158 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

Carriers are dreadnought-sized vessels which carry a large number of fighters. They are usually kept at a distance from any engagement because they are not maneuverable enough to survive heavy bombardment. Alliance carriers are named after great leaders, artists, and intellectuals from human history.

Commander Shepard describes fighter carriers as an example of humanity demonstrating its ability to "think outside the box", which is evidenced by the fact that the Systems Alliance was the first to field these vessels.

Simple question.

Anyone else curious to see the SA field these unique ships in space combat scenes for ME3? 

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 août 2011 - 02:15 .

[Savber100]

*thinks of Battlestar Galactica*

Heck yeah!

[Sgt Stryker]

*Raises hand*

I for one, would love to see these babies in action. As long as they're not depicted getting into knife fight range engagements, that is. If the enemy can see your carriers, then you know your admiral is doing something wrong.

[Seboist]

Carriers would be nice to see.

[marshalleck]

Savber100 wrote...

*thinks of Battlestar Galactica*

Heck yeah!

Battlestars are pretty intensely bad-ass, but they're definitely more scrappy than Systems Alliance carriers.

I would really like to see these ships in action though, since they're considered to be a rather novel approach to naval combat in the Mass Effect milieu.

[Agamo45]

They'll probably be destroyed in the initial attack.

[Rahmiel]

Screw carriers! (although yes..) I just want more space combat! Enough frigate vs. cruiser or whatever else was in ME2. I want something big and epic, like at the end of ME1!

There can be carriers true enough, but why stop there? Why not carriers, dreadnoughts, destroyers,.. all of them! In fact, I'd love to see them in some sort of formation and attacking as a group.

Sadly though, if there's anything like that, it'll happen at the start of the game and then .. well.. we know what will happen then.

So.. yeah, I'm for carriers, but only if we get more ships as well.. not just a carrier and the normandy.

[wizardryforever]

I'd like to see carriers launching waves of fighters as they jump into a system.  I'm also curious if any of the other races experimented with carriers after being exposed to them by humans.  The Geth for instance, or the Rachni would be the type to learn from others or past mistakes and unashamedly take their ideas.

Also, we haven't seen much in the way of fighters to date.  More fighters!

[Savber100]

marshalleck wrote...

Battlestars are pretty intensely bad-ass, but they're definitely more scrappy than Systems Alliance carriers.

I would really like to see these ships in action though, since they're considered to be a rather novel approach to naval combat in the Mass Effect milieu.

If carriers are going to involved in the final battle, I can imagine they'll be supporting the Normandy in some sort of a Death Star suicide run against Harbinger. 

Which makes me think...

What weapons do the big Reapers have against fighters? We've seen their big plasma leg guns tear frigates and cruisers in half but I can't see how that will be sufficient in destroying hundreds of little fighters, darting in and out while hitting the weak spots (assuming that Reapers have weak spots). 

[Balek-Vriege]

Carrier + Mini-Thanix Fighters - Reaper Direct Damage slow firing weapons = Dead Reapers imo

[marshalleck]

Savber100 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Battlestars are pretty intensely bad-ass, but they're definitely more scrappy than Systems Alliance carriers.

I would really like to see these ships in action though, since they're considered to be a rather novel approach to naval combat in the Mass Effect milieu.

If carriers are going to involved in the final battle, I can imagine they'll be supporting the Normandy in some sort of a Death Star suicide run against Harbinger. 

Which makes me think...

What weapons do the big Reapers have against fighters? We've seen their big plasma leg guns tear frigates and cruisers in half but I can't see how that will be sufficient in destroying hundreds of little fighters, darting in and out while hitting the weak spots (assuming that Reapers have weak spots). 

Re: bold, exactly. The Reapers all have huge weapons for taking out dreadnoughts and cruisers, but we've never seen anything like GARDIAN lasers for example. That doesn't mean they don't have them, and it would be prudent to assume they do have something, but what that could be I don't know. It should also be noted that Thanix cannons can be mounted on craft as small as fighters, which makes carriers dramatically much more valuable.

Only 11 months after the battle, the turians produced the Thanix, their own miniaturized version of Sovereign's gun. The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate.

Imagine a carrier launching a wave of 150 fighters, all equipped with the same Thanix cannons the Normandy has. And if that's not enough, they have disruptor torpedos which can take down kinetic barriers. As I said in the title...forget dreadnoughts.

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 août 2011 - 02:59 .

[SandTrout]

While I agree that carriers w/ thanix armed fighters will likely be more effective against Reapers than main-line vessels, they probably will not be a cure-all. Note that the Reapers do have smaller versions of the Thanix than the heavy-duty leg mounted ones. I am of course referring to the Reaper that takes out 2 Kodiak style shuttles in the trailer. This does not negate the practicality of fighter swarms b/c the Reapers apparently have limited numbers of these fast-recharge weapons, but the Reapers are not defenseless.

[marshalleck]

Ah that's right, I felt like I was forgetting something important. That would be the spider-reapers. So we know with certainty that they have smaller defensive weapons.

Still, as you said, swarming them using fighter wolf-pack tactics (as frigates do cruisers and dreadnoughts in conventional warfare) might yield some successes.

The Protheans may have even taken more than a few down themselves. Vigil stated clearly that Sovereign was not invincible, and it was right. To an extent.

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 août 2011 - 03:08 .

[Rahmiel]

I think having 150 fighters each with a thanix cannon on every carrier is a little ridiculous. You do bring up a good point of having the disruptor torpedoes though. I also think the Reapers may have something akin to GARDIAN lasers but perhaps they do not. I mean, what if they do not have to worry about torpedoes because of their shielding technology?

The only reason I think it's unrealistic to imagine all these fighters equipped with thanix cannons, is because it's likely very expensive to do so. I acknowledge it's possible, but where the resources/time to manufacture all these fighters comes from.. I don't know. I don't even know if the SA even has thanix technology. I wouldn't crap my pants though if it turns out that there are fighters that do have it. But to expect each fighter of having that technology.. well.. I'm going to stand on the side of the fence with the rest of the skeptics.

But I'm not doubting the tactical advantage you're putting forth. It'd be great if we had them. Much like carriers in ww2 making battleships obsolete.

[el master pr]

marshalleck wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Battlestars are pretty intensely bad-ass, but they're definitely more scrappy than Systems Alliance carriers.

I would really like to see these ships in action though, since they're considered to be a rather novel approach to naval combat in the Mass Effect milieu.

If carriers are going to involved in the final battle, I can imagine they'll be supporting the Normandy in some sort of a Death Star suicide run against Harbinger. 

Which makes me think...

What weapons do the big Reapers have against fighters? We've seen their big plasma leg guns tear frigates and cruisers in half but I can't see how that will be sufficient in destroying hundreds of little fighters, darting in and out while hitting the weak spots (assuming that Reapers have weak spots). 

Re: bold, exactly. The Reapers all have huge weapons for taking out dreadnoughts and cruisers, but we've never seen anything like GARDIAN lasers for example. That doesn't mean they don't have them, and it would be prudent to assume they do have something, but what that could be I don't know. It should also be noted that Thanix cannons can be mounted on craft as small as fighters, which makes carriers dramatically much more valuable.

Only 11 months after the battle, the turians produced the Thanix, their own miniaturized version of Sovereign's gun. The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate.

Imagine a carrier launching a wave of 150 fighters, all equipped with the same Thanix cannons the Normandy has. And if that's not enough, they have disruptor torpedos which can take down kinetic barriers. As I said in the title...forget dreadnoughts.

A testament to this is the Normandy SR2 herself(yes, her). I'm guessing the Normandy SR2 could very well be the only frigate to go mano-a-mano against a cruiser, and not just any cruiser but a Collector Cruiser, and come out unscathed(the damage the Normandy got was from the Oculii[?] that attacked and breached the Cargo Hold). Gents, I've always thought about something: what if during the two years Shepard was dead and the almost-a-year that he fought the Collectors the SA has been busy outfitting the fleets, or at least Hacket's Fifth Fleet, with Thanix Cannons? What about upgraded Multicore Shielding? Silaris Armor anyone? We could have a Reaper-Terminator Fleet! I think I'm just expecting too much, right?

Yeah, more fleet goodness in general.

[marshalleck]

Memmahkth wrote...

I think having 150 fighters each with a thanix cannon on every carrier is a little ridiculous. You do bring up a good point of having the disruptor torpedoes though. I also think the Reapers may have something akin to GARDIAN lasers but perhaps they do not. I mean, what if they do not have to worry about torpedoes because of their shielding technology?

The only reason I think it's unrealistic to imagine all these fighters equipped with thanix cannons, is because it's likely very expensive to do so. I acknowledge it's possible, but where the resources/time to manufacture all these fighters comes from.. I don't know. I don't even know if the SA even has thanix technology. I wouldn't crap my pants though if it turns out that there are fighters that do have it. But to expect each fighter of having that technology.. well.. I'm going to stand on the side of the fence with the rest of the skeptics.

But I'm not doubting the tactical advantage you're putting forth. It'd be great if we had them. Much like carriers in ww2 making battleships obsolete.

Indeed, expensive. However the cost may be offset in that you're only attaching them to single-occupant fighters, which are nowhere near the cost of even a single frigate. The question of the Systems Alliance having access to the technology is also valid. As is the time frame for retrofitting.

However, the Systems Alliance does have the Normandy, and they did study her. It would be amazing if your decision to upgrade the Normandy in ME2 resulted in those upgrades being passed onto the Systems Alliance in ME3.

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 août 2011 - 03:13 .

[SandTrout]

Well, if TIM and Shepard have any sense at all, they would transmit the schematics that Garrus provided to some discreet Cerberus operatives within the Alliance.

Manufacturing/Retrofitting large numbers of fighters would take time and resources, but less time than constructing a fleet of dreadnaughts, I think. Also, if we can shift to a wartime production economy, then with the industrial output of several interstellar nations behind us, I think that we can probably start pumping out massive numbers of Thanix-based fighters.

[LeviathanZero]

Ah, it's always the way. Want to take out a big ship? Give it a dose of TRD

[SandTrout]

Gents, I've always thought about something: what if during the two years Shepard was dead and the almost-a-year that he fought the Collectors the SA has been busy outfitting the fleets, or at least Hacket's Fifth Fleet, with Thanix Cannons?

Even Cerberus did not have access to the Thanix schematics until Garrus leaked them. We only have the time since the start of ME2 to even possibly start human production of a Thanix.

[el master pr]

Memmahkth wrote...

I think having 150 fighters each with a thanix cannon on every carrier is a little ridiculous. You do bring up a good point of having the disruptor torpedoes though. I also think the Reapers may have something akin to GARDIAN lasers but perhaps they do not. I mean, what if they do not have to worry about torpedoes because of their shielding technology?

The only reason I think it's unrealistic to imagine all these fighters equipped with thanix cannons, is because it's likely very expensive to do so. I acknowledge it's possible, but where the resources/time to manufacture all these fighters comes from.. I don't know. I don't even know if the SA even has thanix technology. I wouldn't crap my pants though if it turns out that there are fighters that do have it. But to expect each fighter of having that technology.. well.. I'm going to stand on the side of the fence with the rest of the skeptics.

But I'm not doubting the tactical advantage you're putting forth. It'd be great if we had them. Much like carriers in ww2 making battleships obsolete.

My hope would be that as you put races into your Galactic Fleet, they'll cooperate between them and share resources. I, for one, would want the Migrant Fleet to have Thanix Cannons. At least 10,000 Thanix Cannons(assuming that could be done) could certainly do a lot of damage. We'll see. BW said that we'd find a way to defeat them in ME3, so I don't expect to find a way to beat them with what we've seen on ME or ME2.

[el master pr]

SandTrout wrote...

Gents, I've always thought about something: what if during the two years Shepard was dead and the almost-a-year that he fought the Collectors the SA has been busy outfitting the fleets, or at least Hacket's Fifth Fleet, with Thanix Cannons?

Even Cerberus did not have access to the Thanix schematics until Garrus leaked them. We only have the time since the start of ME2 to even possibly start human production of a Thanix.

You're absolutely right.

*spoiler warning, maybe for some of you*



The Normandy was taken by the Alliance, stripped apart, rebuilt and retrofitted, and opening new areas between Arrival and the beginning of ME3. Who says they do not have the schematics of the TC? 

[marshalleck]

SandTrout wrote...

Gents, I've always thought about something: what if during the two years Shepard was dead and the almost-a-year that he fought the Collectors the SA has been busy outfitting the fleets, or at least Hacket's Fifth Fleet, with Thanix Cannons?

Even Cerberus did not have access to the Thanix schematics until Garrus leaked them. We only have the time since the start of ME2 to even possibly start human production of a Thanix.

Yep, it's a very small window for retrofitting existing craft...and assuming those craft have adequate systems to power a Thanix. Upon upgrading the Normandy's systems, Ken and Gabby remark at the new power requirements. They aren't exactly a problem for the Normandy, but they did have to spend some time adapting the ship.

[Sisterofshane]

SandTrout wrote...

Well, if TIM and Shepard have any sense at all, they would transmit the schematics that Garrus provided to some discreet Cerberus operatives within the Alliance.

Manufacturing/Retrofitting large numbers of fighters would take time and resources, but less time than constructing a fleet of dreadnaughts, I think. Also, if we can shift to a wartime production economy, then with the industrial output of several interstellar nations behind us, I think that we can probably start pumping out massive numbers of Thanix-based fighters.

Also, if you take the neutral/renegade option at the end of ME, ME2 hints through an intergalactic news story at least the Turians may be mounting some kind of amrs race.  With who?  I have no idea, but I'm assuming with the Alliance. 

I think it would be reasonable to assume that all Races are "updating" what they currently have just based on what they dealt with at the BotC.  After all, even if they don't believe in the Reapers, they at least won't let another race out-gun them.

[Seboist]

Garrus is a good Cerberus blood brother for giving them the Thanix schematics.

[marshalleck]

Seboist wrote...

Garrus is a good Cerberus blood brother for giving them the Thanix schematics.

The Systems Alliance should equip a fleet of vorcha with thanix. They'd be unstoppable.