69 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrax Lightning]

JHorwath wrote...

MarloMarlo wrote...

Force Field on a tank that has used Taunt makes extra hit points from constitution (even more) superfluous. You're better off spending the points on willpower for more Taunt uses per encounter if you'd rather not pump it into strength and dexterity after meeting the armor and ability prerequisites.

Constitution isn't useless, but there's no reason to get it on anyone except maybe Shale, since his gear has minimum constitution requirements on it.

Tyrax Lightning wrote...

2H Warrior wants Str & Con above all, no more than tertiary Dex. DW wants Str & Dex, & Shield wants all the Con they can get cause they're the damage sponge.

Why would you spend points in constitution as a damage warrior when those points could instead go to strength. You're again better off spending the points on willpower in order to be able to keep more sustained abilities up while still having enough stamina for on-demand crit abilities for shatter combos. Dexterity would also be a better attribute to spend it on for the increased chance to hit. Cunning is better again for the armor penetration.

Valamyr wrote...

Yep. Blood Mage stat.

Sure, if you want a blood mage that does less damage and gets less out of lyrium pots because instead of putting points into magic, you put them into constitution.

I actually like willpower on the two hander.  That way you can pull off more moves and buffs.

When I gave my advice about 2H, I shoulda elaborated. I figure on high Str & med Con. Str is damage & accuracy for 2H while Dex is accuracy & evade. I never knew before that dex was also Defense, that sounds borked. Defense should be in Con's jurisdiction. (Con is for health & fortitude, & Dex is for agility & speed. Defense is a fortitude attribute, thus shoulda been in Con.)

2H means wasting everything in sight & taking some hits to stay standing while you're at it. DW is damage & agility with some dodging, & Shield is staying power first & foremost, though they'll want some dex for Shield skill requirements. Now that I know that Defense is in Dex's jurisdiction, i'm now confused on how much priority to give Dex & Con for Shield.

Cunning is Armor Penetration, but it'll be awfully hard for a warrior to afford, it's mostly for rogues. Willpower is Stamina. (I think Stamina too is a fortitude attribute, thus shoulda been in Con. Mana can stay in Willpower, Willpower Mana makes sense.) I'm undecided on how much or little Willpower to go, so I didn't feel qualified to speak on Willpower, so I didn't. One caution though, i've heard intel on some 2H moves failing to justify their stamina use & actually costing the 2H Warrior damage, though I can't vouch for this intel.

Con is called a Blood Mage stat because Blood Mages have an ability that makes their spells cost Health instead of Mana. Therefore, for a Blood Mage, Con would take Willpower's place as the magic's 'fuel' for the Mage.

Edit: It's so embarrasing how much trouble I go through to proofread only to still miss errors to correct & still have to Edit.

Modifié par Tyrax Lightning, 22 novembre 2009 - 03:32 .

[Faerell Gustani]

Gr4ntus wrote...

I prefer larger health pool to avoidance for both combat and RP
purposes. While I did not play on hard or nightmare difficulties, I've
completed the game on normal and I have to admit it was quite easy. I
could take a lot of damage and still survive even without a healer.
Plus high dexterity will only protect you from melee enemies but not
casters who happen to be much more powerful in this particular game and
thus a major pain in the ***. My party has around 15 constitution and
they get 2-shotted if one of the mobs casts an aoe spell before I get
the chance to stun it or put a glyph of neutralization on top of it, so
I cannot understand how some people tank with such low constitution. 

In
addition, health makes it much easier for me to survive situations
where I was getting chewed on by the dogs or dragon
(the dog situation occured quite often), or was gripped by an ogre.
Sure, you can stun the ogre before it kills you, but it makes me feel
better about my character when I'm sure that I can go grab a cup of
cofee and when I come back, my warrior will still be standing without
anyone helping him to get out of that grip. Same goes with Crushing prison, insect swarm and whatever other spells mages have.

I'm not saying, however, that dexterity is useless. I just don't think that investing all attribute points into dexterity while completely ignoring constitution is such a good idea. At the end of the game I had 120 defense and 615 hp and was very satisfied with the results.

You're very right.  I took an opposite approach with my main character.
I ensured that  I had enough HP and Armor to survive the grab attacks (provided I was at 75% or higher health), then dumped everything into dex for defense.

It seems like you ensured that you had enough defense to not get auto-hit by everything then dumped into Con for HP.  This is the approach I took with Alistair, though due to him wearing the Blood Dragon Plate armor, he takes very little damage and he's more on the defense side of things.

[Elanareon]

I dont think you will survive grab attacks with base con. So having enough con is good. Besides tanking is about staying alive so a bit of both. Saying dex is better is stupid coz of grab attacks but saying con is better is also stupid coz you can't take all of those hits as well healer wnt be enough.

[astrallite]

Then again, you'll be barely standing when you get out of a grab attack anyway, and you'll be dead from regular hits before you finish drinking the poultice.

[Loetek]

High Dex wont help you avoid death by mage... high con will.

[Zenthar Aseth]

Crushing Prisons/Grab attacks will screw you over if you have a low HP. And saying Forcefielding a tank makes CON useless is like saying using god mode makes CON useless.. d'aah. If you cheat obviously the game mechanisms change

[MarloMarlo]

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

Crushing Prisons/Grab attacks will screw you over if you have a low HP. And saying Forcefielding a tank makes CON useless is like saying using god mode makes CON useless.. d'aah.

No, it's like saying that playing smart highlights just how much of a waste it is to dump points into con just to soak up more damage.

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

If you cheat obviously the game mechanisms change

Are we supposed to be impressed that you think using an ability intelligently is the same as cheating? Or was there some other reason you decided to say that.

Modifié par MarloMarlo, 22 novembre 2009 - 12:21 .

[spscarter]

Well, I just respecced my Shale from mostly con and str with almost no dex, to a build with dex as the highest stat, followed by str and con which are both equal.

I have to say he definitely doesn't seem to be as much of a strain on Wynne's mana anymore.

[Mark5477]

Con is more flexible than Dex overall because it does not discriminate what type of damage is taken. Dex gives you a leg up against most physical attacks but not so much against skill/special attacks. You will find yourself considering what situation is more critical? Tanking crowds of cannon fodder or tanking special enemies/bosses that use magic and special attacks. Since cannon fodder is trivial, and since I choose not to abuse FF, I pick con for tanking. Is it harder to heal a con tank? Most of the time yea, but high hps have saved me many a times against ogres, dragons, wolves, spiders, mages, and bosses all of which grab, stun, paralyze, stampede, disable, and burn my tank.



If you are using FF a lot then you dont need a tank at all. Mage #1 fireball. Mage #2 FF mage #1. Mage #2 Fireball. Mage #3 FF mage #2. etc etc. I dont think the game was meant to be played this way but it certainly is one way of playing.

[DragoonKain3]

I'm sorry, but you don't run 120 defense and still have 600 hp. Even my character pumped/equipped for defense only has 130 or so defense. before you factor in talents/spells. Post attributes, build and equips, or it didn't happen.



And no, being stunned or otherwise disabled does NOT hurt your defense. I've seen nothing in the code that says otherwise, nor do my experiences say otherwise, since I still miss quite a few times against frozen enemies (critical shot missing really gets on my nerves). Even when I permafreeze Alistair with CoC against a Revenant, his evasion rate against it still remains unchanged (no more than 3 successful hits against 55 attempts)



Another thing, enemy mages are easily taken care of, from a simple anti-magic ward on your tank, to one-shotting them with spell clash (even reds), or neutralizing them with a glyph. And with anti-magic ward, your tank STILL can dodge enemy hits like crazy, while being completely immune to spellfire.



The only thing you should be worried about are grabs, but thats something even CON tanks are afraid of. I mean, if grabs still take out 75%+ of your hp in lower difficulties with CON builds, in nightmare they will almost definitely kill your tank regardless, especially when it comes to dragons.

[Zenthar Aseth]

MarloMarlo wrote...

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

Crushing Prisons/Grab attacks will screw you over if you have a low HP. And saying Forcefielding a tank makes CON useless is like saying using god mode makes CON useless.. d'aah.

No, it's like saying that playing smart highlights just how much of a waste it is to dump points into con just to soak up more damage.

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

If you cheat obviously the game mechanisms change

Are we supposed to be impressed that you think using an ability intelligently is the same as cheating? Or was there some other reason you decided to say that.

No, it's not playing smart when you exploit the bugs. Who told you to be impressed? I am stating the truth. If you do not wish to use bugs, then constitution is essential. If, however, you wish to exploit the AI and use Forcefield on your tank, no, it's not needed. You might as well play through the game with god mode, then, though.

[morrowindorion]

One thing to think about when grabbed is friendly fire. I know I've cone of cold alistar to get him out of the dragon's mouth. You might be able to force field your party members too when grabbed. I guess I'm just saying there are ways out of it.

[Rythuria]

I generally save a tactic for Enemy: Status -> Grabbing then Stonefist to break out the unlucky person getting gripped to death. Any stun/knockdown should do the trick though.



I've seen it work on up to ogres, but can't say I remember if it works for bosses

[feroxthegreywarden]

herecomesthethunder69 wrote...

I find pumping into Dexterity to be much more effective.

I was not a fan of allistar because even with all this heavy armor and crap he just died too quick.. then I noticed my strength and dex were over 30.. and his constitution was only frickin like 13....


I used the raven respec potion to fix that(I used auto level up for a long time before realizing how gimping it is) and now he survives a hell of a lot better..


so long story short.. yes con is important for survivability.

[morrowindorion]

Glad I'm not the only one blasting my own guys XD

[DragoonKain3]

It's easy enough to aim CoC to hit the grabbing enemy and NOT your ally. Most especially if they're as big as dragons...



Personally, I just have wynne set up as Enemy status: grabbing -> petrify, and it works barring enemy spell resists. And in those rare cases, I still have CoC, FF, and revive to fall back on. And considering the tank won't be taking damage otherwise, these spells will always be up when I need them.

[MarloMarlo]

Zenthar Aseth wrote...
No, it's not playing smart when you exploit the bugs. Who told you to be impressed? I am stating the truth. If you do not wish to use bugs, then constitution is essential. If, however, you wish to exploit the AI and use Forcefield on your tank, no, it's not needed. You might as well play through the game with god mode, then, though.

This is Force Field's description:
"The caster erects a telekinetic barrier around a target, who becomes completely immune to damage for the duration of the spell but cannot move. Friendly fire possible."

But let's pretend that I asked you why casting Force Field on a tank is exploiting a bug, and that I'm waiting for an answer that isn't just an unsupported assumption.

[anarex]

So by your understanding, since item use stealth allows you to toss grenades at mobs without ever being attacked, its not exploiting to enter a room with stealth and clear all the mobs without ever breaking stealth?

Or, it must not be exploiting to attack the dragons at range from a position the mob cant path to due to poorly written code?

How about summoning two ranger pets by starting the second cast before the first one finishes?

Stacking 4 different poisons on a weapon?

Making and selling potent lyrium potions to create infinite gold?

There are probably quite a few more examples but you get the point I hope.

Just because the game allows you to do something doesn't mean its not an exploit. An exploit is something the game allows you to do, that was not intended by the designer, which gives the player an unfair advantage.

Not all exploits are obvious but as a rule of thumb, any situation where you can employ a strategy that results in predictably taking no damage and clearing all mobs, including bosses, is an exploit. When you taunt, then force field the tank, the mobs stay on an invulnerable target no matter what you do to them. This includes dragons and bosses. That is an exploit.

The concept is more common in a MMORPG where in game staff will actually punish players who find and abuse exploits. It may be new for people used to single player games as there are rarely game breaking exploits in single player games. More than any previous Bioware game, Dragon Age tries to mimic the game play of an MMORPG. This is probably because they are considering a Dragon Age MMORPG.  Apparently that meant bringing along exploits.

Dragon Age is the buggiest game Bioware has ever put out. Its great and I love playing it but, I do feel like we are beta testing a future game for them. It is full of exploits and game breaking quest bugs that should have been detected before the game was released. If you want to use them, thats fine. Just don't have any illusions about what you are doing.

Modifié par anarex, 11 décembre 2009 - 05:23 .

[Rainen89]

Okay, constitution is the most pointless stat, ever. It will add 5 points of health for every point you put in, where as for a tank if you just put points in dex after you have enough strength to wear massive armor, you'll have much, much more survivability. If you really want to give him/her lifegiver but con is not viable.

[Tyrax Lightning]

I've played MMORPGs before, & i've also heard of people who found exploits & reported them, & they were rewarded.



If they make a DA:O MMORPG, then I won't be able to join that party. I've given up on MMORPGs due partly to the fact that I can't dedicate the time needed on them to succeed, & partly due to the fact that I can't keep my puder state of the art.

[thewayofblackbelt]

If the dragons grab or ogres. I just forcefield them to get them out of their grip. Now I usually set my cons at 15 and then focus on the rest.

[Siven80]

Con would be a much better stat if they split the defense gain from Dex with Con like they have for the attack stat (str+dex).



So 0.5 Defense from dex and con. Would be better imo.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

going STR/CON with Shale, he is just pure mean as a tank, but hey he is a Golem.. so what can you say haha ;D

[Original182]

In the duel against Loghain, my first character was a tank that only had enough dex to learn talents. I put the rest into constitution. I could beat Loghain but had to use a reasonable amount of health pots.

In my 2nd game, I made Alistair duel Loghain. For his stats, I gave him 42 strength to wear the heaviest armor, and put everything in dex. The result was Alistair used less health pots that my tank in the first game against Loghain.

Dex is better than constitution against mobs that hit hard, like Loghain and possibly Cauthrien.

[Kimberly Shaw]

What about attacks that don't rely on armor or defense (eg Magical)? Having Con high helps you survive being grabbed by a dragon or crushing prison'd or the like.



(+ Phys resistance and magical resistance and mental resistance gear also important I guess)