182 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Mr.House wrote...

If they where created in that gap then why are they not mentinoed in the last book we had that takes place a good chunk after ME2 and before ME3?

Source?

[Texhnolyze101]

Someone With Mass wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

littlezack wrote...

When did 'because it's fun' become a bad reason to have something in a game?

When it's done in a bad, tastless way?
When it's shallow and stupid?
When it isn't fun to begin with?

Oh, grow up. Some people like it, some don't. You're not even forced to use the thing.

I think the regular melee is better, anyway.

2 hit punch? YES PLEASE!

[sp0ck 06]

From the codex:

Omni-tools are handheld devices that combine a computer microframe, sensor analysis pack, and minifacturing fabricator. Versatile and reliable, an omni-tool can be used to analyze and adjust the functionality of most standard equipment, including weapons and armor, from a distance.

The fabrication module can rapidly assemble small three-dimensional objects from common, reusable industrial plastics, ceramics, and light alloys. This allows for field repairs and modifications to most standard items, as well as the reuse of salvaged equipment and applying medicine from stimulants to medi-gel.


SO

The Omni-Blade is a thin blade constructed and extended from the tool. It's probably almost microscopic thin, so the tool also projects a holographic "shell" around the blade to prevent accidents.

Whats the problem?

[Someone With Mass]

Il Divo wrote...

Alien biology was an ass pull as well.

Not to mention the convenient translators.

[Heather Cline]

The hologram of an omni-tool is solid enough to punch up data. So it's not much of a stretch to cause it to extend a blade and make it deadly.

Look at the tech armor from ME2. Glowing holographic armor that takes damage and then explodes causing damage to nearby enemies. The tech armor is just letting loose pent up energy to cause damage. Not that far a stretch of the imagination. I'm neutral about this whole thing but it's not that bad of a thing.

[Enigmatick]

@Mr.House is your avatar some LoTS reference i'm not getting?

[Phaedon]

Dionkey wrote...
 I agree, the flashlight in ME1 made no sense, and I think it is just as bad as everything else I mentioned here. The medi-gel is administered through dispensers in the suit, the omni-tool just has a function to dispense it. The first game pretty much stays true to haptic interface projectors all the way through, I don't see the issue.

Umm. What exactly IS your argument?

It makes as much sense as the omni-blade. Plenty.

Omni-tools need to have solid components, otherwise, they don't work. You can't project an image if you don't have a projector. If they do have some solid components, why not have other solid components?

-Flashlights. ME1.
-RUVIS Lights. LotSB.
-Wireless extranet connections. ME1.
-Video/camera recorders. LotSB.
-Central Processing Units. ME1.

And because you clearly missed my point with the medi-gel tech. Let's try again.
Why does the omni-tool consisting partially of haptic interface tech, somehow stop it from interacting with other solid components? Or in fact, having other  solid components?

I should have worded that better, because they are really bursts of energy. What is this material that makes these drones? I don't see any, so it must be on a molecular level. Even then, why would you make a drone like that? The combat drones from the first game made much more sense. Where do these drones get power to operate and fire bursts of energy?

Can't see In-Game =/= Molecular Level

Bursts of energy? Err, absolutely not.
That's your own theory, which makes no sense, while there are much better ones out there which makes sense.

Do omni-tools have projectors? Yes, they do. Can you see them in-game? No.
Do omni-tools have other solid components. Yes they do. Can you see them in-game? Only their effects.
Do drones require separate projectors? Yes, they do.
Do drones require other solid components. Yes they do.

If a drone can have a mobile projector, which it must, then it clearly can have other mobile components which can attack enemies. Small ones, consistent with the damage they do.

Oh, and why not conventional drones? Because those are not so mobile and you need a new drone every single time your enemy takes them out?

Except the fact that the armor appears one your head even when you are not wearing a helmet. Unless Shepard got some nice projectors installed in his head after being rebuilt. This is something else ME1 missed, the fact that omni-tools appear on bare skin. I still believe that ME1 tried to avoid using Omni-tool technology to such insane lengths.

And therefore both, the tech armor and the omni-tools must have projectors that are too small to see in-game, which makes perfect sense.

What's your point? The barriers/armor in ME2 don't make sense anyway, so how would they make sense to be projectiles/bursts of energy?

Oh dear. They are kinetic slugs. End of story.

"Don't make sense" is just you. If it is so, haptic interface in ME1 and especially geth barriers and omni-tools make no sense.
But if the game says that they are there, and there are reasonable explanations for it, even today, let alone 2 centuries from now, they make sense, even if you don't want them to.

Again, illogical nonsense that would be so un-managable that it isn't practical. All this stuff is cool looking, but the military would never develope this. I understand some things in ME push the boundaries, but this is just so unnecessary and impractical that it doesn't make sense.

"DARPA is not developing diamond blades right now, so it must still be impractical two centuries from now." is seriously your argument? Well, I am really sorry if you can say it with a straight face.

Unnecessary? No, it's very necessary for the gameplay and the universe. And unnecessary is not a cool sounding buzz word.

Modifié par Phaedon, 18 août 2011 - 08:41 .

[Phaedon]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

From the codex:

Omni-tools are handheld devices that combine a computer microframe, sensor analysis pack, and manufacturing fabricator. Versatile and reliable, an omni-tool can be used to analyze and adjust the functionality of most standard equipment, including weapons and armor, from a distance.

And this is the point where ME2 drones and tech armour need no further explanation.

Modifié par Phaedon, 18 août 2011 - 08:42 .

[crimzontearz]

I like the omniblade. Solid holograms are not a new concept in ME. Who exactly was being interviewed in this Q&A?

Also...omniblades are awesome BUT.....the adepts have the "biotic open palm strike of awesomeness" happening...

[Il Divo]

crimzontearz wrote...

I like the omniblade. Solid holograms are not a new concept in ME. Who exactly was being interviewed in this Q&A?

Also...omniblades are awesome BUT.....the adepts have the "biotic open palm strike of awesomeness" happening...

Clearly a subtle reference to Bioware's masterpiece, Jade Empire.

Modifié par Il Divo, 18 août 2011 - 08:48 .

[crimzontearz]

eh...jade empire wasnever my cup of tea (I hate asian-like settings)

I pretend it's a subtle reference to Hokuto no Ken (and shepard will bust out saying "your body is dead, your mind just does not know it yet....you have 5 seconds to live")

[Dionkey]

Phaedon wrote...

*snip*

Quoting all these would be hell on Earth if this argument continues, so I will try to sum it up. If the game has projectors for omni-tools that we cannot see, then we are just making assumptions, correct? What kind of parts make up these things? How are they so small that they can't render them in game? 

As for the drone issue, they do fire bursts of energy: 


Attack Drone:
You have upgraded the combat drone so it's electric shock damages health, armour, and biotic barriers.

Explosive Drone:
Your combat drone is rigged to explode when destroyed, pulsing energy that inflicts high damage on all near by enemies.

(Source http://masseffect.wi...ki/Combat_Drone)

Where do they get the ability to electrically shock things and explode? The thing about conventional drones just voids your whole argument. Combat drones require material (if not that then magic) to operate in your argument, correct? Then what makes losing a combat drone any less of a loss than a regular drone? It's because the drones were built with gameplay and not lore in mind.

I am not saying that they cannot create diamond blades, but why make them so flashy and complex? You could easily implement a cartridge that super heated a REAL diamond blade that would be way more efficient and easier to maintain than an omni-blade that is on shaky ground lore-wise. Be honest, the reason they implemented this thing was for marketing buzz, nothing else. The cerberus troopers use shock-sticks for crying out loud, so they aren't all about laser weapons and flashy lights.

[Someone With Mass]

Dionkey wrote...

I am not saying that they cannot create diamond blades, but why make them so flashy and complex? You could easily implement a cartridge that super heated a REAL diamond blade that would be way more efficient and easier to maintain than an omni-blade that is on shaky ground lore-wise. Be honest, the reason they implemented this thing was for marketing buzz, nothing else. The cerberus troopers use shock-sticks for crying out loud, so they aren't all about laser weapons and flashy lights.

Geth loves those shiny omni-blades, though.

[sp0ck 06]

Dionkey wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

*snip*

Quoting all these would be hell on Earth if this argument continues, so I will try to sum it up. If the game has projectors for omni-tools that we cannot see, then we are just making assumptions, correct? What kind of parts make up these things? How are they so small that they can't render them in game? 

As for the drone issue, they do fire bursts of energy: 


[/u][u]Attack Drone:
You have upgraded the combat drone so it's electric shock damages health, armour, and biotic barriers.

Explosive Drone:
Your combat drone is rigged to explode when destroyed, pulsing energy that inflicts high damage on all near by enemies.

(Source http://masseffect.wi...ki/Combat_Drone)

Where do they get the ability to electrically shock things and explode? The thing about conventional drones just voids your whole argument. Combat drones require material (if not that then magic) to operate in your argument, correct? Then what makes losing a combat drone any less of a loss than a regular drone? It's because the drones were built with gameplay and not lore in mind.

I am not saying that they cannot create diamond blades, but why make them so flashy and complex? You could easily implement a cartridge that super heated a REAL diamond blade that would be way more efficient and easier to maintain than an omni-blade that is on shaky ground lore-wise. Be honest, the reason they implemented this thing was for marketing buzz, nothing else. The cerberus troopers use shock-sticks for crying out loud, so they aren't all about laser weapons and flashy lights.

Read the codex dude.  The omni tool is capable of small scale manufacturing.  So the drones are just small pieces of alloy or whatever covered with a holographic shell for identification.  

So you would rather not have an omni blade...why?  It fits with the lore....

Just because its cool and you think its a "marketing buzz"?

I think melee combat was sorely lacking in both functionality and coolness in the first two games.  Considering how close quarters much of the combat is, a focus on special melee moves is a welcome addition to the game.  Would you rather we have a baton, or elbow spike?  Omni blade fits perfectly with the games vibe and is a much needed feature.

[Dionkey]

sp0ck 06 wrote...
Read the codex dude.  The omni tool is capable of small scale manufacturing.  So the drones are just small pieces of alloy or whatever covered with a holographic shell for identification.  

So you would rather not have an omni blade...why?  It fits with the lore....

Just because its cool and you think its a "marketing buzz"?

I think melee combat was sorely lacking in both functionality and coolness in the first two games.  Considering how close quarters much of the combat is, a focus on special melee moves is a welcome addition to the game.  Would you rather we have a baton, or elbow spike?  Omni blade fits perfectly with the games vibe and is a much needed feature.

But where does the energy come from? It isn't explained. The omni-blade may 'fit' with the visual feel of the series, but it still doesn't make practical sense. A convential super-heated blade that jetted out of an attachment on your arm would be much more efficient and would not be a waste of energy or components. 

[marshalleck]

Stop posting GIFs of ME3. You're reminding me how bored I am of ME2.

[Phaedon]

Dionkey wrote...
Quoting all these would be hell on Earth if this argument continues, so I will try to sum it up.

By not replying to some of my arguments? I don't know why I bother replying to these posts if you are just going to go ahead and ignore entire points.

If the game has projectors for omni-tools that we cannot see, then we are just making assumptions, correct? What kind of parts make up these things? How are they so small that they can't render them in game?

For them to not appear in-game they just need to be a few centimetres long at maximum really. And no, absolutely not. Omni-tools have haptic interfaces. These are holograms.

Holograms need to be projected. There is absolutely no question about that. The holograms don't appear out of thin air, and if they do, your "Hurr durr ME2 magic" non-argument falls apart. But let's not be ridiculous. Just because it explicitly says that holograms are used on a frequent basis, but they don't have an entry on them that explains from where they are projected (Pro-tip: Most of the technolodgy the basis of which is already known today is not repeated by either game), it doesn't mean that ME1 is a garbage filled with magic.

Because visible barriers and holograms are a huge part of ME1.
Geth Barriers, omni-tools, Saren's and Sovereign's holograms, haptic interfaces throughout the universe.

And you want to know what they have?

"he development of practical minifacturing omni-tools allows modern militaries a great deal of flexibility in equipment load-outs. A vast number of field modification kits, or "upgrades", are available for common equipment such as weapons, armor, omni-tools, biotic amps, and even grenades.An upgrade kit typically consists of less than a dozen unique parts and an optical storage disc. When loaded into an omni-tool, the OSD provides all technical specifications required to manufacture the tool and additional parts necessary to install the upgrade onto another piece of equipment. Assembly is typically modular, and installation can be completed in less than a minute.Since omni-tools are designed to use common battlefield salvage materials such as plastics, ceramics, and light materials (rendered into semi-molten "omni-gel" for quick use), it is quite possible for a trained soldier carrying upgrade kits to customize gear on the battlefield to fit the current tactical situation."

That's right.

"provides all technical specifications required to manufacture the tool and additional parts necessary to install the upgrade onto another piece of equipment."

Tools are constructed on the spot, such as drones, for example:
The development of practical minifacturing omni-tools allows modern militaries a great deal of flexibility in equipment load-outs.

Attack Drone:
You have upgraded the combat drone so it's electric shock damages health, armour, and biotic barriers.

Explosive Drone:
Your combat drone is rigged to explode when destroyed, pulsing energy that inflicts high damage on all near by enemies.

(Source http://masseffect.wi...ki/Combat_Drone)

Where do they get the ability to electrically shock things and explode? The thing about conventional drones just voids your whole argument. Combat drones require material (if not that then magic) to operate in your argument, correct? Then what makes losing a combat drone any less of a loss than a regular drone? It's because the drones were built with gameplay and not lore in mind.

[/b]

As for the drone issue, they do fire bursts of energy:

Um,they explode and cause electrocution from close contact. They don't fire magic beams of energy as you want them to. Solid pieces, as I have said for a million times, are required for these processes.

I am not saying that they cannot create diamond blades, but why make them so flashy and complex?

Complex is a buzz word.
Flashy? If you mean the default color of the omni-tool, and how it is flashy, maybe so that you don't hold that blade in your hands and don't know where to aim. Or for safety issues. Or to make sure that it's up.

In fact, it's nonsensical to not know where and if that extremely dangerous weapon is ready for use.

You could easily implement a cartridge that super heated a REAL diamond blade that would be way more efficient and easier to maintain than an omni-blade that is on shaky ground lore-wise.

Except that it's you who is the only one breaking the lore, again.
Weapons do NOT fire cartridges.
There is nothing wrong with the explanation. Using "shaky" as a buzz word doesn't help prove your point at all.

Be honest, the reason they implemented this thing was for marketing buzz, nothing else. The cerberus troopers use shock-sticks for crying out loud, so they aren't all about laser weapons and flashy lights.

Yeah, a weapon used primarily for LTL that doesn't do as much lethal damage is a good idea. Or maybe anything remotely awesome you see must be burned. Why? Well, hurr durr herp derp, that's why.

Modifié par Phaedon, 18 août 2011 - 09:23 .

[Phaedon]

Dionkey wrote...
 It isn't explained. The omni-blade may 'fit' with the visual feel of the series, but it still doesn't make practical sense. A convential super-heated blade that jetted out of an attachment on your arm would be much more efficient and would not be a waste of energy or components. 

Stop saying "doesn't make practical sense" for the sake of your own credibility. Much more efficient? At melee?
Or when you have dropped your weapon?

But where does the energy come from?

The hell?

Whether you are talking about the exploding things or the omni-blade you make the same amount of sense.
What energy?

[Sgt Stryker]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

I am not saying that they cannot create diamond blades, but why make them so flashy and complex? You could easily implement a cartridge that super heated a REAL diamond blade that would be way more efficient and easier to maintain than an omni-blade that is on shaky ground lore-wise. Be honest, the reason they implemented this thing was for marketing buzz, nothing else. The cerberus troopers use shock-sticks for crying out loud, so they aren't all about laser weapons and flashy lights.

<gif>

Geth loves those shiny omni-blades, though.

So, omni-blades are a geth invention adopted by Shepard? Works for me.

[sympathy4saren]

Mr.House wrote...

That's Biowares excuse for why holograms can be used as weapons now.

Awesome blade, will the awesome button be in ME3 too?

It's called the trigger. Trigger= awesome

[Someone With Mass]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

So, omni-blades are a geth invention adopted by Shepard? Works for me.

Nah, they were probably not even meant to have them, but there will be enemies that are using swords.

[DarkDragon777]

I think it's fair to assume that since the galactic economy is much larger in ME3, these omni-blades have already been in production, and are now available to all military personnel due to increased funds.

[Someone With Mass]

I'm actually curious of how the tutorial for the omni-blade will play out.

[Dionkey]

[quote]Phaedon wrote...
By not replying to some of my arguments? I don't know why I bother replying to these posts if you are just going to go ahead and ignore entire points.[/quote] Yeah, y'know, ignoring the fact that my next point covered the two I didn't bother to reply to directly.

[quote]Phaedon wrote...

For them to not appear in-game they just need to be a few centimetres long at maximum really. And no, absolutely not. Omni-tools have haptic interfaces. These are holograms. [/quote] Omni-tools are NOT haptic interfaces, those are separate. In reality, omni tools are simply a display and programs. The haptic force-feedback is from the specially made gloves, armor, or implants in one skin.

[quote]Phaedon wrote...
Holograms need to be projected. There is absolutely no question about that. The holograms don't appear out of thin air, and if they do, your "Hurr durr ME2 magic" non-argument falls apart. But let's not be ridiculous. Just because it explicitly says that holograms are used on a frequent basis, but they don't have an entry on them that explains from where they are projected (Pro-tip: Most of the technolodgy the basis of which is already known today is not repeated by either game), it doesn't mean that ME1 is a garbage filled with magic. [/quote] Actually, it is magic. 
Magic: The power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.
If it isn't explained, then the force driving it is mysterious and might as well be supernatural. Until they spefically state and detail how this technology works down to a tee, I won't believe one bit of the science behind it.

[quote]Phaedon wrote...
Because visible barriers and holograms are a huge part of ME1.
Geth Barriers, omni-tools, Saren's and Sovereign's holograms, haptic interfaces throughout the universe.[/quote] Is that a joke? The holograms projected by Saren and Sovereign are all in areas that are capable of projecting them on a grand scale. What about when Donovan Hock's image just blows up out of thin air in the Kasumi mission? His hologram doesn't even seem to have a point where it is being projected from, it's just sort of there. Why would he ever have a projector that would project his image like that in his vault? Was he waiting for the one day for someone to come steal his treasure? I suppose ME really has gone the way of comic-books.

[quote]Phaedon wrote...
And you want to know what they have?

"he development of practical minifacturing omni-tools allows modern militaries a great deal of flexibility in equipment load-outs. A vast number of field modification kits, or "upgrades", are available for common equipment such as weapons, armor, omni-tools, biotic amps, and even grenades.An upgrade kit typically consists of less than a dozen unique parts and an optical storage disc. When loaded into an omni-tool, the OSD provides all technical specifications required to manufacture the tool and additional parts necessary to install the upgrade onto another piece of equipment. Assembly is typically modular, and installation can be completed in less than a minute.Since omni-tools are designed to use common battlefield salvage materials such as plastics, ceramics, and light materials (rendered into semi-molten "omni-gel" for quick use), it is quite possible for a trained soldier carrying upgrade kits to customize gear on the battlefield to fit the current tactical situation."

That's right.

"provides all technical specifications required to manufacture the tool and additional parts necessary to install the upgrade onto another piece of equipment."

Tools are constructed on the spot, such as drones, for example:
The development of practical minifacturing omni-tools allows modern militaries a great deal of flexibility in equipment load-outs.[/quote] Hey, isn't it cool that in ME2, when they got rid of omni-gel, that all the insane, unbelieveable stuff started happening? I suppose Shepard just has an infinite supply of omni-gel to constantly manufacture these turrets. Maybe, if they would have kept omni-gel, and had you destroy equipment to get it, that it would be believable.




[quote]Attack Drone:
You have upgraded the combat drone so it's electric shock damages health, armour, and biotic barriers.

Explosive Drone:
Your combat drone is rigged to explode when destroyed, pulsing energy that inflicts high damage on all near by enemies.

(Source http://masseffect.wi...ki/Combat_Drone)

Where do they get the ability to electrically shock things and explode? The thing about conventional drones just voids your whole argument. Combat drones require material (if not that then magic) to operate in your argument, correct? Then what makes losing a combat drone any less of a loss than a regular drone? It's because the drones were built with gameplay and not lore in mind.[/quote][/b]

[quote]
[/quote]
[quote]Phaedon wrote...
Um,they explode and cause electrocution from close contact. They don't fire magic beams of energy as you want them to. Solid pieces, as I have said for a million times, are required for these processes.[/quote] You have never answered the question of where they get this energy from. These stun attacks and such are bursts of energy because they are outputting energy to deal damage.


[quote]
[/quote][quote]Phaedon wrote...
Complex is a buzz word.
Flashy? If you mean the default color of the omni-tool, and how it is flashy, maybe so that you don't hold that blade in your hands and don't know where to aim. Or for safety issues. Or to make sure that it's up.

In fact, it's nonsensical to not know where and if that extremely dangerous weapon is ready for use.[/quote] This has to be the weakest point in your argument. Do you see special forces running around with leds on their knife because it could harm them? I realize the heat coming off these things is dangerous just to touch, but the glow of metal being at the temperature would be more than enough to give it away. Adding omni-tool holograms does nothing but look fancy.
[quote]
[/quote][quote]Phaedon wrote...
Except that it's you who is the only one breaking the lore, again.
Weapons do NOT fire cartridges.
There is nothing wrong with the explanation. Using "shaky" as a buzz word doesn't help prove your point at all.[/quote] What are you smoking? When did I say anything about firing cartridges? A cartridge that could heat up the blade and would only need to be dispensed when out of energy would work fine. And stop saying 'buzz words', it's getting on my nerves. Using a wide vocabulary is not against the rules.


[quote]
[/quote][quote]Phaedon wrote...
Yeah, a weapon used primarily for LTL that doesn't do as much lethal damage is a good idea. Or maybe anything remotely awesome you see must be burned. Why? Well, hurr durr herp derp, that's why.
[/quote] No, I don't have a problem with things looking cool, but not when you are putting on a light show just to attract a casual audience. DUDE THAT IS SO SICK LETS GO BUY MASS EFFECT IT IS LIKE GEARS OF WAR AND HAS LAZORS AND SWORDS AND BOMBS AND STUFF YEAH SICK!! 

EDIT: No matter how many times I remove the previous quote boxes, they return anyway. Sorry for the messy structure, I can't edit it 

Modifié par Dionkey, 18 août 2011 - 09:54 .

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Mr.House wrote...

That's Biowares excuse for why holograms can be used as weapons now.

Awesome blade, will the awesome button be in ME3 too?

Are you dumb ? It's obvious he didnt know what to say. This means they havent considered omni-blade functionality in theory (how it works, kill).