1002 réponses à ce sujet

[SpiffySquee]

Yup! Another video because they are much more fun than a wall of text! Here I clearly explain why they are still RPGs and will always be RPGs. I also go why the game shows Shep's actions, but does not explore Shep's motivations...

Part 1


Part 2


A big Thanks to Mesina2 for helping me put the video together

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 19 août 2011 - 01:49 .

[RocketManSR2]

 [Image used as emote/commentary removed as spam] 

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 25 septembre 2011 - 01:52 .

[Savber100]

****storm in

3... 2... 1...

Sidenote: Interesting videos btw..

[Welsh Inferno]

This will go well.

[xXljoshlXx]

Honestly I don't care if it is labeled a RPG

[Vyse_Fina]

That's why Bioware stopped calling 3 a RPG right?

[xXljoshlXx]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Yup! Another video because they are much more fun than a wall of text! Here I clearly explain why they are still RPGs and will always be RPGs. I also go why the game shows Shep's actions, but does not explore Shep's motivations...

Part 1


Part 2

I actually like wall of texts...

[Mr. MannlyMan]

I don't care about the definition of RPG or how it applies to the Mass Effect series. I only care about how much I get to customize in terms of character builds, appearances, weapons, and story, and the quality/depth of said customization.

I also hope you know that classifying the Mass Effect series as "RPG" makes it vulnerable to comparisons with other RPGs that offer players more choice and more rewards. So games like Skyrim and Fallout are inherently better at being RPGs than Mass Effect 1/2/3 are. So, by trying to prove it's an RPG, you actually open the games up to criticism.

I do agree that Mass Effect is an RPG series at its core; it just has very underdeveloped and very "streamlined" (ie. trivialized) mechanics outside of story choices and dialogue.

[Someone With Mass]

Nice. I really don't like text walls, anyway.

By the way, I agree that Mass Effect is an RPG in one way that might not necessarily be true to other games like Dragon Age.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 19 août 2011 - 02:13 .

[deimosmasque]

Vyse_Fina wrote...

That's why Bioware stopped calling 3 a RPG right?

source?

[RAF1940]

Um... because you roleplay?

[Apocsapel91]

www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/305250.html

I think this is explains my feeling on the matter pretty well.

[SpiffySquee]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

I don't care about the definition of RPG or how it applies to the Mass Effect series. I only care about how much I get to customize in terms of character builds, appearances, weapons, and story, and the quality/depth of said customization.

I also hope you know that classifying the Mass Effect series as "RPG" makes it vulnerable to comparisons with other RPGs that offer players more choice and more rewards. So games like Skyrim and Fallout are inherently better at being RPGs than Mass Effect 1/2/3 are. So, by trying to prove it's an RPG, you actually open the games up to criticism.

I do agree that Mass Effect is an RPG series at its core; it just has very underdeveloped and very "streamlined" (ie. trivialized) mechanics outside of story choices and dialogue.

I don't remember claiming it was the best game ever made when it comes to Role Playing. I am simply arguing that it IS a role playing game.
A game like oblivion is a better RPG strictly speaking, but it does this at he expensive of a compelling, emotional  story. I think ME strikes a nice balance.
I would also like to know what you mean by better rewards. Personally, I feel the first time I did the collector ship (knowing that the people I worked so hard to get to know could die) was a much greater reward than any piece of equipment or skill that Oblivion could offer me. 

[Gatt9]

I'm not watching that,  I already know what it says.  "It's an RPG because there's a story,  and I pretend I'm shepherd".

1.  Narratives don't make games an RPG.

2.  Narrative techniques such as illusionary choices that don't actually have any effect don't make games RPG's or Roleplaying.

3.  There's a difference between those two things,  and if you're not aware of the difference between Roleplaying and a Roleplaying-Game,  respectfully,  you don't know what an RPG is.  This is Roleplaying...



I would be willing to bet 99% of the people who claim Roleplaying and RPG are the same thing don't realize they just defined RPG's as running around a forest with a plastic sword and shield yelling "Lightning bolt!  Lightning bolt!".  I'd be willing to bet an even bigger pile of money that those same people wouldn't willingly do that.

4.  RPG mechanics make things RPG's.  Just like First-person and Shooter mechanics make things FPS's,  just like Real-time and strategy mechanics make RTS.

So allow me to be the first to welcome all of the new members of the LARPSing community to their new home,  you can find the plastic swords and shields at ToysRus.

Or,  OTOH,  we can just admit that ME2 and likely ME3 are TPS's with a narrative.

Modifié par Gatt9, 19 août 2011 - 03:16 .

[Aaleel]

I don't agree with the statement that JRPGs aren't role-playing games.  That means that an actor/actress isn't playing a role because they're following a script.  Just like an actor/actress is playing the role of (insert character), the player is playing the role of (insert character)

Under your definition MMORPGs are just MMOGs

[RPGamer13]

Where's the stat point allocation? Why do we only have a health and a shield value? Where'a my accuracy and firepower?

Why do we only have around 4 weapons of each type? At leas the first game you got items from killing enemies, what happened to that? Where are the different armor types and the ability to equip your squad with them?

They're making it more like a shooter than an RPG. They're free to do that, but I would drop thw RPG modifier after the first game.

[Someone With Mass]

Gatt9 wrote...

I'm not watching that,  I already know what it says.  "It's an RPG because there's a story,  and I pretend I'm shepherd".

1.  Narratives don't make games an RPG.

2.  Narrative techniques such as illusionary choices that don't actually have any effect don't make games RPG's or Roleplaying.

3.  There's a difference between those two things,  and if you're not aware of the difference between Roleplaying and a Roleplaying-Game,  respectfully,  you don't know what an RPG is.  This is Roleplaying...



I would be willing to bet 99% of the people who claim Roleplaying and RPG are the same thing don't realize they just defined RPG's as running around a forest with a plastic sword and shield yelling "Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt!". I'd be willing to bet an even bigger pile of money that those same people wouldn't willingly do that.

4. RPG mechanics make things RPG's. Just like First-person and Shooter mechanics make things FPS's, just like Real-time and strategy mechanics make RTS.

So allow me to be the first to welcome all of the new members of the LARPSing community to their new home, you can find the plastic swords and shields at ToysRus.

Or, OTOH, we can just admit that ME2 and likely ME3 are TPS's with a narrative.

By that logic, there are a lot of games out there that are RPGs, when they really aren't.

Narrative is important, because it helps the player place themselves in their character's shoes and make choices accordingly. Or decide to make the character follow a certain path, like being a supporter of the Alliance or Cerberus, and that also helps making decisions. Same thing with the Paragon/Renegade system.

[xXljoshlXx]

Gatt9 wrote...

I'm not watching that

Anything past this invalid

[SpiffySquee]

Gatt9 wrote...

I'm not watching that,  I already know what it says.  "It's an RPG because there's a story,  and I pretend I'm shepherd".

1.  Narratives don't make games an RPG.

2.  Narrative techniques such as illusionary choices that don't actually have any effect don't make games RPG's or Roleplaying.

3.  There's a difference between those two things,  and if you're not aware of the difference between Roleplaying and a Roleplaying-Game,  respectfully,  you don't know what an RPG is.  This is Roleplaying...



I would be willing to bet 99% of the people who claim Roleplaying and RPG are the same thing don't realize they just defined RPG's as running around a forest with a plastic sword and shield yelling "Lightning bolt!  Lightning bolt!".  I'd be willing to bet an even bigger pile of money that those same people wouldn't willingly do that.

4.  RPG mechanics make things RPG's.  Just like First-person and Shooter mechanics make things FPS's,  just like Real-time and strategy mechanics make RTS.

So allow me to be the first to welcome all of the new members of the LARPSing community to their new home,  you can find the plastic swords and shields at ToysRus.

Or,  OTOH,  we can just admit that ME2 and likely ME3 are TPS's with a narrative.

Wow... you are so far off on what the video is about that it is just sad...
Narrative makes RPG? 
The fact that you think you can assume what a video is about is just... sadAnd then you think you can refute an argument you just assumed I made is just down right... arrogant  <_<

[SpiffySquee]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Where's the stat point allocation? Why do we only have a health and a shield value? Where'a my accuracy and firepower?

Why do we only have around 4 weapons of each type? At leas the first game you got items from killing enemies, what happened to that? Where are the different armor types and the ability to equip your squad with them?

They're making it more like a shooter than an RPG. They're free to do that, but I would drop thw RPG modifier after the first game.

Is it some sort of fad to just leave comments about a video you obviously did not watch? 

[wizardryforever]

Well I must say that to date, I've agreed with everything you've said Squee.  I've been making the same kinds of arguments for months on this forum and people still stubbornly cling to their stats and inventory as proof positive that RPGs are not RPGs unless they have these things.  Like you said, people are mixing up the end, and the means to that end.  Role-playing is the end, stats and inventory are the means to that end.  However, there are other means to get to that end.  It's just one possible way to do it, not the only way.

Of course, we'll just have to see how well received this thread is.  Most of the people who debate like responsible adults have gotten so tired of threads like this that they won't even look at it.  Instead you have ranting trolls like Gatt9 who don't even bother to hear your argument before rebutting it.  Sigh.

PS:  Why did you change your username?  Weren't you squee913 before?