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Merrill Romance


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#76
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TheJediSaint wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

but we DO know what's on the other side. Something that's obviously safe enough for Morrigan to send an untrained 2 year old child and for her to go herself. Possibly with the Warden. She knows what's on the other side, and wouldn't go somewhere that's incredibly dangerous.


Three points I want to make in regards to that.

First, youre assuming that Merrill's mirror leads to the same place as Morrigan's does.

Second, Morrigan had access to knowledge (Flemeth's Grimore) Merrill didnt.

Thrid, it is explicitly said that Morrigan's mirror was never tainted or damaged, unlike the mirror that Merrill was working on.


1.) and why wouldn't it lead to the same place?

2.) Flemeth's Grimoire had nothing to do with the Eluvian. Morrigan had to take a book that was entirely about the Eluvians from a Dalish clan.

3.) Don't see how the taint makes a difference when the shard was cleansed, which more than likely means any negative attributes for where the Eluvians go is gone.

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

1.) and why wouldn't it lead to the same place?

There could be any number of reasons why it wouldn't. And Merrill doesn't even know it leads anywhere, she's just trying to get it work. Maybe Morrigan had to know specifically where to aim it, through use of that book, which Merrill didn't have access to.

2.) Flemeth's Grimoire had nothing to do with the Eluvian. Morrigan had to take a book that was entirely about the Eluvians from a Dalish clan.

You read her Grimoire, did you? :P

#78
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Filament wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

1.) and why wouldn't it lead to the same place?

There could be any number of reasons why it wouldn't. And Merrill doesn't even know it leads anywhere, she's just trying to get it work. Maybe Morrigan had to know specifically where to aim it, through use of that book, which Merrill didn't have access to.


2.) Flemeth's Grimoire had nothing to do with the Eluvian. Morrigan had to take a book that was entirely about the Eluvians from a Dalish clan.

You read her Grimoire, did you? :P


1.) Saying that they lead to two different places with nothing to back that up though doesn't mean anything though.

2.) No, but Flemeth's Grimoire detailed spells that Flemeth used, and was more about Flemeth than ancient elven thingies. If there was anything about an ancient elven thingy in there, Morrigan wouldn't have needed to take a book devoted to the Eluvians.

For all we know, Flemeth's Grimoire had more cooking recipes than actual spells. Image IPB

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

1.) Saying that they lead to two different places with nothing to back that up though doesn't mean anything though.

Saying it leads to the same place with nothing to back it up doesn't mean much either. The Eluvian is an unknown, and powerful. There is danger in tinkering with such things.

2.) No, but Flemeth's Grimoire detailed spells that Flemeth used, and was more about Flemeth than ancient elven thingies. If there was anything about an ancient elven thingy in there, Morrigan wouldn't have needed to take a book devoted to the Eluvians.

Just because she might mention it doesn't mean she would necessarily go into detail about how to use it.

#80
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Filament wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

1.) Saying that they lead to two different places with nothing to back that up though doesn't mean anything though.

Saying it leads to the same place with nothing to back it up doesn't mean much either. The Eluvian is an unknown, and powerful. There is danger in tinkering with such things.

2.) No, but Flemeth's Grimoire detailed spells that Flemeth used, and was more about Flemeth than ancient elven thingies. If there was anything about an ancient elven thingy in there, Morrigan wouldn't have needed to take a book devoted to the Eluvians.

Just because she might mention it doesn't mean she would necessarily go into detail about how to use it.



Danger exists in all forms. All knowledge is potentially dangerous. We seek out information from the unknown so we can better understand the unknown. Were we to not research anything because it might be dangerous, we wouldn't have gotten as far as we have now would we?

Merrill knows there are dangers associated with her researching. Why should Hawke repeat that to the person who understands the want for knowledge on an elven artifact, when he himself knows absolutely nothing about it?

And do we even know that Flemeth knows anything about the Eluvians? She may have respect among the Dalish, but does she know? Would she really put something that important in her Grimoire? Would Morrigan really use an Eluvian if she knew Flemeth also knew about them, especially when she said that Flemeth wasn't truly dead and would return?

Morrigan may be many things, but she is not an idiot. She's smart, and I highly doubt she would use an Eluvian if she knew Flemeth also knew about them.

#81
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Filament wrote...

Saying it leads to the same place with nothing to back it up doesn't mean much either. The Eluvian is an unknown, and powerful. There is danger in tinkering with such things.


Danger exists in all forms. All knowledge is potentially dangerous. We seek out information from the unknown so we can better understand the unknown. Were we to not research anything because it might be dangerous, we wouldn't have gotten as far as we have now would we?


Well, you admitted it's dangerous. But you're equivocating, not all danger is created equal. There's a difference between tinkering with a powerful artifact where your primary source of information about it is a demon, basically "what does this button do, I sure hope it doesn't point back to that black underground city that tainted it in the first place"... and cautiously researching an artifact perhaps the way Morrigan did.

#82
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Filament wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Filament wrote...

Saying it leads to the same place with nothing to back it up doesn't mean much either. The Eluvian is an unknown, and powerful. There is danger in tinkering with such things.


Danger exists in all forms. All knowledge is potentially dangerous. We seek out information from the unknown so we can better understand the unknown. Were we to not research anything because it might be dangerous, we wouldn't have gotten as far as we have now would we?


Well, you admitted it's dangerous. But you're equivocating, not all danger is created equal. There's a difference between tinkering with a powerful artifact where your primary source of information about it is a demon, basically "what does this button do, I sure hope it doesn't point back to that black underground city that tainted it in the first place"... and cautiously researching an artifact perhaps the way Morrigan did.


I was really just quoting Morrigan, as she said the same exact thing and it pertained to my point. But either way, it doesn't matter.  ehh maybe I did.

Merrill has only met with Audacity 3 times.

1. With Marethari, where she learned the demon was sundered from the Veil and Fade (much like Justice was) and was trapped in a statue for centuries and would continue to be trapped. Q.E.D, he isn't a threat unless a powerful magic spell freed him.

2.) When she learned blood magic from him.

3.) when Marethari decided to share a spiritual apartment with him and had to be slain


We know that Merrill used whatever lore she could find and extrapolated from it. She didn't rely on the demon for everything.

Merrill spent 7 years researching an Eluvian, while Morrigan spent 2 at most. Who's the one being cautious here? that Morrigan got it to work doesn't mean she didn't rush her research. Ancient and powerful Dragon ladies who are very dangerous tend to make you want to get the hell out of dodge as soon as possible.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 septembre 2011 - 07:41 .


#83
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Merrill has only met with Audacity 3 times.

1. With Marethari, where she learned the demon was sundered from the Veil and Fade (much like Justice was) and was trapped in a statue for centuries and would continue to be trapped. Q.E.D, he isn't a threat unless a powerful magic spell freed him.

I wouldn't say that's really a QED in a particularly rigorous sense. The demon is trapped in a statue on Sundermount where the ancient elves and Tevinters fought... his prison very well could have had an escape route as Marethari described. We don't know. One might wonder why he bothered to help Merrill at all if his help all amounted to giving her everything she wanted and getting nothing in return.

2.) When she learned blood magic from him.

Specifically so she could cleanse the shard...

3.) when Marethari decided to share a spiritual apartment with him and had to be slain


We know that Merrill used whatever lore she could find and extrapolated from it. She didn't rely on the demon for everything.

Merrill was in that situation in Act III in the first place because she needed to rely on the demon for more information. Maybe not everything... certainly a lot, though. Certainly for the key components in making the Eluvian work.

Merrill spent 7 years researching an Eluvian, while Morrigan spent 2 at most. Who's the one being cautious here? that Morrigan got it to work doesn't mean she didn't rush her research. Ancient and powerful Dragon ladies who are very dangerous tend to make you want to get the hell out of dodge as soon as possible.

I did say perhaps. If the tome was detailed in the proper use of the Eluvian, I would call that much better researching than what Merrill did. If it was full of vague metaphors or such, maybe not.

#84
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I wouldn't say that's really a QED in a particularly rigorous sense. The demon is trapped in a statue on Sundermount where the ancient elves and Tevinters fought... his prison very well could have had an escape route as Marethari described. We don't know. One might wonder why he bothered to help Merrill at all if his help all amounted to giving her everything she wanted and getting nothing in return.


I find it hard to believe anything an abomination and a hypocrite says. Marethari says not to trust a demon yet she trusts the word of Audacity? Sorry, that doesn't cut it. Maybe if she had done research into the Eluvians I'd believe her a bit, but she wanted nothing to do with them in both the Dalish Elf Origin and DAII.

I find it far more likely that Audacity was earnestly helping Merrill but also preying on Marethari's mind. The irony in the situation would make it interesting. Marethari is so worried about Merrill becoming an abomination that she becomes one herself. She's so worried Audacity will use Merrill's pride against her (Merrill) when in fact Audacity used Marethari's pride against her (Marethari). And so on and so forth.

Specifically so she could cleanse the shard...


Buckets of lyrium would've worked too, but she doesn't have that lying around. So she needed to use blood magic.

It's not like she can go to Kirkwall's Circle and request lyrium....

....though given Kirkwall's Templars' stupidity, I guess she could've and faced no repercussions.



Merrill was in that situation in Act III in the first place because she needed to rely on the demon for more information. Maybe not everything... certainly a lot, though. Certainly for the key components in making the Eluvian work.


She only relied on Audacity for one specific thing, which she could've learned anywhere. There's nothing in the lore that says the only way to learn blood magic is through a demon.

More than likely it's the easiest way because the Chantry banned all knowledge of blood magic from ever being used, but the arcane always exists in the Fade. Torpor said it's rare to see two forgotten magics in one day in the Fade, so it's proof that the arcane is eternal in the Fade.

Not to mention blood magic isn't tied to relying on the Fade, but on the physical.

There's also nothing to say that blood magic leads to corruption. Again, more than likely it's just due to the mage becoming arrogant from the power and letting his guard down. It certainly seems the case for Uldred.

I did say perhaps. If the tome was detailed in the proper use of the Eluvian, I would call that much better researching than what Merrill did. If it was full of vague metaphors or such, maybe not.


The tome itself was written in ancient elven IIRC. At least with Merrill, she has bits of lore and research, as well as Kirkwall to go on. Kirkwall used to be an ancient Tevinter outpost, and more than likely they have some notes and things regarding the Eluvians which were at one point in the hands of the Tevinter Imperium.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 septembre 2011 - 08:03 .


#85
Ryzaki

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FieryDove wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Where is this rivalry= Hawke being a meanie head attitude from?

It makes me wonder if people saying that have even played the rivalrymance.


They haven't.


Ah makes sense. 

#86
TheJediSaint

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


I find it hard to believe anything an abomination and a hypocrite says. Marethari says not
to trust a demon yet she trusts the word of Audacity? Sorry, that
doesn't cut it. Maybe if she had done research into the Eluvians I'd
believe her a bit, but she wanted nothing to do with them in both the
Dalish Elf Origin and DAII.

I find it far more likely that Audacity was earnestly helping Merrill but also preying on Marethari's
mind. The irony in the situation would make it interesting. Marethari is
so worried about Merrill becoming an abomination that she becomes one
herself. She's so worried Audacity will use Merrill's pride against her
(Merrill) when in fact Audacity used Marethari's pride against her
(Marethari). And so on and so forth.




You're making a lot of assumptions based on some very weak evidence, as well as rejecting evidence that contradicts your own preconceptions about Merrill and her mirror. Calling Marithari and hypocrite and abomination, and therefore shouldn't be trusted, is nothing more than an Ad hominem argument. There's no reason to assume that she was lying when she said that the Audacity wanted to use the mirror to venture into the material world. In fact it is stated in multiple sources that getting into the real world is exactly what demons want to do, why is Audacity any different? There's nothing wrong with assuming the Merrill's mirror is dangerous, or that by fixing it, Merrill is endangering herself and those around her. I

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 01 septembre 2011 - 08:23 .


#87
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TheJediSaint wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


I find it hard to believe anything an abomination and a hypocrite says. Marethari says not
to trust a demon yet she trusts the word of Audacity? Sorry, that
doesn't cut it. Maybe if she had done research into the Eluvians I'd
believe her a bit, but she wanted nothing to do with them in both the
Dalish Elf Origin and DAII.

I find it far more likely that Audacity was earnestly helping Merrill but also preying on Marethari's
mind. The irony in the situation would make it interesting. Marethari is
so worried about Merrill becoming an abomination that she becomes one
herself. She's so worried Audacity will use Merrill's pride against her
(Merrill) when in fact Audacity used Marethari's pride against her
(Marethari). And so on and so forth.




You're making a lot of assumptions based on some very weak evidence, as well as rejecting evidence that contradicts your own preconceptions about Merrill and her mirror. Calling Marithari and hypocrite and abomination, and therefore shouldn't be trusted, is nothing more than an Ad hominem argument. There's no reason to assume that she was lying when she said that the Audacity wanted to use the mirror to venture into the material world. In fact it is stated in multiple sources that getting into the real world is exactly what demons want to do, why is Audacity any different? There's nothing wrong with assuming the Merrill's mirror is dangerous, or that by fixing it, Merrill is endangering herself and those around her. I



Because demons don't lie! They're ever so honest!

Marethari is a hypocrite and an abomination by Act III, and as such I find it impossible to trust her (note: I said "I can't trust her" in both cases). If Marethari knew what Audacity was planning, why would she keep this information from both Hawke and Merrill, when she even asked Hawke to make sure she doesn't receive the Arulin'holm (and by doing so, she broke her deal with Merrill. Her deal was for her to give Merrill the tool, not give it to Hawke)?

Audacity is already in the physical world and is trapped in a statue. He was sundered from the Fade like Justice was.

It was also stated by one of the devs that demons tend to seek out the mages who have both power and authority and can easily allow for the demon to change the world. Merrill can't, but Marethari can because she's the Keeper of the clan.

Torpor, Wryme, and Caress sought out Feynriel because he's a Somniari, and they are the most powerful types of mages. As such, they could change the world in incredibly horrific ways. The Desire demon sought out Connor because he was an Arl's son, and had access to the halls of power.

Who has more authority? Merrill or Marethari?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 septembre 2011 - 08:32 .


#88
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I find it far more likely that Audacity was earnestly helping Merrill but also preying on Marethari's mind. The irony in the situation would make it interesting. Marethari is so worried about Merrill becoming an abomination that she becomes one herself. She's so worried Audacity will use Merrill's pride against her (Merrill) when in fact Audacity used Marethari's pride against her (Marethari). And so on and so forth.

And he could just as well have been preying on both of them. What he said might not have been a trick at all, just a painful reality as a consequence of the fact that he already duped Merrill.

To be honest, this likelihood of him "earnestly helping Merrill" :blink:... gambling on the off chance of Marethari just being that much of a fool... sounds far less likely to me than him having multiple contingencies.

Buckets of lyrium would've worked too, but she doesn't have that lying around. So she needed to use blood magic.

It's not like she can go to Kirkwall's Circle and request lyrium....

....though given Kirkwall's Templars' stupidity, I guess she could've and faced no repercussions.

And she needed a demon to teach her how... for all we know the shard was never inherently tainted at all, it was simply still pointing at the that underground city, and the demon taught her how to redirect it to his prison on the top of Sundermount.

She only relied on Audacity for one specific thing, which she could've learned anywhere. There's nothing in the lore that says the only way to learn blood magic is through a demon.

More than likely it's the easiest way because the Chantry banned all knowledge of blood magic from ever being used, but the arcane always exists in the Fade. Torpor said it's rare to see two forgotten magics in one day in the Fade, so it's proof that the arcane is eternal in the Fade.

Not to mention blood magic isn't tied to relying on the Fade, but on the physical.

There's also nothing to say that blood magic leads to corruption. Again, more than likely it's just due to the mage becoming arrogant from the power and letting his guard down. It certainly seems the case for Uldred.

I wasn't hating on blood magic. I was pointing out how much she's relying on a demon for her knowledge on the Eluvian. She's using tools he gives her. Those aren't enough so she needs to go back again to learn more even still. Yes, she knows the risks (oh, I guess they are risks), but looking at that situation rationally it seems she's in denial about the magnitude of said risks because of her obsession to get the mirror working.

And I'm not saying what Marethari did was one of the risks, that was Marethari's problem.

The tome itself was written in ancient elven IIRC. At least with Merrill, she has bits of lore and research, as well as Kirkwall to go on. Kirkwall used to be an ancient Tevinter outpost, and more than likely they have some notes and things regarding the Eluvians which were at one point in the hands of the Tevinter Imperium.


Evidently she knew how to read it. And if Kirkwall had notes about it, they must not have helped much, since her Act III quest 10 years later is predicated on her not being able to figure it out, needing the demon's help again.

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Because demons don't lie! They're ever so honest!


And earnest!

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It was also stated by one of the devs that demons tend to seek out the mages who have both power and authority and can easily allow for the demon to change the world. Merrill can't, but Marethari can because she's the Keeper of the clan.

If Marethari was right about him coming through the Eluvian, it's unclear if he planned on possessing her to begin with. She simply said Merrill would be his "victim." Maybe he would have been loose on Thedas without needing a host. (Like that fellow from the Asunder quest in the Deep Roads in DAO, maybe?)

Modifié par Filament, 01 septembre 2011 - 08:40 .


#90
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And he could just as well have been preying on both of them. What he said might not have been a trick at all, just a painful reality as a consequence of the fact that he already duped Merrill.

To be honest, this likelihood of him "earnestly helping Merrill" ... gambling on the off chance of Marethari just being that much of a fool... sounds far less likely to me than him having multiple contingencies.


Allure the Desire demon said it's easier to magnify properties that are already present, but that she could've planted such desires if she wished to do so. Who's to say Audacity couldn't do the same in either case with pride?

And she needed a demon to teach her how... for all we know the shard was never inherently tainted at all, it was simply still pointing at the that underground city, and the demon taught her how to redirect it to his prison on the top of Sundermount.


Mahariel and the elves in the ruins in Witch Hunt question your assertion that the shards possibly weren't tainted.

Evidently she knew how to read it. And if Kirkwall had notes about it, they must not have helped much, since her Act III quest 10 years later is predicated on her not being able to figure it out, needing the demon's help again.


Still, she would've had to study the forgotten language of the elves, translate an entire book dealing with the Eluvians that was written in ancient elven text, and apply that knowledge (assuming it wasn't something like Eleni Zinovia tends to speak) to an Eluvian.

Then, she also needs to find an Eluvian, which requires either knowledge of where one is or knowledge of the Scrying ritual.

And she did all this in 2 years with a baby to take care of. Seems like she was in a bit of a rush and didn't have much time on her hands.

assuming the book was written in ancient elven. Though if it wasn't, I wouldn't understand why the Dalish of Ariane's clan didn't make use of it

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 septembre 2011 - 08:49 .


#91
TheJediSaint

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You're still using an Ad Hominem argument to support your assumptions. There is no reason to assume that the demons' stated goals were not what Marithari said. Yes, demons lie, but you're assuming that it was Audacity who was speaking when Marithari explained the demons goals, when Marithari could have very well still had enough control to speak the truth. Without real, factual evidence to support your claim, making Marithari out to be the villain is not going to make you're conclusion more valid.

#92
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Even if Mathari spoke the truth who did she learn it from, but Audacity when she herself refused to study the mirror? Given that she never told Hawke or Merrill that eluvian is a demon portal.

#93
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Allure the Desire demon said it's easier to magnify properties that are already present, but that she could've planted such desires if she wished to do so. Who's to say Audacity couldn't do the same in either case with pride?

Who's to say Audacity couldn't have done the very same with Merrill's pride? "Those other mages are sloppy and get possessed, but I know the risks, I can handle it."

Mahariel and the elves in the ruins in Witch Hunt question your assertion that the shards possibly weren't tainted.

I'm drawing a distinction between it being inherently tainted physically rather than merely radiating taint as a consequence of that to which it's connected, where if the connection were severed it would stop being so tainted. Maybe Audacity's "cleansing" was actually "rerouting."

Still, she would've had to study the forgotten language of the elves, translate an entire book dealing with the Eluvians that was written in ancient elven text, and apply that knowledge (assuming it wasn't something like Eleni Zinovia tends to speak) to an Eluvian.

Then, she also needs to find an Eluvian, which requires either knowledge of where one is or knowledge of the Scrying ritual.


I imagine she might have learned it while with Flemeth... it seems a fairly undeveloped point (I only remember one banter with Alistair really addressing it) but she's supposed to be pretty learned.

As far as the scrying ritual goes, the book could have simply had locations in it. Or maybe she did do a scrying ritual... that doesn't mean she consulted a demon to do it.

#94
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TheJediSaint wrote...

You're still using an Ad Hominem argument to support your assumptions. There is no reason to assume that the demons' stated goals were not what Marithari said. Yes, demons lie, but you're assuming that it was Audacity who was speaking when Marithari explained the demons goals, when Marithari could have very well still had enough control to speak the truth. Without real, factual evidence to support your claim, making Marithari out to be the villain is not going to make you're conclusion more valid.



So I'm to believe what Marethari says is a possibility because how I played the game and viewed what it said is wrong and you're telling me it's wrong for me to personally not believe anything she says? Image IPB

You're assuming that it was Marethari who was speaking. We've seen cases where Abominations weren't in control of their selves any more when they spoke (namely the Baroness, who sounded exactly the same).

I personally don't believe her. If it's wrong for me to not believe what Marethari says, then I'd rather stick to not believing what she says. It's what I personally believe regarding the Eluvians given what evidence we've been given of demons, the Fade, magic, elves, Marethari, Merrill, and Eluvians.

#95
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

So I'm to believe what Marethari says is a possibility because how I played the game and viewed what it said is wrong and you're telling me it's wrong for me to personally not believe anything she says? Image IPB

You're assuming that it was Marethari who was speaking. We've seen cases where Abominations weren't in control of their selves any more when they spoke (namely the Baroness, who sounded exactly the same).

I personally don't believe her. If it's wrong for me to not believe what Marethari says, then I'd rather stick to not believing what she says. It's what I personally believe regarding the Eluvians given what evidence we've been given of demons, the Fade, magic, elves, Marethari, Merrill, and Eluvians.



Im not assuming anything, nor am I making a personal attack against what you believe.  I'm simply pointing out that your argument is built on the rather weak foundation of belittling Marithari.

#96
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Because demons don't lie! They're ever so honest!


Merrill thinks so...maybe not but she sure seems that way. Anything that Hawke does that favors demons or BM she gives +friendship.

Marethari is a hypocrite and an abomination by Act III, and as such I find it impossible to trust her (note: I said "I can't trust her" in both cases).


Marethari wasn't an abomination in the typical sense at all. She had strength enough to imprison the thing inside her until Hawke and company came then *let go* because she knew they could defeat it. If she wasn't a living prison the whole clan would have been dead by the time we arrived. Yes?

If Marethari knew what Audacity was planning, why would she keep this information from both Hawke and Merrill, when she even asked Hawke to make sure she doesn't receive the Arulin'holm (and by doing so, she broke her deal with Merrill. Her deal was for her to give Merrill the tool, not give it to Hawke)?


I know you love all things Merrill but really. Do you think Merrill would have believed her or even listened to her if the keeper said all your work is going to kill you and much more, including the entire clan? Many people including Flemeth give advice and it goes in one ear and out the other. What good would telling Hawke do? Well maybe Hawke could then stop any contact with Merrill from that point on or try to talk reason to her, but see above.

Merrill didn’t defeat the Varterral, Hawke + Merrill and co. did. Not to mention She was looking right at my Hawke when she says seek it out slay it and I will give you the tool. So Hawke gets the tool and Marithari hopes that Hawke who is a friend can talk to Merrill and make her see reason. But she already knows it will be pointless but what the heck.

I miss the older Merrill from DAO. She was knowledgeable, self-assured and not babbly with Shem’s she never met before. She didn’t age she “youthened” in DA2. I feel the old Merrill would have been better suited for this role than an innocent *younger* Merrill was.

But this Merril is probably a more popular choice romancewise. Rival Merrill however seems much more lively.

Modifié par FieryDove, 01 septembre 2011 - 11:29 .


#97
TheJediSaint

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The Merrill from DA:O was blank slate with only enough personality to carry her through the thirty minute or so Dalish origin. I much preferred how Merrill turned out in DA2. She was this interesting combination of shyness, arrogance, naivete, stubbornness, and effervescence. Which is to say that she was a very complex and layered character, kinda like...a layer cake. I don't know how she ranks in overall popularity, but she was certainly my favorite of the love interests.

#98
TEWR

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Filament wrote...

Who's to say Audacity couldn't have done the very same with Merrill's pride? "Those other mages are sloppy and get possessed, but I know the risks, I can handle it."


Remember Wryme? He did the same thing to her and she knew something was wrong, but she was forced to believe it like Wryme was tugging at her heart.

She would've known if Audacity was doing something similar.

I'm drawing a distinction between it being inherently tainted physically rather than merely radiating taint as a consequence of that to which it's connected, where if the connection were severed it would stop being so tainted. Maybe Audacity's "cleansing" was actually "rerouting."


I had a counterpoint to this, but I forgot what it was because I'm really tired =/


I imagine she might have learned it while with Flemeth... it seems a fairly undeveloped point (I only remember one banter with Alistair really addressing it) but she's supposed to be pretty learned.

As far as the scrying ritual goes, the book could have simply had locations in it. Or maybe she did do a scrying ritual... that doesn't mean she consulted a demon to do it.


Or does it?

Anyway, my point is that Morrigan has so many things to do in a very short amount of time, and given how Witch Hunt doesn't go into depth about her hunt for the Eluvians, it's possible she was rushing through it more than Merrill was.

Merrill probably carefully studied each piece of lore for who knows how long to make sure she was understanding it correctly and extrapolating the right things. I've had similar things happen.

Merrill thinks so...maybe not but she sure seems that way. Anything that Hawke does that favors demons or BM she gives +friendship.


I wouldn't say it's favoring demons so much as "Try to play the demon before he plays you", which Hawke can do to demons quite a bit in the game. The Warden can too.





Marethari wasn't an abomination in the typical sense at all. She had strength enough to imprison the thing inside her until Hawke and company came then *let go* because she knew they could defeat it. If she wasn't a living prison the whole clan would have been dead by the time we arrived. Yes?


By that logic, Anders isn't a typical abomination either. Or Wynne. Or the Baroness. Or Connor.

Granted, Wynne and maybe Anders need a new name because "abomination" has a very negative connotation, as it implies they're meatball flesh sack wearing drunkards.


FieryDove wrote...
I know you love all things Merrill but really. Do you think Merrill would have believed her or even listened to her if the keeper said all your work is going to kill you and much more, including the entire clan? Many people including Flemeth give advice and it goes in one ear and out the other. What good would telling Hawke do? Well maybe Hawke could then stop any contact with Merrill from that point on or try to talk reason to her, but see above.

Merrill didn’t defeat the Varterral, Hawke + Merrill and co. did. Not to mention She was looking right at my Hawke when she says seek it out slay it and I will give you the tool. So Hawke gets the tool and Marithari hopes that Hawke who is a friend can talk to Merrill and make her see reason. But she already knows it will be pointless but what the heck.

I miss the older Merrill from DAO. She was knowledgeable, self-assured and not babbly with Shem’s she never met before. She didn’t age she “youthened” in DA2. I feel the old Merrill would have been better suited for this role than an innocent *younger* Merrill was.

But this Merril is probably a more popular choice romancewise. Rival Merrill however seems much more lively.


Would Merrill have believed it? Probably not, but Hawke could've then thought about the information he was just given and ask himself: Do I believe Marethari? Do I keep supporting Merrill?

and other questions.

Then, he can either choose not to believe Marethari, or decide that Marethari was right and try to convince Merrill that she needs to stop, especially if he's told this information before handing the Arulin'holm to Merrill.

Had that happened, I would be questioning myself on what path is really right for Merrill. But Marethari made it clear throughout both DAO and DAII that the Eluvians were best forgotten. Marethari doesn't even say how she found out Audacity would use the Eluvians (something I don't believe for a minute). Did Audacity tell her or did she actually stop being so mired in fear and do some research? We don't know. But it wouldn't make sense for Marethari to find out something so important like that if she suddenly started doing research into the Eluvians and spent less time on it than Merrill.

There's also the fact that the clan hates the Eluvians just as much as she does, so any research she did into them would have to be done by herself and in secret, which might be hard for her to do.

and the elven agreement was between Merrill and Marethari. They are the only two people there who know anything about it. Making a deal with Hawke, who knows nothing about elven ways, makes no sense.

Merrill is the primary person there making the agreement with Hawke and company as little more than witnesses.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 septembre 2011 - 11:56 .


#99
Kaiser Shepard

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Xilizhra wrote...

On the friendship path, she lets go of her Eluvian obsession in any case without Hawke's crushing emotional manipulation.

Say what now?

#100
EmperorSahlertz

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Apparently it is emotional manipulation to tell someone you love, that what they are doing is dangerous.