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[Lotion Soronarr]

Barquiel wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TIM attacks Liara...ooohhkayyyy.... Why should my Shep care again?

Because unlike Cerberus, Liara wants to defeat the reapers and uses the SB resources to help Shepard?

Wait..I'm confuised..since when Cerberus doesn't want to defeat the repaers?

[Barquiel]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TIM attacks Liara...ooohhkayyyy.... Why should my Shep care again?

Because unlike Cerberus, Liara wants to defeat the reapers and uses the SB resources to help Shepard?

Wait..I'm confuised..since when Cerberus doesn't want to defeat the repaers?

Since they started to defend reapers against Shepard?

[Someone With Mass]

Barquiel wrote...

Since they started to defend reapers against Shepard?

I think those guys are indoctrinated.

[Thompson family]

mineralica wrote...

Me? Worship TIM? Momma mia, I'm a paragon player who destroyed Collectors base 21 time of 23 playthroughs.

The reason for "give SB network to TIM" is the same as for "work for Cerberus in ME2" - Shepard may don't want it, but for bigger good you must cooperate with lesser evil. I personally can't stand TIM and his methods, but if he's that powerful that can pull from somewhere 40% of enemies in game, I can forget about this hate and will cooperate.

I agree in principle -- I got a lot of objections when I posted that my Shep would work with Balak the terrorist if he had a way to stop the Reapers -- but I think it's pretty clear by now that Cerberus will be the enemy no matter what Shep does.

UPDATE: Reports froom GameCom say that BW confirmed in this morning's Q&A that you cannot, repeat, cannot ally with Cerberus in ME3.

Shadow broker network? It isn't Collectors base, it won't indoctrinate Cerberus personnel or Cerberus can't lead some sick experiments using it. Well, at least not directly - and what bad he can do using SB network he already can do using own spy network. Maybe with bigger effort, but still.

Still make an enemy stronger.

So I'm rather in peace with giving TIM this network if it will be the price for him and all Cerberus power allying Shepard [etc.]

As noted, it does not appear that this will be an option.

==========

I thnk "Cerberus is indoctrinated" would be bigger plot laziness than Mary Sue T'Soni.

I may have to read "Mass Effect: Retribution" after all: Some Cerberus folks are indoctrinated — but by whom? I wonder if TIM hasn't mastered that trick. See HomelessGal's links above.

Modifié par Thompson family, 19 août 2011 - 05:20 .

[Thompson family]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lira AGAIN being the key to defeating the Repaers?

No. Please no.

No problem for me, but you have a lot of good company, Lotion Soronnar. The idea grates a lot of folks.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Thompson family wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lira AGAIN being the key to defeating the Repaers?

No. Please no.

No problem for me, but you have a lot of good company, Lotion Soronnar. The idea grates a lot of folks.

If it was only that Thompsons...if it was only that.

The more I read about ME3 the more dissapointed I become.

This is gonna be worse than DA2 for me I fear.

[jojon2se]

From what the presenters are saying, during demos (which will, of course, always be oversimplified and general enough not to spoil and sometimes even deceptive for that same reason), it is no more complicated than that TIM does not want Shepard to unite the galactic factions, even with the greater threat, which could do with being met with some: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Divide and conquer. (Heck, he could even see it in the way that the reapers are doing some of his dirty work for him.)

[Thompson family]

jojon2se wrote...

From what the presenters are saying ... it is no more complicated than that TIM does not want Shepard to unite the galactic factions, even with the greater threat, which could do with being met with some: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Divide and conquer. (Heck, he could even see it in the way that the reapers are doing some of his dirty work for him.)

Ah. as per  Cerberus Motivations by Detailed Subset , which speculats that TIM wants to "depopulate" the Galaxy and utterly betray the Reapers, breaking the cycle and leaving humans completely in control.
 

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


If it was only that Thompsons...if it was only that.

The more I read about ME3 the more dissapointed I become.

I won't be there, but apparently you'll have plenty of company there too.

Modifié par Thompson family, 19 août 2011 - 06:58 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

I called this theory months ago, but your perspective is much more eloquent, Thompson. Well done!

EDIT: It would also explain why Liara joins back with Shepard.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 19 août 2011 - 07:04 .

[Thompson family]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

I called this theory months ago, but your perspective is much more eloquent, Thompson. Well done!

Thanks, Fiery Phonix. Give me a link and I'll be glad to edit the OP.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Thompson family wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

I called this theory months ago, but your perspective is much more eloquent, Thompson. Well done!

Thanks, Fiery Phonix. Give me a link and I'll be glad to edit the OP.

I never actually made a thread on it, though. Just brought it up in some threads. 

[KingDan97]

Quote from the E3 demo:
"[Cerberus] is indoctrinated. They are capable of anything."

There's the explaination, as to how, the "whispering" TIM hears could easily be dependent on both proximity and activity. Explaining why Cerberus was so wonky in ME1(1 Reaper active in the galaxy which was dormant before, explaining why he wasn't aways so out of whack after the incident that gave him his eyes) as well as why TIM was more lucid in ME2(No active reapers within the galaxy). By ME3 the entire galaxy is full of active reapers, so logically TIM would be actively controlled by them.

It could also give what is IMO a stronger explanation explain as to why TIM decided that sending Shep into the Collector ship would be a good idea, since there were still active reapers the indoctrination effect was still there, but as a small hum in the back of his head.

EDIT: In addition to that, Cerberus's deal with Aria to use Omega as a trade port goes south in the first 3 pages of the new comic, which as you'll see if you look them up, is because a Cerberus transport was sheltering Reaper servants.

Modifié par KingDan97, 19 août 2011 - 07:19 .

[Seeker Sparrow]

I think this is a fair point to observe, I definitely see TIM planning the ultimate coup d'etat on the galaxy. It just fits his character.

As well as Liara's new-found knowledge since becoming Shadow Broker I'd imagine TIM also has some information of his own kept safely hidden in that brain of his, and it's not like Cerberus haven't been indoctrinated before (i.e. the Derelict Reaper).

[TheOptimist]

Thompson family wrote...

I simply cannot grasp this deference to TIM.

We know for a fact he's going to be a major enemy to Shep — Renegade or Paragon. I don't buy for a minute that somebody took control of Cerberus from him. WHATEVER his motivation is, that will happen. Yet so many people say this: if he wants the SB network — which would help him stay one step at least ahead of Shep — let him.

When pressed on the point, the argument turns to "He's indocrtrinated" — which may be true, but a pretty guilt-free excuse for his behavior. He's off the hook, not responsible for his actions.

This isn't loyalty. This is worship.

To quote Robert Kennedy, "20% of people are against everything all the time."  That apparently includes the idea that TIM be treated as the egomaniacal manipulator he is, and so instead he's transformed into some kind of tragic anti-hero, much like some people do with Saren.

[KingDan97]

TheOptimist wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

I simply cannot grasp this deference to TIM.

We know for a fact he's going to be a major enemy to Shep — Renegade or Paragon. I don't buy for a minute that somebody took control of Cerberus from him. WHATEVER his motivation is, that will happen. Yet so many people say this: if he wants the SB network — which would help him stay one step at least ahead of Shep — let him.

When pressed on the point, the argument turns to "He's indocrtrinated" — which may be true, but a pretty guilt-free excuse for his behavior. He's off the hook, not responsible for his actions.

This isn't loyalty. This is worship.

To quote Robert Kennedy, "20% of people are against everything all the time."  That apparently includes the idea that TIM be treated as the egomaniacal manipulator he is, and so instead he's transformed into some kind of tragic anti-hero, much like some people do with Saren.

I'm not necessarily saying he's an angel or something. The only thing the reapers can do with a soley mental connection is influence the fears of those under their control, not change fundamental aspects of their personalities.

[Thompson family]

Has anybody who's seen the Q&A video that brings up the unbreachable gulf between Cerberus and Shep give us a deeper description? I'm at work and the "Bioware Pulse" videos have always had great trouble loading here.

Modifié par Thompson family, 19 août 2011 - 07:35 .

[jojon2se]

HomelessGal wrote...

jojon2se wrote...
From what the presenters are saying, during demos (which will, of course, always be oversimplified and general enough not to spoil and sometimes even deceptive for that same reason), it is no more complicated than that TIM does not want Shepard to unite the galactic factions, even with the greater threat, which could do with being met with some: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Divide and conquer. (Heck, he could even see it in the way that the reapers are doing some of his dirty work for him.)

Even though ME2 mission ending screens are full of comments from TIM on how various alien species are vital against the Reapers?

I don't want to mini-hijack Thompson's thread, but I'll respond to this one and then crawl back under my little rock.

I'm going to have to admit I never really paid any attention to TIM's debriefing summaries, so I can't really comment on that (how come we are privy to them, anyway? )and I am only reporting what we can hear David and Jesse (I think it was them?) saying in the videos and extrapolating a little bit from that.

Either way; depending on how it is worded, TIM desiring to "use" the other species against the reapers, may not necessarily contradict a parallel desire to to keep them at odds with eachother.
I'm sure you have once or twice sat out part of a battle between "non compatible" enemies in a game, to step in when their numbers and health are sufficiently reduced.

[JGDD]

Thompson family wrote...

Has anybody who's seen the Q&A video that brings up the unbreachable gulf between Cerberus and Shep give us a deeper description?

There's nothing beyond that. They are enemies is all it amounts to at this point.

[Terastar]

Was them husk things Turian in the comic book? If so that would make since that TIM would want to make milk shake out of them in the collectors base and have them return back to their home world and kill all the others. He does hold a grudge and still seeks revenge.

[twisty77]

Elstraim wrote...

Given that LotSB happens after EDI's unshackled, why would she continue to feed info to TIM?

Not necessarily. You're given the SB info right after your first visit to Ilium.

[King Minos]

Is it confirmed that Cerberus attacks the shadow broker base?

[JGDD]

King Minos wrote...

Is it confirmed that Cerberus attacks the shadow broker base?

Nope.  A lot of meta-gaming leans that way though.

[Thargorichiban]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Has anybody who's seen the Q&A video that brings up the unbreachable gulf between Cerberus and Shep give us a deeper description?

There's nothing beyond that. They are enemies is all it amounts to at this point.

All he says in the video is that if you really want to help Cerberus all you have to do is lay down and let them kill you. Seemed pretty definitive from him that they want Shepard dead.

Link to the Q&A: http://www.livestrea...medium=ui-thumb

Modifié par Thargorichiban, 19 août 2011 - 08:10 .