258 réponses à ce sujet

[Arthur Cousland]

I was surprised that the Loghain pieces are for rogues. Wasn't Loghain a warrior?

Bioware not testing their products before release? This is news? It's actually a rare occurence for something from Bioware to not need a patch at some point.

[Leonia]

Because codex entries have always been factual in the past.

At least they portrayed Loghain within his proper "class" this time.

Modifié par leonia42, 23 août 2011 - 07:15 .

[Monica21]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

I was surprised that the Loghain pieces are for rogues. Wasn't Loghain a warrior?

If Loghain had to have a "class" in The Stolen Throne it probably would have been a Rogue Archer. He had leather armor and trained the Night Elves in surprise attacks. Since I usually play a rogue, I'm glad to have something related to Loghain prior to him taking the Chevalier armor.

[Nerdage]

Monica21 wrote...

Mike Smith wrote...

I've got a number of concerns about the Loghain items. They seem to indicate Bioware if now going to consider the action at Ostagar a betrayal, and make Loghain a villain regardless of your choices in DAO. I was on the fence about getting this material before, but I'm now not going to buy this or any future item packs from BW because of this issue. I really hope this can be addressed.

This. I'm really disappointed that the codex entry turns him into a one-note villian while much of the discussion that spurred Loghain defense threads came from the writers themselves. We had a superbly written grey character in Origins and the codex entry makes no effort to incorporate that. It makes no effort to justify the actions Mary Kirby and David Gaider told us he had reasons for. It makes no effort to recognize that most of the Ferelden citizens still think quite highly of him and the nobility were the only ones with problems. It doesn't even recognize that his status as a hero only grows if he kills the AD and even if he becoms a Warden. 

Character motivations aside, I imagine the accepted history by most in the game world is that he betrayed Cailan for power and was subsequently thwarted by the legendary Hero of Ferelden, even if it's not the whole story.

I don't know what the description actually says though, I'm still debating whether or not to buy the pack..

Modifié par nerdage, 23 août 2011 - 07:35 .

[highcastle]

Codex entries reflect in-game opinions and are rarely neutral. They aren't always accurate either, nor are they supposed to be. They are supposed to reflect the views of the character who wrote them. Clearly the ones about Loghain were written by someone who was either a Cailan loyalist or flat out disliked him.

I'm more intrigued by the mentions of Fiona. It seems Alistair is not her son after all. I smell a possible new companion in an upcoming game (or at least a prominen NPC).

[VampireCommando]

The warrior armour and shield looks pritty damn awesome in my opinnion and so do the new duel daggers, i just wish we had a half decent one handed sword instead of a axe but hey, who knows, maybe i'll get one in the next pack.

[Aradace]

VampireCommando wrote...

The warrior armour and shield looks pritty damn awesome in my opinnion and so do the new duel daggers, i just wish we had a half decent one handed sword instead of a axe but hey, who knows, maybe i'll get one in the next pack.

Back before the Warrior neuter and I actually played S&B.  I always just used the Fade Shear lol.

[Aradace]

4pm EST and still no update to PSN

[Dave of Canada]

Doesn't the PSN update later in the week?

[Elhanan]

Ringo12 wrote...

I see the Biodrones are already defending this useless item pack.

Considering that some purchase DLC simply to support companies and games they enjoy, the only difference that seems to exist is a difference of opinion on said companies.

Now to enjoy playing Santa Hawke!

[Aradace]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Aradace wrote...

4pm EST and still no update to PSN

Yeah, PSN is always late for the party. Shame on them.

4:30EST and it's now up on PSN 

[Range Rover]

Aradace wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Aradace wrote...

4pm EST and still no update to PSN

Yeah, PSN is always late for the party. Shame on them.

4:30EST and it's now up on PSN 

 WooT!

[Uccio]

Why would I buy a item pack/s when I have played the game through too many times already?

[roundcrow]

highcastle wrote...

Codex entries reflect in-game opinions and are rarely neutral. They aren't always accurate either, nor are they supposed to be. They are supposed to reflect the views of the character who wrote them. Clearly the ones about Loghain were written by someone who was either a Cailan loyalist or flat out disliked him.

The description that it was a betrayal was also in the intro to DAII (the king died, betrayed by his most trusted general, or something of the sort).  I was kind of disappointed by that, because unlike codex entries that section seems to be portrayed as from an omniscient narrator. 

[Sylvianus]

roundcrow wrote...

highcastle wrote...

Codex entries reflect in-game opinions and are rarely neutral. They aren't always accurate either, nor are they supposed to be. They are supposed to reflect the views of the character who wrote them. Clearly the ones about Loghain were written by someone who was either a Cailan loyalist or flat out disliked him.

The description that it was a betrayal was also in the intro to DAII (the king died, betrayed by his most trusted general, or something of the sort).  I was kind of disappointed by that, because unlike codex entries that section seems to be portrayed as from an omniscient narrator. 

My sweet baby Jesus, I love Loghain too, but for the love of god, YES, he betrayed Cailan, and the army of Ostagar. He betrayed his oath, he also betrayed Ferelden selling free citizens to strangers slavers. I don't see the problem.

If it was necessary or not, if it was fair or not is another question. But why are you upset ? That's simply the truth.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 23 août 2011 - 09:15 .

[LadyVaJedi]

Better late than never.

[Aradace]

*glares at the 2h hammer*.....A 2h Hammer? Really? Come on guys I like to cut and slash things, not break and smash lol .

Seriously though, it's still a decent 2hander. I'll never use it personally (not a big fan of hammers) but it's still kinda cool. Everything else though, prettah noice!! With no set bonues I can piece meal a set together. Namely the Mage set. Geez, the robe with all the elemental dmg bonues, plus the mask from the other mage set. Not sure that they're as good as the Robes of unblemished cleanliness but still pretty nice all the same.

[Monica21]

Sylvianus wrote...
My sweet baby Jesus, I love Loghain too, but for the love of god, YES, he betrayed Cailan, and the army of Ostagar. He betrayed his oath, he also betrayed Ferelden selling free citizens to strangers slavers. I don't see the problem.

If it was necessary or not, if it was fair or not is another question. But why are you upset ? That's simply the truth.

And I strongly disagree for reasons that are too involved to get into in this thread.

As for the codex entry itself, it's not written by a person, it's just unauthored and therefore it's Bioware's opinion on the character. He was a very interesting character in Origins and in that game the players were allowed to make their own decision about him. In this game however, we're beaten over the head with "betrayal." They've taken a nuanced character and instead of allowing that nuance to carry over they've pushed him into the flat, one-note villian mode that the other two are in.

[KennethAFTopp]

Where are these new items supposed to be ?!

[Sylvianus]

Monica21 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
My sweet baby Jesus, I love Loghain too, but for the love of god, YES, he betrayed Cailan, and the army of Ostagar. He betrayed his oath, he also betrayed Ferelden selling free citizens to strangers slavers. I don't see the problem.

If it was necessary or not, if it was fair or not is another question. But why are you upset ? That's simply the truth.

And I strongly disagree for reasons that are too involved to get into in this thread.

As for the codex entry itself, it's not written by a person, it's just unauthored and therefore it's Bioware's opinion on the character. He was a very interesting character in Origins and in that game the players were allowed to make their own decision about him. In this game however, we're beaten over the head with "betrayal." They've taken a nuanced character and instead of allowing that nuance to carry over they've pushed him into the flat, one-note villian mode that the other two are in.

Indeed. Loghain YOU do not consider him as a traitor. But  apparently ( dragon ag e wiki ) the people of Gwaren and Ferelden do not think the same thing as you. And this is normal.

When you betray your country justified or not, never forget that everyone will never have the same view on this kind of act. This kind of act, it's For Life. Love or hate. The king was the son of  Maric, their hero, Cailan their current  king, Loghain left him to the darkspawn. Thousands of people were counting on him, trusted him and he left them in the hands of darkspawn in terrible suffering. He abandoned the battle and turned away.

 Never  Loghain will have  unanimous support of a country after that. Never.

And sorry, but yes loghain betrayed his king, betrayed his country, betrayed the army, betrayed the fundamental laws of Ferelden.

I have no doubt that this is a patriot, but the facts are there. How can you deny all that ? In my opinion, his eyes were too stayed at the past, still convinced he was the only one who can save Ferelden, whatever the cost for the kingdom itself.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 23 août 2011 - 09:54 .

[Bullets McDeath]

Tarnation. Just finished DA2 again last night and won't be replaying it for a while. Oh well.

And I get not wanting Loghain to be "streamlined" into a a GI Joe villain, but he did betray Cailan. He said he would have Cailan's back and instead he left him to die on the field of battle without reinforcements. That's absolute textbook betrayal, justified or not. Yes, there are nuances to the character that codex entry does not accurately portray, but it is not factually incorrect or misleading. And it's just a few lines of text. If people want to learn about Loghain, they should be playing DA:O, not reading DA2 codices.

[Sylvianus]

Thank you all. Well, I know it's a game, but to say that all did Loghain wasn't betrayal is far from reality. What he did ( all his crimes ) was worse than some real traitors in history in real life.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 23 août 2011 - 10:03 .