17 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave2380]

 Okay so if you give Merrill the Sylvanwood ring and listen to the story of the Betrayal then you find out that Fen'Harel the dread wolf tricked the Dalish Creators and their counterparts and sealed them away.

So if the Creators were bound to heaven and their counterparts were bound in the earth, maybe the Old Gods were the adversaries of the Creators. Binding the old gods in the earth would leave him as the only god/entity/deity kicking around and he could easily whisper in Andraste's ear and spark her rebellion, which conveniently targets the Tevinter Imperium ruled by magisters who've already managed to physically breach the fade. The Creators could be locked away in the Fade somewhere and Andraste's followers and their suppression of mages would stop the fade being breached again.

It would also explain why the elves lost their immortality, it could have been a gift from the Creators or a side effect of their existence, and it's also a plausible idea for the sinking of Arlathan seeing as the Imperium worshipped the Old gods. The Dalish and Tevinter warring because of their opposing pantheons.

It's also a possibility for the corruption of the Golden City. Fen'Harel usurped it and corrupted it's power and Corypheus and his other Magisters/Proto-Darkspawn thought they could enter the Creators domain and steal all their golden power. We all know how well that turned out though:D

Any massive, glaring flaws in my theory?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It's a popular theory but it makes no sense to me. The dalish stories say that Fen'Harel laughed when Arlathan was swallowed by the earth. So he doesn't really care about the elves or their enemies.I also don't think that the Forgotten Ones are the Old Gods. They don't have similar sounding traits. The Forgotten Ones weren't said to be dragons and from what little we know of the Forgotten Ones there might have only been 3, because those are the only names the Dalish have for them.

Why would Fen'Harel want to spark Andraste's rebellion? It was a highly positive change for Thedas, that's the opposite of what he supposedly wanted. Even if one is of the opinion that the Chantry is as evil as the Tevinter Imperium, their actions are not Andraste's fault. The Chant of Light doesn't say you should oppress mages, just that magic should not oppress mankind. None of it sounds like the thing he'd want people to promote to many people.

Merill says that Fen'Harel hates wisdom and kindness above all.

The Chant of of Light says "A learned child is a blessing unto his onto the Maker" and "Blessed are the peacekeepers, champions of the just."

Merrill says that the dalish don't think of the fade as the home of their Gods. So I don't think that "the Heavens" that the dalish refer to is the Fade. And I doubt that "the Abyss" that the Forgotten Ones were sealed away in was the deep roads.  The similarities between the Maker sealing away the Old Gods underground for usurping his place in the hearts of mankind and Fen'Harel tricking and sealing away the Creators and the Forgotten Ones stirkes me as flimsy at best.

I doubt that Corypheus wanted to usurp the power of the Creators. Since the magisters worshiped the Old Gods, I expect that "the power of the gods themselves" was not a reference to the deities of the people they long enslaved.

I think if Fen'Harel was invovled at any point it's most likely he impersonated Dumat and fooled the Magisters into invading the Golden City and spreading the darkspawn taint and causing the blight., but even that is just speculation from me.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 18 août 2011 - 09:54 .

[whykikyouwhy]

@Dave2380 - I'm curious what role Fen'Harel has in Thedas now within your theory. Is he sitting back watching his schemes and machinations unfold? Is he taking a direct role in mortal life?

My hesitation with him being part and party to the taint would be that unleashing that corruption upon the world might be good for some fun and kicks, but only for awhile. Eventually when mankind crumbles beneath the darkspawn hordes, who will be left to worship the Trickster?

[bleetman]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Eventually when mankind crumbles beneath the darkspawn hordes, who will be left to worship the Trickster?

That's when he unleashes the Rainbowspawn.

[TEWR]

bleetman wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Eventually when mankind crumbles beneath the darkspawn hordes, who will be left to worship the Trickster?

That's when he unleashes the Rainbowspawn.

They're dire bunnies aren't they?

[whykikyouwhy]

bleetman wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Eventually when mankind crumbles beneath the darkspawn hordes, who will be left to worship the Trickster?

That's when he unleashes the Rainbowspawn.

Rainbowspawn might be what falls out of the Maker!piñata, along with the old(er) gods.

They'll ride plump unicorns.

[whykikyouwhy]

I was hoping for Randall, but ok. Dan Green could work.

[Macropodmum]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

@Dave2380 - I'm curious what role Fen'Harel has in Thedas now within your theory. Is he sitting back watching his schemes and machinations unfold? Is he taking a direct role in mortal life?

My hesitation with him being part and party to the taint would be that unleashing that corruption upon the world might be good for some fun and kicks, but only for awhile. Eventually when mankind crumbles beneath the darkspawn hordes, who will be left to worship the Trickster?

Not to mention by unleashing the taint he inadvertently ends up freeing the gods he locked up in the first place...

[Sepewrath]

I don't think Fen'Harel or the bulk of these gods are real.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If the Old Gods are different from the Forgotten Ones, I think Fen'Harel being the mastermind behind the Blights makes sense if he believed the darkspawn would be unable to destroy the rest of the inhabitants of Thedas completely. Plus it would have the benefit of destroying the Old Gods, (who might be another group of rivals) if he knew the humans, dwarves and elves would fight back hard enough. Since each Blight has been incredibly destructive, but even the First Blight was a still long off from wiping out every living thing in the entire world, it's not inconceivable that Fen'Harel had indeed gambled on humanity surviving.

[whykikyouwhy]

I dunno...if Fen'Harel, as the persona that we are somewhat famliar with, does exist, I don't think he would use the Blight. Granted, I have a slew of theories about the Blight, the Rotten Twinkie City, etc etc and so forth (but I hesitate to post them here because I have been literally leaving bits and pieces of them like graffiti all over the forums). Basically, I think the Blight/the taint is residual vileness from creation, or the shadow that is the antithesis of the light in the world. Or maybe it's antimatter. So many possibilities.

Fen'Harel seems like someone who will be still around and present in the world of man. Moving things along. Some people have speculated that Flemeth is Fen'Harel (but I don't think so). It could just be that all of the gods are wrapped up in the Maker!piñata - they've lost the ability to be individual entities and have merged, all Voltron-like, into one being, one symbol.

Maybe when we boil everything all away, there will have been no divine intervention. All of the taint will be due to man. It wil be like the Tower of Babel and Atlantis combined. Hubris in action bringing about doom (although hubris against an ideal, not any actual master in the heavens).

[IanPolaris]

Here is my guess. I think there is enough circumstantial similiarity to conclude that Fen'heral might indeed be the "maker". Remember that Andraste's Cult arose after the blight and that seems to be caused by Dumat. So the trickster (who should be very good at lying to a gullible mortal woman...not an elf though....that would be too risky), convinces her she is the "maker" and gets her to take down the biggest threat to the nice neat world that Fen'Harel has built for himself, namely Ancient Tevinter while causing a lot of chaos in the process. Sounds like the Trickster to me.

-Polaris

[whykikyouwhy]

IanPolaris wrote...

Here is my guess. I think there is enough circumstantial similiarity to conclude that Fen'heral might indeed be the "maker". Remember that Andraste's Cult arose after the blight and that seems to be caused by Dumat. So the trickster (who should be very good at lying to a gullible mortal woman...not an elf though....that would be too risky), convinces her she is the "maker" and gets her to take down the biggest threat to the nice neat world that Fen'Harel has built for himself, namely Ancient Tevinter while causing a lot of chaos in the process. Sounds like the Trickster to me.

-Polaris

I didn't get the impression that Andraste thought she was the Maker. Rather, she acted as the Maker's spiritual wife. Whether or not she actually thought this, or if it was a characteristic attributed to her after her demise is up in the air.

So sure, it could have been Dumat, or Fen'Harel, whispering words of glory and vengeance to her, coaxing her to lead a rebellion, or she just may have been ambitious and had a special purpose. What would be a different twist would be that the post-Andraste-death rise of the Chantry was all Fen'Harel's doing. That he spun the propaganda of the Chant. That he coerced the people closed to Andraste to find a faith that wasn't really there.

[IanPolaris]

Clarification. I don't think that Fen'Harel convinced Andraste that she was the maker, but rather he was....and created havoc and a good lay on the side as it were (for even more chaos and havok since Andraste cheated on her husband). Not what you'd find in the chant of light exactly though.

-Polaris

[whykikyouwhy]

IanPolaris wrote...

Clarification. I don't think that Fen'Harel convinced Andraste that she was the maker, but rather he was....and created havoc and a good lay on the side as it were (for even more chaos and havok since Andraste cheated on her husband). Not what you'd find in the chant of light exactly though.

-Polaris

Oh. Well, that changes my theory completely.


Actually, not really.

[Reznore57]

Well The maker told Andraste that The Imperium doomed Thedas because of their Greed.
The Imperium who follows an Old gold and were tricked to enter the Non Golden City to look for the "Light " (Usually you look for the light when in darkness , not to be more poweful).
So the Maker lead Andraste to defeat the old god human army , you know and forget to tell her anything about how to defeat the taint/Blight.
And make her sing the chant of light , the thing the magister and Darkspawn are desperate to find.
Except this chant of light doesn't seem to unlighten anything and leave Thedas again in the dark.

I don't know but it seems the mortal are just tools ,the elven tells the gods were at war , and Fen'harel tricked them .Maybe he did it for a good reason to protect the mortals from the god's lunacy.

[Dave2380]

Fen'Harel as a god seems to fall into the Coyote archetype, possibly even Loki, causing Chaos and destruction just for the sake of it and stirring things up.

Why would he spark a rebellion using Andraste? Because rebellions and war lead to chaos and discord. Not only did Andraste and her followers march on Tevinter, they liberated the elves from their slavery, which messed with the Tevinter infrastructure.

Most mischief gods are only out to sow chaos and devastation. Also you have to remember that the Chantry like any other religion is revisionist, yes they're all pro wisdom and keeping the peace now, but where was that attitude when they led an exalted march on the Elves who followed Andraste and helped weaken the Imperium. Yes Andraste was anti slavery but how much of the Chant of Light can you actually credit to her?

Yes her revolution was positive at the time, but it stemmed from war and discord and led to the formation of the Circle and the templars, which has been an ongoing source of conflict and chaos for the last milennium, how many Templars have squeezed the mages to the point where they become Maleficar? Even with all the good that the Chantry does there's still that mess simmering away in the background.

As for Fen'Harel's current whereabouts or actions, well Thedas is a deeply troubled place. I don't think there's any shortage of mischief you could blame him for. If he could influence Andraste then who's to say he didn't exacerbate Zathrian's rage at the humans who killed his son and raped his daughter? Or that he's whispering promises of power into the dreams of mages when they sleep. Stirring up any kind of trouble is just what mischief gods like Fen'Harel do.

Who's to say that he didn't push Loghain over the edge or Meredith?

As for Fen'Harel's complicity in the taint resulting in the extinction of all life, well you're assuming he actually cares about people living, or needs people to worship him. And we're neglecting one key thing here, Theadas is only one continent, we know the Qunari came from across the ocean, which strongly suggests there's at least one more continent out there. And it wouldn't be the first time a god screwed up big time, Ragnarok springs to mind as a perfect example.

Unleashing the Blights on the world is just gravy really, if the old gods were the forgotten ones then not only does Fen'Harel get to watch the chaos and war unfold, he also gets to see some of the gods he tricked not only corrupted and warped but eventually destroyed.

I don't think Flemeth is Fen'Harel, the Dalish would probably run screaming into the ocean and drown themselves just to get away from her if she was, that being said she might know about him and be allied or opposed to him. I haven't figured her out yet, mostly because she makes my brain ache.

I actually quite like Reznore57's idea that Fen'Harel might have evicted the othe gods because they're idiots who wouldn't stop fighting and might end up destroying the world and depriving him of his favourite toy, but so far it's all still speculation and theory.

No one is right or wrong until the devs finally come out and say this is real, this happened.

Modifié par Dave2380, 19 août 2011 - 03:51 .