69 réponses à ce sujet

[herecomesthethunder69]

I find pumping into Dexterity to be much more effective.

[pokemaughan]

I put Con at 18 and use the rest for whatever else I need. A nice set of armor/accessories makes up for any lack of health.

[Terwox_]

I tend to use Shale as tank, unless I play the tank myself. And with nearly 400 hp I'd have to say. No con isn't useless.

Although dex is also important.

Modifié par Terwox_, 21 novembre 2009 - 05:48 .

[Valamyr]

Yep. Blood Mage stat.

[jackofall1]

Con is the 3rd most important stat for a tank, or any class really.



For warriors, you need to pump str and dex up first to meet your talent requirements and wear awesome gear. IMO, Armor value > health value, hands down.



Once you meet the dex requirements for talents, and enough str to wear the best gear, you can dump remaining points into con for extra breathing room.

[Tyrax Lightning]

2H Warrior wants Str & Con above all, no more than tertiary Dex. DW wants Str & Dex, & Shield wants all the Con they can get cause they're the damage sponge.

[Spava]

I've been pumpin' Shale up with Con. He's the main tank in my party with 420 HP, never lost him in battle (playin' on normal).
So yeah, pretty usefull for tanks

Modifié par Spava, 21 novembre 2009 - 08:36 .

[Darthain]

I tend to invest in con/willpower fairly equally after I get my damage stats where I want them. Shale and Dog I use more binary str and con. I prefer willpower to con in most cases as it keeps your tactical options open, and they can make more difference in battle than a few more HP.

There are pretty much 2 strategies here, the lame MMO tank and spank, outheal the damage. Or a complete control approach to combat, (which I prefer) where you don't even need a healer in the party to execute, as the damage you receive is usually pretty slim (in comparison to the other method)

If you play the game as tank and spank instead of tactical combat, con is very useful.  When I am playing nightmare with Alistair, Dog, Human noble dagger rogue assassin (mostly rogue and assassin skills so far, will get either riposte or momentum soon, only have the passive ones in the one tree - the last one) and morrigan (has heal, but no other heal spell, lots of sleep/paralyze/cold) and just roll the game ridiculously. 

Modifié par Darthain, 21 novembre 2009 - 11:06 .

[DragoonKain3]

DEX tanks are far more resilient than CON tanks in higher difficulties, due to damage scaling.

[Faerell Gustani]

I've found shale to be a horrid tank. She's got no armor, nor a decent defense score.

All of that HP goes away very fast when every attack hits an when they all hit for unmitigated damage. So when Alistair gets hit hit for 10 damage, Shale will get hit for 30. So Shale's 400 HP doesn't really compare to Alistair's 300 HP when his count for 3x due to armor...not mentioning defense.



So Constitution useless? No, not useless, but not the most useful either. You need to combine it with other things (armor, and defense) to increase the value geometrically.

[Spava]

Okay, I’ve been doing some research on this, because... well apparently I have nothing better to do on a Saturday night (swine flu ruined me and ma girlfriend’s weekend). And I must conclude that I have to eat my words. It does look like DEX is as  important (prolly more) as CON:

Let’s take a look:

CON:
Constitution represents health and resilience. Higher constitution directly increases the amount of damage a character can take before falling on the battlefield.

Each point of Constitution adds:

+5 maximum health.
+0.5 points to Physical Resistance.


Hp is good for a tank, we can all agree on that. Physical Resistance makes ya tank more resilient against physical CC, like stuns and knockdowns. Pretty useful for boss tankin’  

DEX:
Dexterity is the measure of agility, reflexes, and balance. Higher dexterity improves a character's chances to hit, increases attack speed, makes the character more likely to dodge incoming blows.

Each point of Dexterity adds: 

+0.5 to Attack with all weapons.
+1.0 to Defense.
+0.5 points to Physical Resistance


Dexterity has also other effects, (adding dmg bonus to ranged and daggers) but nothing a tank could benefit from, well unless ya planning to tank with a dagger.

Anyways, as we can see DEX also adds to Physical Resistance, just like CON. DEX gives ya defense which will make the tank more flexible in combat, so he’ll be really good at playing dodge ball^^   

So I guess it’s a bit mixing them out.

A tank does need constitutions, because without health he’ll die faster.

A tank does need dexterity, because without defense he’ll be like a big punching bag, getting hit all the time will force your heal to use more power on keeping him alive.

Modifié par Spava, 21 novembre 2009 - 11:40 .

[DragoonKain3]

Actually, stacking defense actually means that he'll be hit so rarely that healing him is just an afterthought, if even at that. It's the constant hits the CON tank gets that require more healer power; in nightmare, MUCH more healer power due to enemy increased damage.



And even with base CON, my dex tank alistair still has 288 hp, without Lifegiver mind you (which it will be 338). Can still tank auto-hits pretty well, if I say so myself.

[Torias]

I think willpower is dramatically more important for warriors at least...



especially since there are health potions but no stamina potions :-)

[JHorwath]

Torias wrote...

I think willpower is dramatically more important for warriors at least...

especially since there are health potions but no stamina potions :-)

This.  A good mixture of both con and dex plus a good willpower for stamina.  The special moves help out a ton with tanking.  If an enemy is stunned then they can't damage you, now can they?

Putting a few points into magic might help as well.  Magic increases potency of healing items and spells, doesn't it?

Balance would be the most important thing.  If a character is the extreme at either end of the spectrum then they will excel in certain situations.  However, if you compliment your party to assist  one extreme or the other then both will be successful. 

Modifié par JHorwath, 22 novembre 2009 - 01:17 .

[konfeta]

This game has static number heals heals. Damage mitigation is superior to being a sponge.

Assuming two tanks that have about same numerical survivability, one with mitigation/dodge/unicorns, other with HP, the one with mitigation will get more out of a heal than the other. Although a healthy mix of both will probably be the most practical.

Modifié par konfeta, 22 novembre 2009 - 01:15 .

[Sornin]

I have never found constitution to be particularly useful, since it is a statistic that saves you rather than helps you.



Let me explain the difference: if you were to never be hit, constitution would be useless. Therefore, having a high constitution only saves you from sloppy play, rather than aids you all the time. Statistics like magic or strength help you all the time since they always make fights end faster by allowing you to do more damage. Willpower and dexterity are also good, and cunning is build-dependent.



Basically, get enough constitution to survive and no more. My main tank, Alistair, presently has 13 constitution and my party can defeat dragons without any deaths. It is all about tactics and not needing to absorb damage rather than just adding a larger pool of health.

[Cadarin]

At level 17 my tank character has 25 base Con and Dex, and I've been pumping the rest into Str. With shield wall up he's very durable, and I don't even have a real healer in my group. I'm playing on hard, so I imagine I'd have to invest more points in the defensive attributes to last on nightmare, but as it is I don't really think Con is that important.

[Rhys Cordelle]

This thread has been a great read. Thanks for the info

[MarloMarlo]

Force Field on a tank that has used Taunt makes extra hit points from constitution (even more) superfluous. You're better off spending the points on willpower for more Taunt uses per encounter if you'd rather not pump it into strength and dexterity after meeting the armor and ability prerequisites.

Constitution isn't useless, but there's no reason to get it on anyone except maybe Shale, since his gear has minimum constitution requirements on it.

Tyrax Lightning wrote...

2H Warrior wants Str & Con above all, no more than tertiary Dex. DW wants Str & Dex, & Shield wants all the Con they can get cause they're the damage sponge.

Why would you spend points in constitution as a damage warrior when those points could instead go to strength. You're again better off spending the points on willpower in order to be able to keep more sustained abilities up while still having enough stamina for on-demand crit abilities for shatter combos. Dexterity would also be a better attribute to spend it on for the increased chance to hit. Cunning is better again for the armor penetration.

Modifié par MarloMarlo, 22 novembre 2009 - 12:37 .

[JHorwath]

MarloMarlo wrote...

Force Field on a tank that has used Taunt makes extra hit points from constitution (even more) superfluous. You're better off spending the points on willpower for more Taunt uses per encounter if you'd rather not pump it into strength and dexterity after meeting the armor and ability prerequisites.

Constitution isn't useless, but there's no reason to get it on anyone except maybe Shale, since his gear has minimum constitution requirements on it.

Tyrax Lightning wrote...

2H Warrior wants Str & Con above all, no more than tertiary Dex. DW wants Str & Dex, & Shield wants all the Con they can get cause they're the damage sponge.

Why would you spend points in constitution as a damage warrior when those points could instead go to strength. You're again better off spending the points on willpower in order to be able to keep more sustained abilities up while still having enough stamina for on-demand crit abilities for shatter combos. Dexterity would also be a better attribute to spend it on for the increased chance to hit. Cunning is better again for the armor penetration.

Valamyr wrote...

Yep. Blood Mage stat.

Sure, if you want a blood mage that does less damage and gets less out of lyrium pots because instead of putting points into magic, you put them into constitution.

I actually like willpower on the two hander.  That way you can pull off more moves and buffs.

Modifié par JHorwath, 22 novembre 2009 - 01:53 .

[-XM-]

Str and Dex. Con is rather useless for a tank unless you plan to play only on lower difficulties. The problem with trying to absorb damage is that while enemy damage goes up, heals don't. There's only so much armor can do for you. So avoidance tanking is better than hp tanking. You only need enough con to be able to take a hit or two before the heal kicks in. The disadvantage of dex is that it seems (not sure) you lose the defense when you are CCed. You should be ok for physical resist on a tank anyway, but mental resist might become an issue.



Of course, this assume you aren't cheesing it with Taunt + Force Field. In which case you only really need enough willpower to taunt between Force Fields.

[Jordi B]

Interesting topic. It seems like most people prefer DEX to CON (or rather defense vs. health). I'm not very far along in the game yet, so I'm just wondering: are there any enemies that will basically hit you no matter what? And if yes, are there many? I can imagine that if such enemies exist, you would be better of with more health. Also, do you really lose your defense rating if you are CCed? That would also speak somewhat in favor of CON.

[-XM-]

Jordi B wrote...

Interesting topic. It seems like most people prefer DEX to CON (or rather defense vs. health). I'm not very far along in the game yet, so I'm just wondering: are there any enemies that will basically hit you no matter what? And if yes, are there many? I can imagine that if such enemies exist, you would be better of with more health. Also, do you really lose your defense rating if you are CCed? That would also speak somewhat in favor of CON.

I am not sure on the defense when stunned/paralysed thing. I just notice, as a rogue, being hit virtually only when I get stunned. With evasion + spellward (amulet) I have 30% evasion and with high dex, a retarded hit rate and defense (150 before buffs, at end of game), so it's noticeable when I actually get hit. It might have to do with the bonus from dueling not applying at those times? Not sure. So take my comment with a grain of salt.

[-Solrek-]

Yeah I tried CON, but DEX is better. If you go CON you will end up sucking down a lot more potions or using up a lot of mana on heals.



Needs to be rebalanced.

[Hatem]

I prefer larger health pool to avoidance for both combat and RP
purposes. While I did not play on hard or nightmare difficulties, I've
completed the game on normal and I have to admit it was quite easy. I
could take a lot of damage and still survive even without a healer.
Plus high dexterity will only protect you from melee enemies but not
casters who happen to be much more powerful in this particular game and
thus a major pain in the ***. My party has around 15 constitution and
they get 2-shotted if one of the mobs casts an aoe spell before I get
the chance to stun it or put a glyph of neutralization on top of it, so
I cannot understand how some people tank with such low constitution. 

In
addition, health makes it much easier for me to survive situations
where I was getting chewed on by the dogs or dragon
(the dog situation occured quite often), or was gripped by an ogre.
Sure, you can stun the ogre before it kills you, but it makes me feel
better about my character when I'm sure that I can go grab a cup of
cofee and when I come back, my warrior will still be standing without
anyone helping him to get out of that grip. Same goes with Crushing prison, insect swarm and whatever other spells mages have.

I'm not saying, however, that dexterity is useless. I just don't think that investing all attribute points into dexterity while completely ignoring constitution is such a good idea. At the end of the game I had 120 defense and 615 hp and was very satisfied with the results.