48 réponses à ce sujet

[J Muffin]

  -SPOILERS ARE PRESENT- 

The Exiled Prince. Dragon Age II's version of The Stone Prisoner. New companion and his own personal quests to go along with it. When you get to the end of the game, you are FORCED to choose between Sebastian and Anders. I have asked BioWare staff themselves if there is any way at all to keep both of them, even with the new Legacy DLC, and all have said it is one or the other. This petition is here to change that. 

I understand that many players enjoy being forced to choose, they all have their reasons. Some kill Anders anyway, some never enjoyed Sebastian anyway, some just enjoy the inner turmoil of having to decide which one to choose. But from what I've seen, the majority of the community is always asking and hoping there's a way to keep them both. I and many others feel that is unfair to anyone who got the DLC, whether they got it for free with the Signature Edition or paid 7 dollars for it. To quote staff member JohnEpler, in regards to Sebastian, "If you refuse to do it, he's out and he won't be coming back." And he won't be coming back. I am aware that doesn't defeat the possibility of a return of Sebastian in future DLC, but nothing has been announced yet. I don't want to bore you to death with a super long novel detailing everything, so I'm going to get my main point across in as few words as I can. 

Regardless of your opinions on Sebastian and/or Anders, to force a choice like that is wrong, especially to the people who spent money on the DLC. People buy the DLC thinking they're going to get a new companion to add to their arsenal which, while true, they are not aware that it pretty much kills your ending. Since I know it would be wrong and likely against policy to warn purchasers in the product description of what the DLC does with your final decision, many people have spent the money only to be given a false belief and in the end be disappointed, angered, and saddened. This petition's purpose is to get BioWare to add a patch/update to The Exiled Prince that would allow you to, say you filled certain criteria, have the option to keep Sebastian and Anders. By certain criteria, it could be anything BioWare wanted, but as long as you accomplished certain objectives, it would give you a "star" dialogue choice that would convince Sebastian to stay with you if you let Anders live and fight with you. This petition is NOT to take away the choice to kill Anders or lose Sebastian, but merely to add the option to keep them both, so that new purchasers won't risk being forced into disappointment, and people who have alerady purchased it can experience what it would be like. 

There's no formal way to sign an online petition, so say what you need to say, so long as you end your post with "signed" or "not signed" and if this topic makes you angry, feel free to express your passion, whether you agree or disagree with this standpoint. With enough signatures, hopefully BioWare will release an update, or at least announce/add Sebastian to future DLC. 

We can do this.

[randomcheeses]

Whining much?

[J Muffin]

Like I said, some people agree, some people disagree. If you want to call it whining, go right ahead. I call it bringing to attention the concerns of many in full force.

[Addai]

You didn't have Shale in post-campaign content, either. I don't see the problem.

[J Muffin]

Shale has hardly any impact on your ending. Sebastian forces you to choose. If Shale said "Either Morrigan goes or I go" I'm sure many people who got the DLC would have done the same thing that I'm doing now.

[leggywillow]

You still have him for almost all of Acts 2 and 3.  He's only not present for the final few fights, so I don't feel like that's money wasted.  I think a more reasonable petition would be for Sebastian to become available in Act 1... not that Bioware is going to do either, nor do they need to.

[LT123]

Isn't this just like the choice at the Landsmeet? It's more dramatic if you have to pick either Anders or Sebastian instead of having the option to just persuade Seb into staying. I'd think less of him as a character if he gave in that easily.

Modifié par LT123, 18 août 2011 - 10:19 .

[J Muffin]

That's why you'd need to fulfill certain difficult criteria in order to do so. If you didn't fulfill a certain part of that criteria, you're forced to make the choice, but if you fulfill certain criteria, you can choose Anders, Sebastian, or both.

[Heidenreich]

LT123 wrote...

Isn't this just like the choice at the Landsmeet? It's more dramatic if you have to pick either Anders or Sebastian instead of having the option to just persuade Seb into staying. I'd think less of him as a character if he gave in that easily.

It's the only time he ever actually makes a desision. Don't ruin a good thing. Its his shining moment. If he gave in and was like "K even tho he tots just killed my surrogate mom I'm tots gonna stay with youuuuuuuuuuuu even if you dont kill him" then I'd REALLY REALLY be mad and demand my money back.

If you want Seb, kill Anders and move on ;p If you want Anders, tell Seb to eff off. It's not broken, its true to who the character is.

Modifié par Heidenreich, 18 août 2011 - 10:22 .

[Xalen]

okay, so let me get this straight: you want to take away the crucial part of Sebastian's characterization only because you don't get to play with him in the final battle and post-campaign?
In other words, you want to limit character development because of gameplay reason?
Heh.

Yes, you have to choose between Sebastian and Anders (although the choice is mostly "kill Anders or not"), but there's s perfectly good in-character reason for it.
It is very important to his character that he allows his need for revenge to take over Elthina's and Chantry teachings or his sense or loyalty to Hawke or whatever.
And it creates some nice parallels between his character and Anders too.
Adding the option for him to stay would be a disservice to Sebastian's character. I'd think that would "anger" and "sadden" DLC-buyers more, but what do I know...

Anyway, considering we know two facts: 1) Sebastian's writer stated that his story is not over yet and 2) we are not allowed to kill him despite perfect in-game motive and opportunity to do so, it's not a big leap of logic to assume that he will play a role in future games/DLC even if he left the party.

[LobselVith8]

J Muffin wrote...

Like I said, some people agree, some people disagree. If you want to call it whining, go right ahead. I call it bringing to attention the concerns of many in full force.

I don't think they plan on doing anything about it, especially given the criticism over how the developers handled the mages in Dragon Age 2 and how asinine and lore-breaking their portrayal was, which amounted to nothing being done about it. Given the additional criticism over how the dialogue options never have the protagonist saying what's listed or how bad the story was, I don't see the developers implementing the changes you're looking for.

[Knight of Dane]

I think it is great as it is. It's more intense and you really get that feeling that you have two conflicting teammates. It would be super spineless of bioware to put a new option in to magically convince Sebastian that keeping Anders is ok, that would go against his character.

[Addai]

J Muffin wrote...

Shale has hardly any impact on your ending. Sebastian forces you to choose. If Shale said "Either Morrigan goes or I go" I'm sure many people who got the DLC would have done the same thing that I'm doing now.

So you're only concerned about who you have in the final battle?

Origins had various crisis points where you could lose a companion.  You could lose Shale if you chose a certain quest outcome.  Having consequences for your decisions is something the franchise needs more of, not less.

Regardless, I feel pretty confident in predicting the dev response to this "petition":  Suck it up, princess.

Modifié par Addai67, 18 août 2011 - 11:15 .

[Gespenst]

What makes this the official petition? If I started a petition for the same thing would it be less official than this one?

[Aggie Punbot]

As I recall, petitions aren't even allowed on the forums.

[FieryDove]

TS2Aggie wrote...

As I recall, petitions aren't even allowed on the forums.

Correct.

[David Gaider]

Of all the things I would even *want* to change about DA2, being forced to choose between Anders and Sebastian at the end is not one of them.

[FieryDove]

David Gaider wrote...

Of all the things I would even *want* to change about DA2, being forced to choose between Anders and Sebastian at the end is not one of them.

I am glad you are still around. Now about a Legacy patch.

[Apollo Starflare]

David Gaider wrote...

Of all the things I would even *want* to change about DA2, being forced to choose between Anders and Sebastian at the end is not one of them.

Indeed.

Sometimes there is no third option that makes everyone happy, deal with it OP?

[esper]

I don't understand. People want choices that matters, but when they have to make the choice they a dissatisfied with that as well...
I would have lost all respect for Sebastians' character if he had stayed in a party that involved the murderer of his mother figure. I don't mind losing the extra character in the last half hour/hour of the game because I made a choice he can't accept. It should be like that.

[john-in-france]

I would willingly sign a petition to update the Exiled Prince for missing scenes, romance completion, Starkhaven plot, and earlier party membership. What I hoped to read when I clicked on the thread.

I can not say that updating for the choice to keep both Anders and Sebastian is a good reason.
The choice is a major part of the characterisation and plotline, not to mention future storylines.

Not signed.

[Ellyria]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Of all the things I would even *want* to change about DA2, being forced to choose between Anders and Sebastian at the end is not one of them.

Indeed.

Sometimes there is no third option that makes everyone happy, deal with it OP?

Hawke: Well you know, there are three of us...

Owait, wrong game. 

[FieryDove]

esper wrote...

I don't understand. People want choices that matters, but when they have to make the choice they a dissatisfied with that as well...
I would have lost all respect for Sebastians' character if he had stayed in a party that involved the murderer of his mother figure. I don't mind losing the extra character in the last half hour/hour of the game because I made a choice he can't accept. It should be like that.

I agree but the choice didn't go far enough for some characters I'm guessing. When he did his "Destroy Kirkwall" to get to Anders threat we should have had the MK option. Only fair. imho

[aries1001]

A comparison here: I so much wanted Isabella back when I went to see the Arishok. She didn't. And it was a heartbreaking, touching and sad moment. For the rest of DA2, Isabella is out. And probably it means that Sebastian won't be coming back in DA2 either - but maybe another time...

[esper]

FieryDove wrote...

esper wrote...

I don't understand. People want choices that matters, but when they have to make the choice they a dissatisfied with that as well...
I would have lost all respect for Sebastians' character if he had stayed in a party that involved the murderer of his mother figure. I don't mind losing the extra character in the last half hour/hour of the game because I made a choice he can't accept. It should be like that.

I agree but the choice didn't go far enough for some characters I'm guessing. When he did his "Destroy Kirkwall" to get to Anders threat we should have had the MK option. Only fair. imho

Yeah I wanted the MK option as well. Actually I wanted that option when sebastian began talking about turning in malificars with my Hawke being the only blood mage in the party at the time...  Not lucky bioware. Sebastian should not be having that banter when Hawke is a mage, but then again I think that Sebastian is struck by blind templar syndrome.
During the whole act three Sebastian openly threatened everything my Hawke cared about and loved, and I am supposed to think that she allows him to walk away after threatning to destroy Kirkwall... (Honestly I properly couldn't MK him, I get too attached to characters...)
If I want anything changed about Sebastian it is that he at least regonizes that Hawke is a mage (if Hawke is a mage), sometimes he talks like he is not aware of it.