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[Thompson family]

havoc373 and I were having a discussion on a different topic and havoc offered up the theory that Cerberus will attack Liara at the SB base.

At which point, I thought "Whoa" as things started to click. I'm not saying I'm betting on this, just that it's worth considering:

1. TIM knows where the Shadow Broker base is. EDI told him. EDI tells him everything, certainlly before EDI's unshackling and probably even afterward. (Edited P.S., considering several good replies) Even after EDI's unshackled, we know TIM has monitoring devices aboard. It would probably take Mordin and Tali a month in a dockyard to "clean" the ship.

2. The Shadow Broker is a dangerous, powerful rival -- whomever he or she is. This will be the first and best chance for TIM to wipe out a Shadow Broker and destroy the base -- or better yet, take it over and BE the Shadow Broker. Taking this irresistable target would be worth incurring Shep's hatred, especially since the Normandy's seized and Shep's on trial anyway, and his/her usefulness as a "bloody icon" is seriously reduced by the "Arrival" affair.

3. Liara's clearly not hanging around the base in ME3, feeding useful intel to Shep from relative safety. She's back with Shep in everything we've seen.

4. "Lair of the SB" is locked in. Liara can't die. She will be the SB. EDI will know where she is. Therefore, so will TIM. It's clearly vital to the story. Also, I think its safe to say that TIM gave Shep the LotSB info because he wanted the SB dead, not replaced by anybody else but him, and because he knew T'Soni had the rest of the puzzle pieces needed to find the base.

EDITED REVISION: Many forum members say that's just not enough of a reason. OK. How about this variation --

Remember that in LotSB, after the boss battle, Liara finds extensive data on the Protheans and proof that the Reapers exist and says so, and that the Shadow Broker knew about the Reapers and wanted to figure out a way to escape the oncoming doom.

Remember, also, that Casey Hudson et. al. have told us that we don't know how we're going to beat the
Reapers and will have to figure out a way. We won't even have all the clues at the start.

It would not surprise me one bit if LIara is the key, or the one who can find the key, to beating the Reapers. Shep never would have even known what Ilos was in ME1, much less where it was, were it not for Liara. -- and that's when she was just a nerdy little history nut.

So if TIM wants to kill her, and not just for the SB network -- well, as Mordin would say, "Implications unpleasant."

-- OR --

All that info on the Reapers is what TIM's really after, especially after the invasion starts, and he doesn't want to share it. THAT would be something Shep would fight to get whether he/she gives a rip about Liara T'Soni or not.

Modifié par Thompson family, 19 août 2011 - 04:11 .

[Clonedzero]

i thought canonically the shadowbroker mission takes place after the suicide mission? and the reason you can do it before is cus well, video game.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

It does make sense.


TIM chasing you for the CB is kind of stupid,especially cause the renegade decision is to keep it.


I approve of this thread.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 18 août 2011 - 11:20 .

[Thompson family]

Clonedzero wrote...

i thought canonically the shadowbroker mission takes place after the suicide mission? and the reason you can do it before is cus well, video game.

Even if that so, the "quantum intanglement" communicator is still aboard along with plenty of electronic bugs. It would take a sweep in drydock to clean the ship, I'll bet.

[Elstraim]

Given that LotSB happens after EDI's unshackled, why would she continue to feed info to TIM?

[Kasai666]

I approve. This theory makes a ton of sense. Congrats, you get five stars.

[Someone With Mass]

Nah, it has to be more than that. If Liara is the single reason why I have to endure the clown squad throughout a good portion of the game, they can have her.

There's no certainty that Shepard will bring Liara along on every mission either.

Good theory, though.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 18 août 2011 - 11:23 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Arcian wrote...

Indoctrination.

Somemenjustwanttowatchtheworldburn.jpg

What the hell is in your avatar?


and who is indoctrinated?

[Clonedzero]

Thompson family wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

i thought canonically the shadowbroker mission takes place after the suicide mission? and the reason you can do it before is cus well, video game.

Even if that so, the "quantum intanglement" communicator is still aboard along with plenty of electronic bugs. It would take a sweep in drydock to clean the ship, I'll bet.

but EDI is in full control of the ship after being unshackled, couldnt she just turn those all off? as they'd have to be tied to the ships other systems somehow giving her access

[Kasai666]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Indoctrination.

Somemenjustwanttowatchtheworldburn.jpg

What the hell is in your avatar?


and who is indoctrinated?

Its a My Little Pony thing. I despise all ponies, but it looks pretty decent. 

[havoc373]

the reason the illusive man knows is because in the mission complete text of LOTSB it is mentioned that cerberus needs to monitor the relation between liara and shepard as she is the new shadowbroker.

wether or not EDi is unshackled doesnt matter... he knows.
besdies why would EDI be the only one who cna tell the illusive man? Miranda is just as likely a candidate.

also it is cerberus who gave liara the intel that led to the shadow brokers base. i find it rather unlikely that cerberus wasent able to decode it while a shifty looking salarian on illium could. given the illusive mans reputation.

Modifié par havoc373, 18 août 2011 - 11:36 .

[Thompson family]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Nah, it has to be more than that. If Liara is the single reason why I have to endure the clown squad throughout a good portion of the game, they can have her.

True,  there could be plenty of reasons. Suppose there are. Then TIM would be a fool to leave a powerful ally of Shep's like the Shadow Broker alone, wouldn't he?

There's no certainty that Shepard will bring Liara along on every mission either.

Quite right, which is why I included the phrase "in everything we've seen."

IOnlySignIn wrote ...
Liara doesn't hate Cerberus. A Renegade Shepard could probably persuade Liara to work with TIM (again).

And TIM said "Diplomacy is great when it works."

And TIM doesn't hate Liara. He just wants what Liara has and has to kill her to get it. No hard feelings.

Seriously, TIM doesn't owe Liara any loyalty and it wouldn't matter if he did.

Modifié par Thompson family, 19 août 2011 - 12:01 .

[sael_feman]

If TIM attacks Liara (who in game is my love interest) I castrate him.

Grrrrrr (Klingon growl)


S'F'

[khordlambert]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Indoctrination.

Somemenjustwanttowatchtheworldburn.jpg

What the hell is in your avatar?


and who is indoctrinated?

I think that Avatar is a combination of one of the new My Little Ponies and Garrus.

As for who is Indoctrinated, TIM most likely is. In Renegade endings you keep the base. The Base that was building Reapers. This is including whatever allows them their indoctrination fields. TIM could get a bit of indoctrination tech sent to him as a "present" by a "loyal employee". Or TIM himself won't be able to resist looking at his biggest prize yet. Or he attempts to use the indoctrintion tech for his own purposes hoping he can control it. No shortage of ways here.

[Bluko]

I initially thought Cerberus was an enemy in ME3 because they attacked Liara and T.I.M. set himself up as the Shadowbroker. Would make a lot more sense...

Even if you're heartless Renegade that's kind of dick move by T.I.M. trying to assassinate one of your former squadmates. I still hope this is going to be somewhat the case in ME3 as it seems dumb for Liara to just tag along when she should be providing you information as the Shadow Broker.

It's a lot of better then hurr durr T.I.M. playing with the Collector Base stuff and getting Cerberus indoctrinated.

[Thompson family]

Bluko wrote...

I initially thought Cerberus was an enemy in ME3 because they attacked Liara and T.I.M. set himself up as the Shadowbroker. Would make a lot more sense...

I'd be happy to link or bump a thread of yours if you posted this earlier, Bluko. Just give the word.

Modifié par Thompson family, 19 août 2011 - 12:15 .

[Jestina]

Asari commandos plus Shepard equals IM is screwed and dead.

[lovgreno]

I think TIMmy is too smart to attack the Shadow Broker as he have little to gain and much to lose by doing so. But there is always the possible indoctrination factor of course.

[Bluko]

Thompson family wrote...

Bluko wrote...

I initially thought Cerberus was an enemy in ME3 because they attacked Liara and T.I.M. set himself up as the Shadowbroker. Would make a lot more sense...

I'd be happy to link or bump a thread of yours if you posted this earlier, Bluko. Just give the word.

I've never made a thread about the Shadowbroker thing, just commented in many threads that this might happen in ME3. There were others who suggested such shortly after LotSB simply due to the fact the Cerberus pretty much gives you the location.

[Thompson family]

Jestina wrote...

Asari commandos plus Shepard equals IM is screwed and dead.

Quite.

lovgreno wrote...

I think TIMmy is too smart to attack the
Shadow Broker as he have little to gain and much to lose by doing so.

Can't agree, lovgreno. "Information is my weapon, Shepard." The SB network is an arsenal.

[TheOptimist]

While I agree that this would explain hostility between TIM and Shepard, it doesn't really explain why TIM's expending the extensive amount of resources we've seen to kill Shepard.  The Reapers are by far the bigger threat, and TIM could pretty much count on the fact that Shepard's gonna deal with the Reapers before he deals with TIM.  For that matter, one would think that would be TIM's approach too, considering that if the Reapers win, personal grudges aren't going to matter.

Irrespective of that, if TIM ****s with Liara, he's a dead dog in my Shepard's eyes.