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[Massadonious1]

Dr. Seuss.

[ThePwener]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Dr. Seuss.

lol

[SandTrout]

I am awful for negating your point that good fiction is also completely idiotic?

[Massadonious1]

ThePwener wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Dr. Seuss.

lol

Green Eggs? Totally implausible.

[SandTrout]

I always found Seuss's work very logical, even if the rules of the setting were set extremely far away from reality.

[ThePwener]

Im not saying that (good) fiction is idiotic. Im amused that you think that fiction can be "reasonable" and "logical" when the sole reason it is classified as fiction is because it is unlogical and unreasonable.

I never said anything was "idiotic" either. You are the one spraying the word all over the place. Don't put words in my mouth.

[ThePwener]

Massadonious1 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Dr. Seuss.

lol

Green Eggs? Totally implausible.

....and totally toxic.



By Trout's logic, this "thing" existing can be logical and resonable if the writing is good enough.

[SandTrout]

Im not saying that (good) fiction is idiotic. Im amused that you think that fiction can be "reasonable" and "logical" when the sole reason it is classified as fiction is because it is unlogical and unreasonable.

You do not know the definition of fiction, because the one you just gave is just flat-out wrong.

fic·tion
noun
1. the class of literature comprising works of imaginative narration, especially in prose form.
2. works of this class, as novels or short stories: detective fiction.
3. something feigned, invented, or imagined; a made-up story: We've all heard the fiction of her being in delicate health.
4. the act of feigning, inventing, or imagining.
5. an imaginary thing or event, postulated for the purposes of argument or explanation.

All that fiction means is that it is not real.

I never said anything was "idiotic" either. You are the one spraying the word all over the place. Don't put words in my mouth.

Making up something that is counter to logic and reason is idiotic to me.

[ThePwener]

Non-realistic Fiction
Non-realistic fiction is that in which the story's events could not happen in real life, because they are supernatural, or involve an alternate form of history of mankind other than that recorded, or need impossible technology. A good deal of fiction books are like this, e.g. Alice In Wonderland and Harry Potter.

Oh yeah....

1. aliens - totally logical and reasonable

2. Cthulus -  totally logical and reasonable

3. space magic power -  totally logical and reasonable

4. bringing people from the dead -  totally logical and reasonable

ect, ect, ect....

[Candidate 88766]

ThePwener wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

I really doubt that OP. Bw said that the key would appear half-way through the game and that it would change and shift depending on the way you progress and what you do, so it won't be the same thing for everyone.

I recall Hudson saying something like this. Do you happen to know the source for this comment? Was it on Twiiter? 

I... don't... remember.....

I read it months ago when the first tid-bits of ME3 came out. Ask Phaedon, he's a ME encyclopedia.

I remember reading this as well, almost certain it was the original GameInformer article. Interestingly, he said there'd be multiple paths to defeating the Reapers but some would be better than others and at least one may be a red herring. I hope they still go for that.

[ThePwener]

Yean, gameinformer. Nice memory.

[GamerJ]

about the guys talking about real/unreal if all games would be like real it would suck like hell, look to call of duty/battlefield do you guys really think after a bullet hit in real if u crawl in a corner you will gain ur health back and still can run around without pain or respawn in real life or crash 5 times in a chopper ect and everytime survive and just walk into battle again? there is almost no game that is 100% like real life, imagen how boring it would be.. so stop complaining about mass effect is boring fake its not realistic, maby its not realistic but its fun

[SandTrout]

Impossible technology has nothing to do with characters acting logically or not in the context of those technologies. Within the context of the story, that impossible technology exists. It should be used in a logical manner, though.

1. Aliens is logical, within its context. Alien predator comes on-board a ship responding to a distress call and eats the crew. Pretty logical to me.
2. HP Lovecraft is intentionally placing most of his villains outside of our comprehension in order to not need to have them follow logic we could recognize. I'm not a big fan of Lovecraft because of it.
3. I assume you mean biotics. Biotics fall under the category of impossible technology, and are not inherently logical or illogical. Within the context of the story, they exist regardless. Logic and reason come into play in determining how a person would use 'space magic power'
4. bringing the dead back to life is another impossible technology that is not logical or illogical.

Impossible technology does not prevent the story from being logical in its progression.

[SandTrout]

GamerJ wrote...

about the guys talking about real/unreal if all games would be like real it would suck like hell, look to call of duty/battlefield do you guys really think after a bullet hit in real if u crawl in a corner you will gain ur health back and still can run around without pain or respawn in real life or crash 5 times in a chopper ect and everytime survive and just walk into battle again? there is almost no game that is 100% like real life, imagen how boring it would be.. so stop complaining about mass effect is boring fake its not realistic, maby its not realistic but its fun

We're not actually discussing realism in terms of game mechanics, we're arguing logical actions on the part of characters. I agree that 100% realism in terms of game mechanics can blow pretty hard, but I do have standards for my storytelling, regardless of medium.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ThePwener wrote...

Non-realistic Fiction
Non-realistic fiction is that in which the story's events could not happen in real life, because they are supernatural, or involve an alternate form of history of mankind other than that recorded, or need impossible technology. A good deal of fiction books are like this, e.g. Alice In Wonderland and Harry Potter.

Oh yeah....

1. aliens - totally logical and reasonable

they are actually

2. Cthulus -  totally logical and reasonable

What Cthulus?

3. space magic power -  totally logical and reasonable

I give you that. At least it's somewhat well explained.

4. bringing people from the dead -  totally logical and reasonable

I give you that too.

ect, ect, ect....

However, the point is that just because one element is not 100% relistic, doesn't mean that everything should be or that it cannot be taken seriously.

Realism and believabiltiy are NOT binary things.

[Reptillius]

ThePwener wrote...

Reptillius wrote...

The is actually unprovable. there is much of the fight we don't see and there is certain things that had to happen to make the ending appropriate in Shepards story...   There are too many factors we don't actually know to make statements like this.  For all we know there was coincidental timing that about the same time that Shepard takes out the Saren Avatar the combined fleet forces manage to actually overload and disable Soveriegns shields.

There is just too much about that fight that either gets in the way of making any sound calls on a true outcome and to little information in certain respects to make accurate calls about the strength of certain units in the ME universe...

in Short... Plot armour is never a fair assessment of defensive capability or incapability.

Oh please....

You don't really believe all that do you? "Overload" it's shields? Shepard killed it, plain and simple. ME isn't the bible. If it's obvious, that's how it happened. Why complicate it? ME isn't a damn quantum algebra book.

Why shouldn't I believe that. It's a more likely scenario than the Saren shorting it out scenario.  And Shepard still kills it because in the ME Universe the Normandy and Shepard are entirely linked.  Either way you look at it Shepard still in effect takes the final blow and the game needed to have Shepard kill Sovereign in a suitably epic fashion. That means reguardless of the fact that the rest of the fleet might have been capable of doing it. It is Shepard/Normandy's shot to take and they take it.  It also has to be after the expected boss battle at the end of the game. Thus plot armour ensures that the logical outcome of the shields dropping and sovereign being hit with that fatal last attack takes place at the right time.  Thus we get Plot Armour.

[SalsaDMA]

RussianSpy27 wrote...

Anyone remembers how FreeSpace 2 ended? A portal star had to be destroyed to not allow super powerful aliens called Shedans enter Human and Vasudan space ( &  ) but doing so created massive damage and if my memory serves me right prevented intergalactic travel at some level. 

I hate to be a nitpick, but since I dearly love FS2 I have to correct some things here.

The aliens being fought in FS2 are called Shivans, not Shedans.

And the "Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance" 'solution' to being unable to stop the tide of Shivan ships was to sever/destroy the jump nodes connecting a system that was getting overrun so there wouldn't be any known means to get from that system to Terran-Vasudan space (Which could only be seen as a delaying effort at best, as the incursion from FS2 started out from an unmapped jumpnode in the first place).

Ofc, the Shivans had their own plans and seemed to be mostly ignoring the plan of the GTVA (aside from clearing out any GTVA forces in the system, that is) and instead gathered a huge fleet of what would be dreadnought-class ships around the star of the system the GTVA were about to cut off, and did some tech.thing causing the start to go supernova. Why the Shivans wanted that star to go supernova, nobody could figure out, and the game ended with the star going supernova while the player raced for the jumpnode to jump out before getting caught up by the blastwave, and the GTVA sealing off the system right after by destroying the jumpnode connections between that system and the 2 systems it connected to in GTVA space.

I know it was offtopic, but my FS beating heart just HAD to correct those things 
(And by gods would I love for that franchise to be picked up someone again )

[RussianSpy27]

SalsaDMA wrote...

I hate to be a nitpick, but since I dearly love FS2 I have to correct some things here.

The aliens being fought in FS2 are called Shivans, not Shedans.

And the "Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance" 'solution' to being unable to stop the tide of Shivan ships was to sever/destroy the jump nodes connecting a system that was getting overrun so there wouldn't be any known means to get from that system to Terran-Vasudan space (Which could only be seen as a delaying effort at best, as the incursion from FS2 started out from an unmapped jumpnode in the first place).

Ofc, the Shivans had their own plans and seemed to be mostly ignoring the plan of the GTVA (aside from clearing out any GTVA forces in the system, that is) and instead gathered a huge fleet of what would be dreadnought-class ships around the star of the system the GTVA were about to cut off, and did some tech.thing causing the start to go supernova. Why the Shivans wanted that star to go supernova, nobody could figure out, and the game ended with the star going supernova while the player raced for the jumpnode to jump out before getting caught up by the blastwave, and the GTVA sealing off the system right after by destroying the jumpnode connections between that system and the 2 systems it connected to in GTVA space.

I know it was offtopic, but my FS beating heart just HAD to correct those things 
(And by gods would I love for that franchise to be picked up someone again )

Thanks for the corrections. It's been years since I played that game, so I mixed a few things up. Agreed on the franchise point.