1002 réponses à ce sujet

[Savber100]

Sharn01 wrote...

I think that bioware has given up on marketing to RPG fans.  We get what, two, or if where lucky, three games a year that are worth playing?  RPG fans have a tendency to do their own homework on what games carry the RPG title and determine if they are worth playing, and often play ones that arent that good because the market is so starved. 

Profit wise I think they feel its better to advertise to an audience that will play the game for six to twelve hours and shelve it with the other games they have never finished, this backfired for them with DA2, but then DA2 wasnt a very good game.  ME3 is almost certain to bring in most of the people who played ME and ME2, whichever one you liked better it probably hooked you on the series, and neither game is seen as poorly done by almost anyone, people have preferences and complaints, but you dont often see someone calling either game terrible.

Witcher 2, Skyrim, and Deus Ex: Human Revolutions will like a word with you. 

The hype for Skyrim and DX:HR and the success of The Witcher 2 is proving otherwise. 

[littlezack]

From what I understand, Skyrim's actually showed less RPG elements as of yet than ME3, and all the demos I've seen of Deus Ex showcase the combat and stealth.

[Candidate 88766]

Massadonious1 wrote...

People who use "CoD/GoW Crowd" as a slight clearly don't understand what the mainstream CoD/GoW fans want or play on a regular basis.

It's certainly not anything that BioWare has ever made.

Exactly. The Mass Effect games are single-player only games with a heavy emphasis on story and dialogue. GoW is focused on co-operative and competitive multiplayer, and aims for a gory, more over-the-top style of play and CoD aims mostly at competitive multiplayer within a modern and 'realistic' setting. I can sort of understand that because GoW and ME use the same engine and involve a third-person viewpoint people can see similarities, but the only similarities between ME and CoD are that they both involve guns and action, two features about as common as a start button.

People leaping on the CoD or GoW hate bandwagons actually need to give it some thought before doing so or else they come across as ignorant to the extreme.

[Candidate 88766]

littlezack wrote...

From what I understand, Skyrim's actually showed less RPG elements as of yet than ME3, and all the demos I've seen of Deus Ex showcase the combat and stealth.

All Skyrim has shown is dragons and streamlined interfaces. I personally think those are both very good things, particularly dragons (there aren't enough dragons in modern gaming) but they don't show it off as the holy grail of RPGs that people are claiming it will be. It'll almost certainly be a fantastic game, but I very much doubt that it'll be the hardcore RPG that a lot of people seem to be hoping for.

[SpiffySquee]

lolnoobs wrote...

Inverviewer: "What do you see as the current holy grail for RPGs right now?"

Casey Hudson: "To be honest, I don’t know. I never consider myself an RPG developer, and I don’t really worry about traditional genre conventions other than our own goals for making a great game. Typically our goals - creating interactive story, compelling progression, intense combat, and exploration -result in games that are classified as RPGs. But my intention is always to make the best possible story-driven games, and for me and my team, the next great design that we’re excited about is what we’re doing with ME3."





Bam, thread over.

Really? That's odd... I could have sworn I made this thread to discuss my views of what an RPG is, and to let people explain their views, not try to figure out what the Devs views are. So, no... thread not over.

Gatt9 wrote...

So i was just wondering if anyone else
would like to tell me about how ME2's an RPG considering the Doc just
made claims about RPG's being "Less relevant" and ME being a
conversational shooter?

He's wrong about the RPG's,  but I'd
really love to see how people continue to define it as an RPG when even
the Docs say they don't intend for it to be one.

Funny you should ask... I happen to have a video that talks all about it! It's in the OP... oh wait... you can't be bothered to watch it, so you just make assumptions about it and think anyone will listen to what you have to say on this thread...

[lolnoobs]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

People who use "CoD/GoW Crowd" as a slight clearly don't understand what the mainstream CoD/GoW fans want or play on a regular basis.

It's certainly not anything that BioWare has ever made.

Exactly. The Mass Effect games are single-player only games with a heavy emphasis on story and dialogue. GoW is focused on co-operative and competitive multiplayer, and aims for a gory, more over-the-top style of play and CoD aims mostly at competitive multiplayer within a modern and 'realistic' setting. I can sort of understand that because GoW and ME use the same engine and involve a third-person viewpoint people can see similarities, but the only similarities between ME and CoD are that they both involve guns and action, two features about as common as a start button.

People leaping on the CoD or GoW hate bandwagons actually need to give it some thought before doing so or else they come across as ignorant to the extreme.

Every trailer/gameplay/story video for ME3 available right now is about space marine Shepard shooting people and robots covering behind chest high walls or stabbing them with the chainsaw ba...eh omniblade. Yes i'm sure Bioware and EA are not aiming for the COD,GOW etc crowd...

[SpiffySquee]

lolnoobs wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

People who use "CoD/GoW Crowd" as a slight clearly don't understand what the mainstream CoD/GoW fans want or play on a regular basis.

It's certainly not anything that BioWare has ever made.

Exactly. The Mass Effect games are single-player only games with a heavy emphasis on story and dialogue. GoW is focused on co-operative and competitive multiplayer, and aims for a gory, more over-the-top style of play and CoD aims mostly at competitive multiplayer within a modern and 'realistic' setting. I can sort of understand that because GoW and ME use the same engine and involve a third-person viewpoint people can see similarities, but the only similarities between ME and CoD are that they both involve guns and action, two features about as common as a start button.

People leaping on the CoD or GoW hate bandwagons actually need to give it some thought before doing so or else they come across as ignorant to the extreme.

Every trailer/gameplay/story video for ME3 available right now is about space marine Shepard shooting people and robots covering behind chest high walls or stabbing them with the chainsaw ba...eh omniblade. Yes i'm sure Bioware and EA are not aiming for the COD,GOW etc crowd...

So, I just imagined the demo where they showed the skill trees and mods for weapons? Man, I have got to stop drinking this coffee...

[Pulletlamer]

Couldn't have explained it better myself. That's it.

I have played a lot of RPG board games, in addition to RPG videogames and I agree completely with what you explained in the video(s).

Whoever disagrees, I think is missing the point of role-playing.That's it. Nothing more to add.

Congrats SpiffySquee.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 23 août 2011 - 02:22 .

[lolnoobs]

SpiffySquee wrote...

So, I just imagined the demo where they showed the skill trees and mods for weapons? Man, I have got to stop drinking this coffee...

Wait, you mean the vid were they say that skill trees and mods are basically pointless?

"You can always hit Y and you're good to go."

[lolnoobs]

Pulletlamer wrote...

Couldn't have explained it better myself. That's it.

I have played a lot of RPG board games, in addition to RPG videogames and I agree completely with what you explained in the video(s).

Whoever disagrees, I think is missing the point of role-playing.That's it. Nothing more to add.

Congrats SpiffySquee.

The point of RPG means "Having some good or evil responses"? GTA4 has those. So does Dawn of War 2 CR. Which i said before. Yet nobody claims those 2 are RPGs. Odd.

Modifié par lolnoobs, 23 août 2011 - 02:43 .

[Candidate 88766]

SpiffySquee wrote...

lolnoobs wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

People who use "CoD/GoW Crowd" as a slight clearly don't understand what the mainstream CoD/GoW fans want or play on a regular basis.

It's certainly not anything that BioWare has ever made.

Exactly. The Mass Effect games are single-player only games with a heavy emphasis on story and dialogue. GoW is focused on co-operative and competitive multiplayer, and aims for a gory, more over-the-top style of play and CoD aims mostly at competitive multiplayer within a modern and 'realistic' setting. I can sort of understand that because GoW and ME use the same engine and involve a third-person viewpoint people can see similarities, but the only similarities between ME and CoD are that they both involve guns and action, two features about as common as a start button.

People leaping on the CoD or GoW hate bandwagons actually need to give it some thought before doing so or else they come across as ignorant to the extreme.

Every trailer/gameplay/story video for ME3 available right now is about space marine Shepard shooting people and robots covering behind chest high walls or stabbing them with the chainsaw ba...eh omniblade. Yes i'm sure Bioware and EA are not aiming for the COD,GOW etc crowd...

So, I just imagined the demo where they showed the skill trees and mods for weapons? Man, I have got to stop drinking this coffee...

I think I imagined there was that Earth demo showing off the story and hinting at the emotional side. Nope, must be wrong.


CoD and GoW are heavily focused on the multiplayer side of gaming. CoD focuses on the competitive side of multiplayer while GoW focuses on the co-operative side with horde mode and the campaign. Just because ME3 finally has good combat doesn't mean it automatically appeals to fans of multiplayer games. You seriously need to find a new bandwagon to leap on.

And you say every trailer shows this off  - there have been, what, 4 actual trailers? Two of which are not in-game footage and focus on the story, one of which was made up of demo footage because that was all that was available and finally the most recent one which to date is the only trailer that has focused on the new and improved combat. Out of the demos they've shown the only substantial ones they've shown are Earth (story focused) and Shur-Kesh, which focuses on combat and the improved RPG mechanics.

[Candidate 88766]

lolnoobs wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

So, I just imagined the demo where they showed the skill trees and mods for weapons? Man, I have got to stop drinking this coffee...

Wait, you mean the vid were they say that skill trees and mods are basically pointless?

"You can always hit Y and you're good to go."

You could do that in ME1...

[lolnoobs]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

lolnoobs wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

So, I just imagined the demo where they showed the skill trees and mods for weapons? Man, I have got to stop drinking this coffee...

Wait, you mean the vid were they say that skill trees and mods are basically pointless?

"You can always hit Y and you're good to go."

You could do that in ME1...

Correct! One <3 for you.

[Candidate 88766]

lolnoobs wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

lolnoobs wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

So, I just imagined the demo where they showed the skill trees and mods for weapons? Man, I have got to stop drinking this coffee...

Wait, you mean the vid were they say that skill trees and mods are basically pointless?

"You can always hit Y and you're good to go."

You could do that in ME1...

Correct! One <3 for you.

A whole <3? For me? 

OT: why are are complaining that ME3 has an auto level-up feature when it was present in ME1, ME2 and plenty of other RPGs. I quite like micromanaging my character, but the story is the main attraction of Mass Effect and I don't doubt that many people want to enjoy ME3s story but don't want to have to deal with distributing points when the game can do it more efficiently.

Also, why are you complaining about the lack of RPG stuff if you think it is pointless?

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 23 août 2011 - 02:52 .

[SpiffySquee]

lolnoobs wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

So, I
just imagined the demo where they showed the skill trees and mods for
weapons? Man, I have got to stop drinking this coffee...

Wait, you mean the vid were they say that skill trees and mods are basically pointless?

"You can always hit Y and you're good to go."

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Could you point out where anyone said anything like that?

lolnoobs wrote...

The point of RPG means "Having some good or evil responses"? GTA4 has those. So does Dawn of War 2 CR. Which i said before. Yet nobody claims those 2 are RPGs. Odd.

Ummm... again... 
You cannot take 10% of an argument, ignore the other 90% and pretend that is the entire argument. Thinking that I said The point of RPG means "Having some good or evil responses"? means either

A. You have not watched the video

B. Are ignoring 90% of the argument I made because it does not fit with your argument.

C. Have absolutely horrible comprehension skills.


care to clear up which is the correct answer?

[Someone With Mass]

SpiffySquee wrote...



Could you point out where anyone said anything like that?

Silverman said it, so I wouldn't take it too seriously.



While you can press Y to auto level up, I find it stupid to do so, since it'll more than likely spend points in powers you don't like/want.

[ThePwener]

This thing is still going on? Well stubbornness is a must trait around here.

[Pulletlamer]

lolnoobs wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

Couldn't have explained it better myself. That's it.

I have played a lot of RPG board games, in addition to RPG videogames and I agree completely with what you explained in the video(s).

Whoever disagrees, I think is missing the point of role-playing.That's it. Nothing more to add.

Congrats SpiffySquee.

The point of RPG means "Having some good or evil responses"? GTA4 has those. So does Dawn of War 2 CR. Which i said before. Yet nobody claims those 2 are RPGs. Odd.

The point of an RPG is playing as a character and getting immersed in the game universe and story.

Morality It's a good addition, but not the main feature of RPG's. What you do, what you say, what you choose, and how you evolve your character or the way you get immersed in the universe and make decisions/actions as if you were the one playing, etc all together makes a RPG.

Having a dialog wheel without a morality system still makes a valid role-playing game.

While yes, decisions, and choices you make greatly influence the evolution of your character, and are important in RPG's, role-playing it's much more than being evil or good at some point in the game.

Just because you have 1 or 2 or 3 choices in a RTS or action game it doesn't automatically make it turn into a role-playing game.

The perfect RPG would be one where you could express and (try to) do what you want at any moment. However, games have limitations and it's not possible to do so.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 23 août 2011 - 03:02 .

[Krunjar]

Of course mass effect 3 is an RPG most games are.The idiots who like their games to be all gore/guns and 0 plot whine. They have plenty of licenses of their own, far too much in fact. And I know a good game when I play it. But the fact is mass effect si an rpg AND an fps. The terms are not mutually exclusive. Unless you are a hidebound simpleton.

[SpiffySquee]

Someone With Mass wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...



Could you point out where anyone said anything like that?

Silverman said it, so I wouldn't take it too seriously.



While you can press Y to auto level up, I find it stupid to do so, since it'll more than likely spend points in powers you don't like/want.

Wait... did lol seriously suggest that because you have the option to auto level, a skill tree is useless? Even if you auto level, it still improves the character... So skill trees are still useful, they just give you the option to have the computer decided it for you.

Hey, the Widow Maker is optional. You don't even have to use it! Must be useless then...

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 23 août 2011 - 03:06 .

[Someone With Mass]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Wait... did lol seriously suggest that because you have the option to auto level, a skill tree is useless? Even if you auto level, it still improves the character... So skill trees are still useful, they just give you the option to have the computer decided it for you.

Hey, the Widow Maker is optional. You don't even have to use it! Must be useless then...

Pretty much. It's like saying that just because planes have autopilots, the real pilots are obsolete.

[Savber100]

lolnoobs wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

So, I just imagined the demo where they showed the skill trees and mods for weapons? Man, I have got to stop drinking this coffee...

Wait, you mean the vid were they say that skill trees and mods are basically pointless?

"You can always hit Y and you're good to go."

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie] --> [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie] --> [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Savber100, 23 août 2011 - 03:28 .

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Shame on Bioware for trying to aim ME3 at a larger audience thus bringing in more sales. Shame on them. Seriously do you people think before say this stuff.....oh wait sorry I forgot its BSN.

[CroGamer002]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...



Could you point out where anyone said anything like that?

Silverman said it, so I wouldn't take it too seriously.



While you can press Y to auto level up, I find it stupid to do so, since it'll more than likely spend points in powers you don't like/want.

Wait... did lol seriously suggest that because you have the option to auto level, a skill tree is useless? Even if you auto level, it still improves the character... So skill trees are still useful, they just give you the option to have the computer decided it for you.

Hey, the Widow Maker is optional. You don't even have to use it! Must be useless then...

You also have auto level up in ME1 as well.

[littlezack]

Mesina2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...



Could you point out where anyone said anything like that?

Silverman said it, so I wouldn't take it too seriously.



While you can press Y to auto level up, I find it stupid to do so, since it'll more than likely spend points in powers you don't like/want.

Wait... did lol seriously suggest that because you have the option to auto level, a skill tree is useless? Even if you auto level, it still improves the character... So skill trees are still useful, they just give you the option to have the computer decided it for you.

Hey, the Widow Maker is optional. You don't even have to use it! Must be useless then...

You also have auto level up in ME1 as well.

Most RPGs, for that matter. Hell, some RPGs don't even let you turn off the auto.