a lead who wasn't intimately aware of and familiar with every feature and design decision in their field (art, tech, design) going into the game, even if brought on late to a project. Trying to diminish anyone's contribution as lead anything on a game development team, especially late in the project when people are working the 80+ hour weeks, is a grave disservice.

I'm certain that ML was intimately familiar with all the things you say, but they weren't his decisions and it was far too late for him to alter them.  As such you can't use DAO (PC version) as a fair representation of ML's work.  He didn't have enough time to put his imprint on it however familiar he might have been with it.

-Polaris

[Persephone]

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Sure but that's why the Sold-In number is always higher (often significantly higher) than the actual retail sales figure (it's a good way to make a financial report for shareholders look better than it really is and it's a well known gambit by stockholders).  Thus 2 million "sold in" is reasonably about 1.5 million sold more or less.

-Polaris

Given that the two million mark was reached by the end of the first 2011 quarter (March 31st), damn good job. I wish our company could have such numbers to deliver in our reports.

It doesn't look so good when (IIRC) a huge amount was due to preorders and sales dropped off a cliff after two weeks.  Also be sure you are comparing apples to applies.  DAO sold about 3.8 mil give or take.  Since DA2 was supposed to be a sequel and was supposed to attract a broader audience, it's target was almost surely at least that if not higher (I am guessing 5 million but that's a guess on my part).  Certainly it failed to meet that target in spectacular fashion.  Enough said.

-Polaris

400 000 preorders. Now if it had been 1.2 million pre-orders, I might agree.

3.8 mill for DAO are SOLD IN numbers as well. Reached in almost two years, not three WEEKS. And DAII is still selling, Legacy seems to have given it a boost as of late as well.

[Persephone]

IanPolaris wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I've been working in games since 2002, and I've worked on 5 different titles across multiple platforms, and I've never once worked with a lead who wasn't intimately aware of and familiar with every feature and design decision in their field (art, tech, design) going into the game, even if brought on late to a project. Trying to diminish anyone's contribution as lead anything on a game development team, especially late in the project when people are working the 80+ hour weeks, is a grave disservice.

I'm certain that ML was intimately familiar with all the things you say, but they weren't his decisions and it was far too late for him to alter them.  As such you can't use DAO (PC version) as a fair representation of ML's work.  He didn't have enough time to put his imprint on it however familiar he might have been with it.

-Polaris

And you know this how? Pure, heavily biased SPECULATION. Nothing more. DAO was and is part of Mike Laidlaw's work. Like it or not.

[IanPolaris]

Persephone wrote...

400 000 preorders. Now if it had been 1.2 million pre-orders, I might agree.

Actually if you add the 400,000 preorders with about 700,000 in the first week or two before word got out what DA2 was really like, you get very close to that 1.2 million.

3.8 mill for DAO are SOLD IN numbers as well. Reached in almost two years, not three WEEKS. And DAII is still selling, Legacy seems to have given it a boost as of late as well.

No.  3.8 million is actual sales numbers (best estimate).

-Polaris

[Persephone]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Persephone wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Yeah, I'm sure they credited him in the PC version because he has such a great smile. Just saying too.

Nope.  It is simplier than that.  ML took over just before DAO went Gold.  Since ML was "in charge" when DAO went gold for the PC, ML got the title credit.  Simple as that.

-Polaris

And I am sure he was not involved in the creative process before or after, why would he, given that DAO is put on a pedestal and therefore he could not positively have been contributing to it, right?

I've been working in games since 2002, and I've worked on 5 different titles across multiple platforms, and I've never once worked with a lead who wasn't intimately aware of and familiar with every feature and design decision in their field (art, tech, design) going into the game, even if brought on late to a project. Trying to diminish anyone's contribution as lead anything on a game development team, especially late in the project when people are working the 80+ hour weeks, is a grave disservice.

Exactly. *Persephone approves +100*

[IanPolaris]

Persephone wrote...

And you know this how? Pure, heavily biased SPECULATION. Nothing more. DAO was and is part of Mike Laidlaw's work. Like it or not.

Simple logistics.  EA was pushing heavily on BW to get DAO out the door (it had been delayed before EA bought BW and was a legacy product).  ML simply didn't have the time.  Accept that or not.  I no longer care.

-Polaris

[csfteeeer]

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

3.8 mill for DAO are SOLD IN numbers as well. Reached in almost two years, not three WEEKS. And DAII is still selling, Legacy seems to have given it a boost as of late as well.

No.  3.8 million is actual sales numbers (best estimate).

-Polaris

and those numbers don't include digital sales.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 18 août 2011 - 08:29 .

[Persephone]

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

400 000 preorders. Now if it had been 1.2 million pre-orders, I might agree.

Actually if you add the 400,000 preorders with about 700,000 in the first week or two before word got out what DA2 was really like, you get very close to that 1.2 million.

3.8 mill for DAO are SOLD IN numbers as well. Reached in almost two years, not three WEEKS. And DAII is still selling, Legacy seems to have given it a boost as of late as well.

No.  3.8 million is actual sales numbers (best estimate).

-Polaris

Estimates for everything, nothing clear or proven. From an unreliable site. Never mind that it had 2 years to get there.

[IanPolaris]

Persephone wrote...

Estimates for everything, nothing clear or proven. From an unreliable site. Never mind that it had 2 years to get there.

That might be a point except DAO has been outselling DA2 (in spite of the fact DAO is two years older) since April 2010 which means that the gap between the two is actually getting bigger and not smaller.

-Polaris

[Persephone]

csfteeeer wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

3.8 mill for DAO are SOLD IN numbers as well. Reached in almost two years, not three WEEKS. And DAII is still selling, Legacy seems to have given it a boost as of late as well.

No.  3.8 million is actual sales numbers (best estimate).

-Polaris

and those numbers don't include digital sales.

Which matter in DAO's case but not DAII's. I see.

And my latest info is still that the 3.8 mill are sold in copies. Any indication outside of VChartz that that isn't so? I'd really like to know. As in sincerely.

[Persephone]

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Estimates for everything, nothing clear or proven. From an unreliable site. Never mind that it had 2 years to get there.

That might be a point except DAO has been outselling DA2 (in spite of the fact DAO is two years older) since April 2010 which means that the gap between the two is actually getting bigger and not smaller.

-Polaris

What part of sequels giving its predecessors a boost is new?

[IanPolaris]

Persephone wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

3.8 mill for DAO are SOLD IN numbers as well. Reached in almost two years, not three WEEKS. And DAII is still selling, Legacy seems to have given it a boost as of late as well.

No.  3.8 million is actual sales numbers (best estimate).

-Polaris

and those numbers don't include digital sales.

Which matter in DAO's case but not DAII's. I see.

And my latest info is still that the 3.8 mill are sold in copies. Any indication outside of VChartz that that isn't so? I'd really like to know. As in sincerely.

So you are saying that VChartz is underestimating DA2's sales but overestimating DAOs even though both are put out by the same company using the same distribution network.  Really?!?

I did say that the numbers for both did not include digital sales, but please wake up and smell the napalm.  DA2 flopped in the marketplace since it was a sequal to DAO and that set the standard.  It is what it is.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Persephone wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Estimates for everything, nothing clear or proven. From an unreliable site. Never mind that it had 2 years to get there.

That might be a point except DAO has been outselling DA2 (in spite of the fact DAO is two years older) since April 2010 which means that the gap between the two is actually getting bigger and not smaller.

-Polaris

What part of sequels giving its predecessors a boost is new?

It's new and remarkable when a sequal does not outsell it's predessor.  Enough said.

-Polaris

[csfteeeer]

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Estimates for everything, nothing clear or proven. From an unreliable site. Never mind that it had 2 years to get there.

That might be a point except DAO has been outselling DA2 (in spite of the fact DAO is two years older) since April 2010 which means that the gap between the two is actually getting bigger and not smaller.

-Polaris

What part of sequels giving its predecessors a boost is new?

It's new and remarkable when a sequal does not outsell it's predessor.  Enough said.

-Polaris

To be fair though, it usually takes a little while before the sequels surpass or even reach a prequel, BUT, by Now DA2 should have surpassed DAO or at least come close.

[Persephone]

IanPolaris wrote...

I did say that the numbers for both did not include digital sales, but please wake up and smell the napalm.  DA2 flopped in the marketplace since it was a sequal to DAO and that set the standard.  It is what it is.

-Polaris

I am not buying VChartz nonsense for either game, just to clarify.

Yes, keep thinking that it flopped based on bias, unreliable sites and your own exaggerated hatred for the game. It truly is what it is.

And that is: A game I enjoy, that did well enough (Though not as well as its predecessor which is nothing to be ashamed of. Happens all the time) even though it was not a Titanic like blockbuster. Sales matter little to me and are no indication of quality. That's why Twilight sells like crazy.

As long as the DA franchise remains alive I am happy. Legacy indicates great effort and attention. If Bioware keeps that up, I have no complaints.

[Persephone]

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Estimates for everything, nothing clear or proven. From an unreliable site. Never mind that it had 2 years to get there.

That might be a point except DAO has been outselling DA2 (in spite of the fact DAO is two years older) since April 2010 which means that the gap between the two is actually getting bigger and not smaller.

-Polaris

What part of sequels giving its predecessors a boost is new?

It's new and remarkable when a sequal does not outsell it's predessor.  Enough said.

-Polaris

It really is not, you know. Happens all the time. In successful franchises even.