8 réponses à ce sujet

[painofdungeoneternal]

This was asked in that other thread, and want to answer, but not derail the fact it's supposed to just be comments. 

GhostOfGod wrote...
As far as controlling the release of the source code. Is it possible that those few whom the code is released to could be made to agree to only work under "one flag" so to speak. They can call it NWN2 CPP(Community Patch Project) or something. With one person in charge. Someone who has proven themselves to be helpful and professional like one of those dunniteowl has already suggested. Seems like if that part was forced as a condition of the release of the source code then it could make things pretty simple for community updates.

For 1.23 they contracted out the ADL, and got many fixes to toolset, new script functions and other juicy things which are not even close to be properly implemented yet all from a single programmer. Just check out the nwscript.nss file for the many functions marked MP at the bottom, they were some really cool additions which even NWN1 folks drooled over.

I think they would have to pay whoever did this, soas to make it "work for hire", even if it's a dollar, even though for this sort of thing I'm sure it would be more than just a token amount. ( even though a trivial amount from the perspective of a big corporation and have it be some set amount ).

Perhaps allow them to use a NDL to allow another community member to review a portion of the source code ( ie let me look at that spell resist function already ). I think it should be assumed that skywing is able to get symbols and debug things at the least, or other skilled and interested parties whose employment prevents more involvement. All of this would of course be limited and under the control of those who own the actual code.

After this is done the publisher would have to pay to test, translate and host the patches, which i think is far more expensive. However if they had that same programmer ( or small group ) able to choose to do things a little better, well i think a community member could add that extra love -- much like the swansong 1.69 patch for NWN1 which i know they really went above and beyond to make sure everything is perfect.

I think a core demand is that this have no deadline, it's done when it's done, on a time available basis and that anyone posting a thread saying anything bad about anyone because it's not released yet be lynched by the community. This might mean it takes longer, but its far better to have the final patch be done right instead of not done at all. I remember quite often the negative threads flaming the developers for not releasing everything yesterday as being counter productive to quality coding, and we'd need to make a concerted effort to ensure those doing the work are pressured to do it right and do more, instead of pressuring them to do it yesterday.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 19 août 2011 - 01:08 .

[dunniteowl]

I think this is worth considering. This is, in fact, something closer to what I think is most probable. That said, I am going to make a proposal that lists what could be considered "possible" options of what the game and the Community would support.

Even were the code to be released, I am sure that it would be 'provisional' and only to a select few. Even if they're never going to do another thing with it, it's their code and I am sure that they would want it in as few hands as possible. As far as testing goes, I would bet that the expense could be greatly reduced by also sticking with dedicated Community Members who would test the fixes and additions to the best of their ability and more than likely, would do a much more thorough job than anyone Obsidian or Atari could ever hope to hire as a tester/player. So that would be something to consider in the proposal as well. New idea there, thanks pain.

I also posted in regard to this (not directly in response, but it relates directly to it) in the Source Code Question thread. With respect to the contract and teaming concept.

dunniteowl

[foil-]

If this was the proposal, we might want the programmers who would commit some time to sign the proposal sent ahead of time, maybe even beef it up with their CVs (or a summary of the teams credentials and experience - both non NWN and NWN related). This would allow Obs/Atari know the proposal is realistic and they don't feel they are wasting their time considering something that isn't going to fly after they put the effort in to consider it, legal, and approve it.

Modifié par foil-, 19 août 2011 - 03:37 .

[dunniteowl]

foil- That was my plan in the outset. Any sent proposal would be vetted first by interested Community Members and also signed (which is part of my referring to this effort as a petition, we would sign, digitally our names and bona fides as petitioners seeking redress in a polite and respectful manner.) I couldn't imagine sending out such a proposal without first collecting the data and opinion I am currently seeking. Neither could I send it in good conscience without it also reflecting the general demeanor and desire of the Community, so whatever is proposed (to some degree) will have to have some form of general approval by the Community as well. One cannot propose to speak for a Community without popular support, right? That's called Representation.

Me? I plan to Represent, baby.

dno

[foil-]

My first sentence above was horribly worded. Must have got distracted. I was thinking more along the lines that the people to do the work with the source code were in place so that any efforts made on the part of Atari/Obsidian to free up the source has some assurance of being used. They might be a little iffy committing resources to freeing up the code for programmers that were not already in place and had a proven track record.

Community representation being important, but not something I meant to address in my first post. I was focused more on the team who would act as consultants. Might want to talk with Ossian studios to see how they managed contracting out for Mysteries of Westgate. I believe Alan has always been fairly responsive to the community. There's also a recent post on Ossian's site with someone asking if another adventure would be possible by Ossian for NWN2

ossianstudios.com/forum/viewtopic.php

Modifié par foil-, 19 août 2011 - 07:14 .

[painofdungeoneternal]

I'd suggest talking to Grinning Fool, Zebranky, Skywing and Virusman on IRC channel, those folks have received symbols for NWNx ( which is about as close to source code as you can get ) and Grinning fool did the contract work to do the 1.23 patch ( and was able to sneak in a lot of really cool added features, and from what i understand had features aimed at 1.24 patch which sounded like they'd help things out a lot -- that lawsuit really messed things up ).

This is not really far fetched, this was already happening, goal is to get it restarted, perhaps with less man hours from obsidian and more from the community will make it more attractive ( which sounds win-win to me, since the folks who really know whats needed would be able to make sure the things they need get put in exactly how the community needs them )

[barfubaz]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

I'd suggest talking to Grinning Fool, Zebranky, Skywing and Virusman on IRC channel, those folks have received symbols for NWNx ( which is about as close to source code as you can get ) and Grinning fool did the contract work to do the 1.23 patch ( and was able to sneak in a lot of really cool added features, and from what i understand had features aimed at 1.24 patch which sounded like they'd help things out a lot -- that lawsuit really messed things up ).

This is not really far fetched, this was already happening, goal is to get it restarted, perhaps with less man hours from obsidian and more from the community will make it more attractive ( which sounds win-win to me, since the folks who really know whats needed would be able to make sure the things they need get put in exactly how the community needs them )

I think one of the harder things here would be authorization of releases. There where hoops to jump through with both Atari and Hasbro to get each patch released, including quality assurance and internationalization. Extra ones if there was any content or rules changes involved. I don't think it likely they will just allow this group to just push changes at will (would be great if I am wrong).

- Bar

[0100010]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

I'd suggest talking to Grinning Fool, Zebranky, Skywing and Virusman on IRC channel, those folks have received symbols for NWNx ( which is about as close to source code as you can get ) and Grinning fool did the contract work to do the 1.23 patch ( and was able to sneak in a lot of really cool added features, and from what i understand had features aimed at 1.24 patch which sounded like they'd help things out a lot -- that lawsuit really messed things up ).

This is not really far fetched, this was already happening, goal is to get it restarted, perhaps with less man hours from obsidian and more from the community will make it more attractive ( which sounds win-win to me, since the folks who really know whats needed would be able to make sure the things they need get put in exactly how the community needs them )

I've got them also, just not dug into them as much as the others.

[The Fred]

As I said on the other thread, if I can see anything like this happening, it's with the makers of NWN(2). Looking at what they've done with 1.23, what they did for NWN1 with 1.69 (which was really awesome - getting a "1.69 for NWN2" would be amazing), and just at the general coolness (if that's an actual thing) we sometimes see from the devs, I do get really inspired with confidence.

They have to know that if they did do something like this, we'd love them forever, too. Atari have managed to get a bit of a bad rep for things like the MoW DRM and whatnot, so if they have any say in the matter it'd do them wonders to be nice (though I'm not sure how much they care about the opinion of a small old community, especially now they've lost the license to make the games we'd be likely to buy...). Either way it's not a lot to sell the idea to them on, though they were doing patches before the lawsuit kicked off so I don't see why they don't finish the job.

Anyway, as I said on the very first thread, I'm all for this idea if the details can be hashed out. Simple "having the source code released" is probably not going to happen, but some sort of collaborative final patch might, and might be better overall.