58 réponses à ce sujet

[Sh2dak]

We've all heard about his supposed demise. Well, what if I told you he didn't have to die? Perhaps the general concensus of said subject is simply lacking one crucial detail: Choice.

During the full demo stream, Jesse Houston said the following on encounting the boy in the vent.

"So, this co[nversation]... Mass Effect really makes sure that every conversation option and every choice that you make has a major impact on the game."

He said that while preparing to choose one of two options on the conversation wheel:

   "Let me help you"
<
   "Get out of there!"

In all several previews of this instance, the second option has not been chosen.

Full Demo Stream - Skip to 16:11

Modifié par Sh2dak, 18 août 2011 - 05:23 .

[Recon Member]

So? The boy still dies.

[Vyse_Fina]

His point is probably that selecting "Get out of there might get him to get out and follow you instead, but I doubt that happens. He's there for a reason and the reason requires him to die.

[Kasai666]

He dies either way.

[Sh2dak]

Thekill_3 wrote...

So? The boy still dies.

It seems likely that the outcome will differ depending on your approach in getting him out of the vent, otherwise the point of choice is defeated.

If somebody who had a preview of Mass Effect 2 had informed the community that say, Tali died in the final battle, we'd be none the wiser. That is, until finally playing ourselves and realising the countless factors that decide your team's fate. Mass Effect is all about choice (or in some cases the illusion of) and in that scene there is two options.
One of which we don't know the outcome.

Maybe he still dies.
Maybe he dies in a different way.
Maybe he disappears and is assumed dead.
Maybe he lives...

Modifié par Sh2dak, 18 août 2011 - 05:42 .

[marshalleck]

Sh2dak wrote...

Thekill_3 wrote...

So? The boy still dies.

It seems likely that the outcome will differ depending on your approach in getting him out of the vent, otherwise the point of choice is defeated.

It wouldn't be the first time two different dialogue choices led to the same outcome in Mass Effect. 

Just because someone in Bioware made a blanket statement at one point during development doesn't mean every single dialogue choice will spawn its own independent plot branch. 

[CheeseEnchilada]

You can't save everyone. The child is a prime example of that.

[Arppis]

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

You can't save everyone. The child is a prime example of that.

B-but... I'm PARAGON!

I should be able to!

[The_Illusive]

Arppis wrote...
B-but... I'm PARAGON!

I should be able to!

You should roll paragade, son. Then you don't have to ponder on things like that.

[Sh2dak]

marshalleck wrote...

It wouldn't be the first time two different dialogue choices led to the same outcome in Mass Effect.

"Mass Effect is all about choice (or in some cases the illusion of) and in that scene there is two options.
One of which we don't know the outcome."

Just because someone in Bioware made a blanket statement at one point during development doesn't mean every single dialogue choice will spawn its own independent plot branch.

Jesse Houston is actually the producer. Also, it's potentially an incidental branch of the main story arch, all of which end at some point. In this case, finding out whether he lives or dies and moving on from the emotional responsibility of 'neglecting' him in the vent. Not 'independent' at all, and I don't recall suggesting any otherwise.

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

You can't save everyone. The child is a prime example of that.

I think he's a stimulus for emotional investment, nothing more, nothing less.

Modifié par Sh2dak, 18 août 2011 - 06:14 .

[marshalleck]

Sh2dak wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It wouldn't be the first time two different dialogue choices led to the same outcome in Mass Effect.

"Mass Effect is all about choice (or in some cases the illusion of) and in that scene there is two options.

One of which we don't know the outcome."

Just
because someone in Bioware made a blanket statement at one point during
development doesn't mean every single dialogue choice will spawn its
own independent plot branch.

Jesse Houston is actually the producer.

So what? Devs talk up their products all the time. The difference between the two choices will be cosmetic at the very most; in all likelihood, the difference will be minor dialogue differences but the scene will play out the same. Calling it now. 

Top choice:
Shepard: come here, let me help you!

Bottom choice: 
Shepard: hey kid, get out of there!

*Anderson interrupts, Shepard looks away, looks back, kid is gone. Level plays out the same from there.*

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 août 2011 - 06:10 .

[Arppis]

The_Illusive wrote...

Arppis wrote...
B-but... I'm PARAGON!

I should be able to!

You should roll paragade, son. Then you don't have to ponder on things like that.

Hehe. Yeah, I pick some renegade options. Those that actualy make sense. So I guess I already am.

[Sundance31us]

The_Illusive wrote...
You should roll paragade, son. Then you don't have to ponder on things like that.

Amen to that.

[Notlikeyoucare]

marshalleck wrote...

Sh2dak wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It wouldn't be the first time two different dialogue choices led to the same outcome in Mass Effect.

"Mass Effect is all about choice (or in some cases the illusion of) and in that scene there is two options.

One of which we don't know the outcome."

Just
because someone in Bioware made a blanket statement at one point during
development doesn't mean every single dialogue choice will spawn its
own independent plot branch.

Jesse Houston is actually the producer.

So what? Devs talk up their products all the time. The difference between the two choices will be cosmetic at the very most; in all likelihood, the difference will be minor dialogue differences but the scene will play out the same. Calling it now. 

Top choice:
Shepard: come here, let me help you!

Bottom choice: 
Shepard: hey kid, get out of there!

*Anderson interrupts, Shepard looks away, looks back, kid is gone. Level plays out the same from there.*

Sounds a lot like ME 2. Our choices had no effect other than a few brief cameo's acknowledging your actions, which is one of the things I always hated about the series.

[Savber100]

Notlikeyoucare wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Sh2dak wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It wouldn't be the first time two different dialogue choices led to the same outcome in Mass Effect.

"Mass Effect is all about choice (or in some cases the illusion of) and in that scene there is two options.

One of which we don't know the outcome."

Just
because someone in Bioware made a blanket statement at one point during
development doesn't mean every single dialogue choice will spawn its
own independent plot branch.

Jesse Houston is actually the producer.

So what? Devs talk up their products all the time. The difference between the two choices will be cosmetic at the very most; in all likelihood, the difference will be minor dialogue differences but the scene will play out the same. Calling it now. 

Top choice:
Shepard: come here, let me help you!

Bottom choice: 
Shepard: hey kid, get out of there!

*Anderson interrupts, Shepard looks away, looks back, kid is gone. Level plays out the same from there.*

Sounds a lot like ME 2. Our choices had no effect other than a few brief cameo's acknowledging your actions, which is one of the things I always hated about the series.

The whole point of the scene was to show that YOU can't change anything. You're not the big, omnipresent protector of humanity now that the Reapers are here. 

I think that the child's inevitable fate just kinda pushes home on that. You ARE helpless at this moment against the Reapers. You can't stop the inevitable. 

That said, ME3 needs some freaking branching narratives. 

Modifié par Savber100, 18 août 2011 - 06:22 .

[Sundance31us]

Could you imagine...

Shepard coaxes the child out of the ducts, scoops him up into his/her arms only to have the child later die in his/her arms from a wound received while trying to evacuate.

Such a scene would make the final scene with mumHawk look armature…I could see Bioware doing it just to mess with our fragile minds.

Modifié par Sundance31us, 18 août 2011 - 06:25 .

[Savber100]

^^Sundance

Heck that will be awesome. The feelings of guilt will be pretty overwhelming. That level could be similar to the level in COD4 where you have to get your sniper friend out of harms' way while battling the Russians at the same time.

But I doubt that will happen.

[Sh2dak]

marshalleck wrote...

So what? Devs talk up their products all the time. The difference between the two choices will be cosmetic at the very most; in all likelihood, the difference will be minor dialogue differences but the scene will play out the same. Calling it now. 

Top choice:
Shepard: come here, let me help you!

Bottom choice: 
Shepard: hey kid, get out of there!

*Anderson interrupts, Shepard looks away, looks back, kid is gone. Level plays out the same from there.*

Call it all you like, but the fact remains that we don't know the outcome of both conversational options at this point. It doesn't matter how you look at it, or what you think you know, we simply don't.

Savber100 wrote...

The whole point of the scene was to show that YOU can't change anything.
You're not the big, omnipresent protector of humanity now that the
Reapers are here. 

I think that the child's inevitable fate just
kinda pushes home on that. You ARE helpless at this moment against the
Reapers. You can't stop the inevitable. 

That said, ME3 needs some freaking branching narratives. 

Really, that's the point of the scene? You must've enjoyed playing the whole game. Quite pointless though, knowing from the beginning that 'you can't change anything' right? How did it even end? I bet the Reapers won and everybody died because you couldn't change anything. Some emotionally engaging game of choice and consequences that was, huh. Silly Bioware.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Emotional investment? Seems Bioware isn't counting on people with shriveled black hearts like myself.

[Sundance31us]

ReconTeam wrote...
Emotional investment? Seems Bioware isn't counting on people with shriveled black hearts like myself.

They could include a renegade interrupt where Shepard throws the kid at one of the Reaper minions.

[DarkDragon777]

ReconTeam wrote...

Emotional investment? Seems Bioware isn't counting on people with shriveled black hearts like myself.

This

[marshalleck]

Sh2dak wrote...

Call it all you like, but the fact remains that we don't know the outcome of both conversational options at this point. It doesn't matter how you look at it, or what you think you know, we simply don't.

Of course. But you don't know anything about that option either. So it could play out exactly as I described. This is hardly an interesting or meaningful basis for creating a thread.

[Savber100]

Sh2dak wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

The whole point of the scene was to show that YOU can't change anything.
You're not the big, omnipresent protector of humanity now that the
Reapers are here. 

I think that the child's inevitable fate just
kinda pushes home on that. You ARE helpless at this moment against the
Reapers. You can't stop the inevitable. 

That said, ME3 needs some freaking branching narratives. 

Really, that's the point of the scene? You must've enjoyed playing the whole game. Quite pointless though, knowing from the beginning that 'you can't change anything' right? How did it even end? I bet the Reapers won and everybody died because you couldn't change anything. Some emotionally engaging game of choice and consequences that was, huh. Silly Bioware.

Troll harder.  <_<

The devs during the SDCC said that you're suppose to feel helpless against the Reapers. There's almost no hope left as the whole game is depending on your feeble attempts to find a solution. The consequences of your past choices are still valid as anything from the Council Remnants to the Rachni are critical for your victory. 

Honestly, have you even been listening to what Casey Hudson has said? Try to actually listen the next time Hudson talks about ME3. 

ME3 is the game where the beginning is suppose to make everything look downright hopless. The fate of the child emphasizes on how Shepard can't protect everyone. Shepard, the big Alliance hero and saviour of the Citadel, can do nothing now (in the beginning anyways).

[CaptainHydra]

I think this may be similar to what Legion said about the geth schism, that the route taken is just as important as the final outcome (only not talking about technology). The paragon and renegade routes are different and define your character but the outcome can be the same, because everything is not under Shepard's control.

[Chewin]

CaptainHydra wrote...

I think this may be similar to what Legion said about the geth schism, that the route taken is just as important as the final outcome (only not talking about technology). The paragon and renegade routes are different and define your character but the outcome can be the same, because everything is not under Shepard's control.

Eh?