213 réponses à ce sujet

[JGDD]

Thargorichiban wrote...

All he says in the video is that if you really want to help Cerberus all you have to do is lay down and let them kill you. Seemed pretty definitive from him that they want Shepard dead.

You're right. Should have just said they're enemies and left it at that. Didn't mean to imply there was something more.

[karatemanchan37]

We know from the demo that Cerberus is indoctrinated from the Illusive man. Judging from the quote a few pages back and the FACT that the main threat and enemy is the Reapers, why couldn't Cerberus be the enemy for like the first part of the game? As in, in order to win the war and take back earth, you have to break the TIM's indoctrination before taking on Harbinger himself?

[darkangelvxvx]

 

Thompson family wrote...
Upon reflection, there are at least a few members of Sheps circle who could be targets for TIM besides Liara. Liara is the only one who can’t die in any playthrough, but the issues raised in other recruitment and loyalty missions are still there, presumably..

As several post authors have pointed out, personal scores shouldn’t matter when the Reapers are invading, but there as some key players here who could hold the balance on things that matter.

1. We already know Cerberus will try to kill MORDIN (or his successor) and a Krogan who’s very important to WREX (or his successor); so important that Wrex (whomever) himself will fly into a combat zone to help rescue her.
Liara is my Shep’s LI. If TIM tries to kill her, Shep will get revenge -- but if he kills Wrex, my Shep’s going to be mad as h***.

2. TALI’s data from Halestrom and the information on her father’s experiments. Tali was willing to go into exile to keep those experiments becoming public. I can see TIM and Adm. Xen cooperating on this one, and Tali trying to stop them. So, Renegades, you might get the chance to really abuse Tali again, assuming she survived.
This also has implications for LEGION if they’re alive, since Cerberus wants to control Geth. We see that in Overlord, too.

3. KASUMI, if she didn’t destroy the Greybox, will have information very embarrassing to the Alliance. TIM will either want that or want it destroyed.

4. MIRANDA, on the Paragon path, resigns from Cerberus. She was as close to a trusted lieutenant as TIM ever had, and TIM can get to her through her sister. If she’s dead, well, that’s that.

Here's a few more tidbits that could be worth pondering:

It's very possible that TIM learned how to resist indoctrination via the same secreted method that Saren barks about in the first game, how he, "did what they wanted and they allowed him to have free will."

Listening to how TIM talks the way he talks, referencing humanity as, "they."  or "them,"  when referencing humanity as a whole.  But when referencing Cerberus, refers to it as "we,"  and "the galaxy's best hope for survival,"  which is similar to what Saren believed the Reapers to be.  

EDI herself being, well I guess you could say, "part reaper," which she mentions when stressing a topic about the Geth with Legion and she mentions that some of Soverign went into making her.  This, in theory could also explain a bit about the facial scaring of the Renegade Shep, as he himself may have been rebuilt with some of the same components.  This could also explain why he's able to resist the reaper artifact.  This would also help to explain about why TIM brought shep back, and wanted him, "exactly how he was before," and wouldn't allow for neural control implants.  It's possible that TIM was supposed to be a moderator between Shep and the Reapers

Now... if you didn't sweep the Heretics on Legions mission back into the fold, this may actually have been a beneficial move towards the geth in the future.  Meaning that the "destroyed" geth may be able to rebuild, as "isolated programs will take longer to acess the primary hub," and "we comunicate at faster than light," so they may've been able to warn of infected hubs.  Which I supposed would work for either side.

This may prove valuable going forward, as Rael's research, as well as Project Overlord,  were both methods attempting to control the Geth, and they may takeover the heretics.  

Probably another good thing done via a Renegade path would be Morinth herself.  As she herself can dominate individuals, which may prove invaluable against the reaper threat, and may lead to a method of breaking their control, but this is mostly conjecture.

Mordin himself may have a method to fight indoctrination, as he created a seeker counter-measure.

Garrus was healed on a cerberus vessel, who knows what they did to him.

The Baterian's would probably give their left arm after what I did to them... But turn about is fair play!  I just... did it on a larger scale. (reference to ME1 and ME2 DLC)


...  Now...... to take an opposite direction; during Liara's Hardening, she was in contact with Cerberus a great deal.  They used this to track the SB, and then there's a possibility that she herself has become indoctrinated, or "partially."  Even if you've previously romanced her it takes a good ammount of effort to get her interested in you again,  which shows that she's hiding something.  Now, if she is indoctrinated this could be a strong possible reason why she's been after the Shadow Broker, and be using Feron as a cover, which would be a significant boon for Cerberus as they provided the intel on where to find him.

Basically Liara being a double-agent,  similar to Miranda was, but less open about it.

Her whole helping shep could actually be a cover so the reapers could infact get even closer, maybe gather genetic material from him to do who knows what.  Which would also explain after getting the SB base, why she doesn't stay with you, as maybe an attempt to fight off the indoctrination.

[Arppis]

Elstraim wrote...

Given that LotSB happens after EDI's unshackled, why would she continue to feed info to TIM?

I did it before that just today.

[darkangelvxvx]

karatemanchan37 wrote...


...you have to break the TIM's indoctrination before taking on Harbinger himself?

What if TIM is the primary agent of Harbinger, like Saren was for Nazara?  Moreover, what if TIM himself is a reaper?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

darkangelvxvx wrote...

karatemanchan37 wrote...


...you have to break the TIM's indoctrination before taking on Harbinger himself?

What if TIM is the primary agent of Harbinger, like Saren was for Nazara?  Moreover, what if TIM himself is a reaper?

If TIM is a reaper there will be a lot of TIM fanboys Seboist who will just die,and there will be many thousands of threads about it.

Would be pretty wicked though,Harby could get tons of knowledge,while being largely ignored.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 19 août 2011 - 08:59 .

[marshalleck]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

darkangelvxvx wrote...

karatemanchan37 wrote...


...you have to break the TIM's indoctrination before taking on Harbinger himself?

What if TIM is the primary agent of Harbinger, like Saren was for Nazara?  Moreover, what if TIM himself is a reaper?

If TIM is a reaper there will be a lot of TIM fanboys Seboist who will just die,and there will be many thousands of threads about it.

If that happens I will probably commit suicide

You've been warned Bioware

[darkangelvxvx]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

darkangelvxvx wrote...

karatemanchan37 wrote...


...you have to break the TIM's indoctrination before taking on Harbinger himself?

What if TIM is the primary agent of Harbinger, like Saren was for Nazara?  Moreover, what if TIM himself is a reaper?

If TIM is a reaper there will be a lot of TIM fanboys Seboist who will just die,and there will be many thousands of threads about it.

"its all there, buried in the data."


o.o  Grunt as a reaper!

No.. wait!   *runs around and starts accusing everyone of being a reaper*

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

@Marshall

Yeah,if he turns out to be Harbys agent and you have to kill him,there would be many people just sitting there getting the game over screen cause they can't do it.

[karatemanchan37]

marshalleck wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

darkangelvxvx wrote...

karatemanchan37 wrote...


...you have to break the TIM's indoctrination before taking on Harbinger himself?

What if TIM is the primary agent of Harbinger, like Saren was for Nazara?  Moreover, what if TIM himself is a reaper?

If TIM is a reaper there will be a lot of TIM fanboys Seboist who will just die,and there will be many thousands of threads about it.

If that happens I will probably commit suicide

You've been warned Bioware

Hmm...what if TIM himself was a double agent?

[darkangelvxvx]

He did spend a larger portion of like a week or two exposed to the reaper artifact. Anything's possible

[darkangelvxvx]

karatemanchan37 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

darkangelvxvx wrote...

karatemanchan37 wrote...


...you have to break the TIM's indoctrination before taking on Harbinger himself?

What if TIM is the primary agent of Harbinger, like Saren was for Nazara?  Moreover, what if TIM himself is a reaper?

If TIM is a reaper there will be a lot of TIM fanboys Seboist who will just die,and there will be many thousands of threads about it.

If that happens I will probably commit suicide

You've been warned Bioware

Hmm...what if TIM himself was a double agent?

What if he was, and didn't know it?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

What if TIM is a woman?

[darkangelvxvx]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

What if TIM is a woman?

Miranda?  



Just sayin'  that Saren was Indoctrinated and didn't realize it.

Modifié par darkangelvxvx, 19 août 2011 - 09:35 .

[Thompson family]

Just to be clear for those who haven't heard the Q&A, BW's Mike Gamble said Cerberus is "Hell bent" on killing Shep and that the only way a pro-Cerberus player can ally with Cerberus is to get Shep killed in-game and not restart.

Ouch.

Modifié par Thompson family, 19 août 2011 - 10:01 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Thompson family wrote...

Just to be clear for those who haven't heard the Q&A, BW's Mike Gamble said Cerberus is "Hell bent" on killing Shep and that the only way a pro-Cerberus player can ally with Cerberus is to get Shep killed in-game and not restart.

Ouch.

BAHAHAHAHA,priceless,imagine the threads if you have to put TIM down. Tragic. Hopefully they offer a reasonable explanation for fans of Cerberus.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 19 août 2011 - 10:09 .

[Thompson family]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...


BAHAHAHAHA,priceless,imagine the threads if you have to put TIM down. Tragic. Hopefully they offer a reasonable explanation for fans of Cerberus.

I win. I keep a better straight face than Humanoid_Typhoon.

[darkangelvxvx]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Just to be clear for those who haven't heard the Q&A, BW's Mike Gamble said Cerberus is "Hell bent" on killing Shep and that the only way a pro-Cerberus player can ally with Cerberus is to get Shep killed in-game and not restart.

Ouch.

BAHAHAHAHA,priceless,imagine the threads if you have to put TIM down. Tragic. Hopefully they offer a reasonable explanation for fans of Cerberus.

During the demo its stated that they're, "indoctrinated, they're capable of anything."

think thats pretty self explanitory

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

@Dark I said reasonable,there is alot of people who would be upset if it was "all of Cerberus got indoctrinated", I guess even that would work,but it would have to have a good amount of back story.

[JGDD]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

@Dark I said reasonable,there is alot of people who would be upset if it was "all of Cerberus got indoctrinated", I guess even that would work,but it would have to have a good amount of back story.

To some extent they do have back story for this. Cerberus, by most accounts, probably has the greatest amount of Reaper tech which leads to greater exposure.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Thompson family wrote...

jojon2se wrote...

From what the presenters are saying ... it is no more complicated than that TIM does not want Shepard to unite the galactic factions, even with the greater threat, which could do with being met with some: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Divide and conquer. (Heck, he could even see it in the way that the reapers are doing some of his dirty work for him.)

Ah. as per  Cerberus Motivations by Detailed Subset , which speculats that TIM wants to "depopulate" the Galaxy and utterly betray the Reapers, breaking the cycle and leaving humans completely in control.

.. That..makes no sense.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 19 août 2011 - 10:41 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Thompson family wrote...

havoc373 and I were having a discussion on a different topic and havoc offered up the theory that Cerberus will attack Liara at the SB base.

At which point, I thought "Whoa" as things started to click. I'm not saying I'm betting on this, just that it's worth considering:

1. TIM knows where the Shadow Broker base is. EDI told him. EDI tells him everything, certainlly before EDI's unshackling and probably even afterward. (Edited P.S., considering several good replies) Even after EDI's unshackled, we know TIM has monitoring devices aboard. It would probably take Mordin and Tali a month in a dockyard to "clean" the ship.

2. The Shadow Broker is a dangerous, powerful rival -- whomever he or she is. This will be the first and best chance for TIM to wipe out a Shadow Broker and destroy the base -- or better yet, take it over and BE the Shadow Broker. Taking this irresistable target would be worth incurring Shep's hatred, especially since the Normandy's seized and Shep's on trial anyway, and his/her usefulness as a "bloody icon" is seriously reduced by the "Arrival" affair.

3. Liara's clearly not hanging around the base in ME3, feeding useful intel to Shep from relative safety. She's back with Shep in everything we've seen.

4. "Lair of the SB" is locked in. Liara can't die. She will be the SB. EDI will know where she is. Therefore, so will TIM. It's clearly vital to the story. Also, I think its safe to say that TIM gave Shep the LotSB info because he wanted the SB dead, not replaced by anybody else but him, and because he knew T'Soni had the rest of the puzzle pieces needed to find the base.

EDITED REVISION: Many forum members say that's just not enough of a reason. OK. How about this variation --

Remember that in LotSB, after the boss battle, Liara finds extensive data on the Protheans and proof that the Reapers exist and says so, and that the Shadow Broker knew about the Reapers and wanted to figure out a way to escape the oncoming doom.

Remember, also, that Casey Hudson et. al. have told us that we don't know how we're going to beat the
Reapers and will have to figure out a way. We won't even have all the clues at the start.

It would not surprise me one bit if LIara is the key, or the one who can find the key, to beating the Reapers. Shep never would have even known what Ilos was in ME1, much less where it was, were it not for Liara. -- and that's when she was just a nerdy little history nut.

So if TIM wants to kill her, and not just for the SB network -- well, as Mordin would say, "Implications unpleasant."

-- OR --

All that info on the Reapers is what TIM's really after, especially after the invasion starts, and he doesn't want to share it. THAT would be something Shep would fight to get whether he/she gives a rip about Liara T'Soni or not.

^^^ I like this.

What have we been told? TIM is working for the Reapers, probably for the same misguided reasons as Saren.

According to Vigil, what was in the Citadel? Center of gov't PLUS all information on colonization, whatever, on every sentient race in the galaxy.

So what are the Reapers lacking? Information on all of the above.

Who has it? The Shadow Broker, aka Liara T'Soni. I would think TIM's goal would not be to destroy the SBB, but rather to take it over. Information is power, and the base contains more information and information resources than you can imagine.

What knows where the base is exactly? EDI. EDI even when unshackled is still bound by Cerberus programming. She will keep sending data to TIM. This is probably why the SA had to strip down the Normandy.

So, as soon as the SBB would come under attack by Cerberus, I would expect Liara to make copies of as much of the pertinant data as quickly as she could, and wipe the data core clean, set detonators, and escape -- this would be a real cool mission to play as Liara, but it would take place early in the game, and probably concurrent with Shepard's trial. Unfortunately, I think some Cerberus techs will be able to stop the data purge before it is finished, and there will be some data left, which may even include how TIM found about about the fertile Krogan female.

TIM would want that data to buy the freedom he'd been promised by the Reapers, and seal humanity's fate with the Reapers. Hence, aside from the Krogan female, he would want Liara for information she had copies of and any information she had in her head. This is probably why we're going to spend a lot of time fighting Cerberus mercenaries.

If you had Miranda with you when you destroyed the CB, she resigns from Cerberus.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Just to be clear for those who haven't heard the Q&A, BW's Mike Gamble said Cerberus is "Hell bent" on killing Shep and that the only way a pro-Cerberus player can ally with Cerberus is to get Shep killed in-game and not restart.

Ouch.

BAHAHAHAHA,priceless,imagine the threads if you have to put TIM down. Tragic. Hopefully they offer a reasonable explanation for fans of Cerberus.

There is none.
The only explanation I'd accept is a silver platter with the heads of the wirting staff and game deisgners.