1002 réponses à ce sujet

[Rockworm503]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...
Isn't Role Playing all about using your imagination?
The naysayers constantly going on about how Shepard has no personality and no real motivation.  He's a brick yet if Bioware had infused him/her with a load of personality then they would complain that they don't leave it to them.
Where is your imagination?  I don't think anyone complained that the rule book didn't infuse your character with a personality when you start up a DnD game.

I see the backgrounds and different classes as just a way of putting more personality in each Shepard. The rest is really up to the individual player, not BioWare. 

Because they can't plan for every single thing a player might want to do/be.

This is true with any game.  You can't have every decision be a huge deal and have it carry over to future games realistically. Can you imagine having to write, render, put together, every choice someone made from the first game to the 2nd and finally the 3rd?
EVERY choice mattering?  I laugh at the idea.  We'd be waiting 20 more years AT LEAST just to see how the first few choices play out differently throughout.
People complain about getting some stupid Emails in ME2... I say with this import save feature still relitevely new.  I'm thrilled to have that much.

[lolnoobs]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...
Isn't Role Playing all about using your imagination?
The naysayers constantly going on about how Shepard has no personality and no real motivation.  He's a brick yet if Bioware had infused him/her with a load of personality then they would complain that they don't leave it to them.
Where is your imagination?  I don't think anyone complained that the rule book didn't infuse your character with a personality when you start up a DnD game.

I see the backgrounds and different classes as just a way of putting more personality in each Shepard. The rest is really up to the individual player, not BioWare. 

Because they can't plan for every single thing a player might want to do/be.

This is true with any game.  You can't have every decision be a huge deal and have it carry over to future games realistically. Can you imagine having to write, render, put together, every choice someone made from the first game to the 2nd and finally the 3rd?
EVERY choice mattering?  I laugh at the idea.  We'd be waiting 20 more years AT LEAST just to see how the first few choices play out differently throughout.
People complain about getting some stupid Emails in ME2... I say with this import save feature still relitevely new.  I'm thrilled to have that much.

Up untill now, they don't even have ONE descision that actually matters. NOT ONE!

[Rockworm503]

*sigh I'm way to tired to deal with this cynism.
Here is an idea. Make the game yourself because all this venom over this would totally make me quit. Probably a good thing they don't spend time here and actually focus on the game so we can pick it apart with a fine tooth comb and hate on them some more for even bothering.

[Someone With Mass]

lolnoobs wrote...

Up untill now, they don't even have ONE descision that actually matters. NOT ONE!

Saving/sacrificing the Council.

Sparing/killing the rachni queen

Salvaging/destroying the Collector base.

Legion's, Tali's and Mordin's loyalty missions.

Were they not important?

[Rockworm503]

Someone With Mass wrote...

lolnoobs wrote...

Up untill now, they don't even have ONE descision that actually matters. NOT ONE!

Saving/sacrificing the Council.

Sparing/killing the rachni queen

Salvaging/destroying the Collector base.

Legion's, Tali's and Mordin's loyalty missions.

Were they not important?

Don't bother.  Its obvious they only matter if the enitre galaxy has big reaction to your decisions.

[lolnoobs]

Saving/sacrificing the Council.
And that changes what? Spectre status that does nothing? Nice!

Sparing/killing the rachni queen
You get a couple of dialog lines from a Asari.

Salvaging/destroying the Collector base.
That changes nothing at all, since it's after the story. Maybe in ME3. But that isn't out yet.

Legion's, Tali's and Mordin's loyalty missions.
They change NOTHING to the story. Yes you save geth, but that DOES NOTHING.

Were they not important?
No, not one of them made any difference at all to the main story. Not even to Shepard himself, he continues to be a brick.


Do i really have to wait until ME3 to see any consequence?

Modifié par lolnoobs, 24 août 2011 - 11:35 .

[Someone With Mass]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Don't bother.  Its obvious they only matter if the enitre galaxy has big reaction to your decisions.

Oh.

Attention-wh*ring, in other words.

[Rockworm503]

lolnoobs wrote...

Saving/sacrificing the Council.
And that changes what? Spectre status that does nothing? Nice!

Sparing/killing the rachni queen
You get a couple of dialog lines from a Asari.

Salvaging/destroying the Collector base.
That changes nothing at all, since it's after the story. Maybe in ME3. But that isn't out yet.

Legion's, Tali's and Mordin's loyalty missions.
They change NOTHING to the story. Yes you save geth, but that DOES NOTHING.

Were they not important?
No, not one of them made any difference at all to the main story. Not even to Shepard himself, he continues to be a brick.


Do i really have to wait until ME3 to see any consequence?

No of course not.  Every decision you make should have EMEDIATE consequences THE VERY F_ING second you make them because otherwise they don't matter.
Seeing as this was planned as a trilogy from the start.  It is astonishing how you expect everything to be finished before the 3rd part.  

[Massadonious1]

I agree with lolnoobs. Major decisions and plot points should be wrapped up in the second part of a trilogy.

George Lucas and Peter Jackson were obviously doing things wrong.

[Someone With Mass]

lolnoobs wrote...
Do i really have to wait until ME3 to see any consequence?

Yes. The game even tells you that.


But I guess the leading theme of people like you is: "If it doesn't show consequences immediately, they don't exist at all".

Which is beyond stupid.

[Rockworm503]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I agree with lolnoobs. Major decisions and plot points should be wrapped up in the second part of a trilogy.

George Lucas and Peter Jackson were obviously doing things wrong.

Wait you mean taking down Isengard wasn't the end?
OH man your saying that theres more after Luke learns that Darth Vader is his father?

Oh man next your gonna tell me that theres more to Harry Potter after he rescues his Godfather from the dementors!

[SpiffySquee]

besides, as I said before, every decision in the game has a consequence, even if it only affects the current conversation. Depending on what I say or do, the world around responds different. It reflects my decisions, and thus, every choice helps to define who my shepard is and how they view the world. I hold Tali when her dad died. The game shows that Tali is greatful for the support and that it means something to her. This very simple act that is never again discussed help define who my shepard is and how they feel about what is going on around me. I do not need the game to remind me of what I did 8 hours down the road.

Why does everyone believe that no choice is valid unless it has drastic effects on the whole world? If I help an old lady across the street, it won't change anything. I won't seem some major change in the world a week later. However, it still helps to define me as a person.

And besides... Who in the world expect all the decisions of the hero to be resolved and finished half way through the story? Thats like reading a book, getting 2/3rd of the way through and throwing it down because nothing has been resolved yet.

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 24 août 2011 - 12:08 .

[Pulletlamer]

Gatt9 wrote...
Acdtually,  what you've pretty consistently demonstrated is a major break in logic.  It's really this simple...

Assert - A game with a story and decisions is an RPG
             -Halo had a story
             -Wing Commander 3 had decisions
                  -Halo is an FPS
                  -Wing Commander 3 is a Space-Sim
              -Contradiction


Your arguements fail quickly,  because logically they don't work once you leave the Mass-Effect universe.  My arguements OTOH,  pass the test.  My definition is simple,  can it be translated to PnP.  If it cannot,  it's not an RPG.  Any example you come up with is going to be a LARPS,  not an RPG.

That's the biggest fallacy I have ever seen on my entire life. Congratulations. Nothing more to add.

lolnoobs wrote...

You are confusing LARP with a RPG video game.

There's only the term RPG. A role-playing videogame it's still as much as an RPG as a board game. Otherwise there would be RPVG's, RPBG's, LARP's...

Last I checked LARP were a totally different thing from classic RPG.

lolnoobs wrote...

Up untill now, they don't even have ONE descision that actually matters. NOT ONE!

False. All (or most of) the actions on ME have consequences and impact differently. Wheter the impact is not big or very different it's not relevant since they all have an impact anyway.

Plus games have limitations, you can't ask for a game with hundreds of choices that EVERY choice has a big impact.

lolnoobs wrote...

Saving/sacrificing the Council.
And that changes what? Spectre status that does nothing? Nice!

Sparing/killing the rachni queen
You get a couple of dialog lines from a Asari.

Salvaging/destroying the Collector base.
That changes nothing at all, since it's after the story. Maybe in ME3. But that isn't out yet.

Legion's, Tali's and Mordin's loyalty missions.
They change NOTHING to the story. Yes you save geth, but that DOES NOTHING.

Were they not important?
No, not one of them made any difference at all to the main story. Not even to Shepard himself, he continues to be a brick.


Do i really have to wait until ME3 to see any consequence?

The developers planned accordingly to make a trilogy and make that the choices on previous games would carry over (and have some have an impact) on the next(s) one(s).

In ME2 Shepard is supposed to gain the loyalty of their squadmates to go on a SM. The geth/quarian war is not very relevant (in the sense that they don't change Shepard's plans/mission) to the plot in ME2 , as well as the genophage, as well as the final outcomes of the other LMs. But they are going to matter on ME3.

By that rule I could say the CB decision does nothing. You have a broken logic. The point is that decisions have an impact, whether is on the actual game or in the next one doesn't matter. Some decisions mattering on the next games is intentional anyway.

If they did or are going to have an impact they do actually matter and are important.

SpiffySquee wrote...

besides, as I said before, every decision in the game has a consequence, even if it only affects the current conversation. Depending on what I say or do, the world around responds different. It reflects my decisions, and thus, every choice helps to define who my shepard is and how they view the world. I hold Tali when her dad died. The game shows that Tali is greatful for the support and that it means something to her. This very simple act that is never again discussed help define who my shepard is and how they feel about what is going on around me. I do not need the game to remind me of what I did 8 hours down the road.

Why does everyone believe that no choice is valid unless it has drastic effects on the whole world? If I help an old lady across the street, it won't change anything. I won't seem some major change in the world a week later. However, it still helps to define me as a person.

And besides... Who in the world expect all the decisions of the hero to be resolved and finished half
way through the story? Thats like reading a book, getting 2/3rd of the way through and throwing it down because nothing has been resolved yet.

This. Exactly what I'm trying to say.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 24 août 2011 - 01:25 .

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Agreed^. Also what you say on this thread has an effect on people who believe their opinion is fact. They get get angry decide your opinion is wrong. Does it change the world around you or effect anything around you. Maybe not but it is effecting how these people view you as a person.

To all naysayers no one who likes Mass Effect is gonna give a sh*t what kind of game you think it is. Getting all worked up for no reason just to prove a point we don't care about. This is a pointless argument and has no effect on the world at large. See what I did there.

Modifié par SpEcIaLRyAn, 24 août 2011 - 07:19 .

[Sgt Stryker]

lolnoobs wrote...

Saving/sacrificing the Council.
And that changes what? Spectre status that does nothing? Nice!

Sparing/killing the rachni queen
You get a couple of dialog lines from a Asari.

Salvaging/destroying the Collector base.
That changes nothing at all, since it's after the story. Maybe in ME3. But that isn't out yet.

Legion's, Tali's and Mordin's loyalty missions.
They change NOTHING to the story. Yes you save geth, but that DOES NOTHING.

Were they not important?
No, not one of them made any difference at all to the main story. Not even to Shepard himself, he continues to be a brick.


Do i really have to wait until ME3 to see any consequence?

Stop watching smudboy videos. Stuff rots your brains.

[Nozybidaj]

Someone With Mass wrote...

lolnoobs wrote...
Do i really have to wait until ME3 to see any consequence?

Yes. The game even tells you that.


But I guess the leading theme of people like you is: "If it doesn't show consequences immediately, they don't exist at all".

Which is beyond stupid.

Yeah, I remember back when they told us our ME1 choices would have such great impact on the sequel.  Seeing how wonderfully that turned out how could anyone doubt them now? I don't know what I would have done in ME2 without those emails, they'll go down in video game history as examples of how to do choice and consequences the right way.

jreezy wrote...

Calling it a shooter with interactive dialog isn't labeling it properly either.

That's actually about the most apt description one could give it. /shrug

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 24 août 2011 - 09:34 .

[Rockworm503]

Yes I so expected the rachni queen to come out of hiding and help me during the collectors.
I think that Asari that I let live after killing the Thorium should've done my job for me.
Letting Wrex lived should've gotten the entire Krogan race on my side.
Don't tell me that expecting the council to be nicer to me and support my actions with a terrorist group unreasonable.
Lets have everything come to a head at ME2 so that when ME3 comes around there's nothing really happening.
THAT SOUNDS SO SMART!

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, there's probably nothing like saving those decisions to a point where they actually matter or anything. Nope.

[Nozybidaj]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Yes I so expected the rachni queen to come out of hiding and help me during the collectors.
I think that Asari that I let live after killing the Thorium should've done my job for me.
Letting Wrex lived should've gotten the entire Krogan race on my side.
Don't tell me that expecting the council to be nicer to me and support my actions with a terrorist group unreasonable.
Lets have everything come to a head at ME2 so that when ME3 comes around there's nothing really happening.
THAT SOUNDS SO SMART!

That actually would have been better than just rebooting the series and sending my stupid emails to pretend they still care about that fact that this was part 2 instead of a new part 1.

[Rockworm503]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Yes I so expected the rachni queen to come out of hiding and help me during the collectors.
I think that Asari that I let live after killing the Thorium should've done my job for me.
Letting Wrex lived should've gotten the entire Krogan race on my side.
Don't tell me that expecting the council to be nicer to me and support my actions with a terrorist group unreasonable.
Lets have everything come to a head at ME2 so that when ME3 comes around there's nothing really happening.
THAT SOUNDS SO SMART!

That actually would have been better than just rebooting the series and sending my stupid emails to pretend they still care about that fact that this was part 2 instead of a new part 1.

and you know what? their going to do the exact same thing so goodbye.

[Gatt9]

Pulletlamer wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...
Acdtually,  what you've pretty consistently demonstrated is a major break in logic.  It's really this simple...

Assert - A game with a story and decisions is an RPG
             -Halo had a story
             -Wing Commander 3 had decisions
                  -Halo is an FPS
                  -Wing Commander 3 is a Space-Sim
              -Contradiction


Your arguements fail quickly,  because logically they don't work once you leave the Mass-Effect universe.  My arguements OTOH,  pass the test.  My definition is simple,  can it be translated to PnP.  If it cannot,  it's not an RPG.  Any example you come up with is going to be a LARPS,  not an RPG.

That's the biggest fallacy I have ever seen on my entire life. Congratulations. Nothing more to add.

Which means you cannot refute it?  Go ahead,  it's a simple proof,  by all means break it.

Except you can't,  all I had to do was find one incident that disproves it,  now the burden is upon you to provide a counterproof showing that for all games,  if it has a story and decisions they are RPG's,  which is impossible.

As such,  logically,  "A game with a story and decisions is an RPG" (As has been asserted numerous times in this thread) is clearly false.

[Il Divo]

Gatt9 wrote...

Which means you cannot refute it?  Go ahead,  it's a simple proof,  by all means break it.

Except you can't,  all I had to do was find one incident that disproves it,  now the burden is upon you to provide a counterproof showing that for all games,  if it has a story and decisions they are RPG's,  which is impossible.

As such,  logically,  "A game with a story and decisions is an RPG" (As has been asserted numerous times in this thread) is clearly false.

Honestly, how many people here have asserted that story in and of itself makes an RPG? The term most typically use is "interactive narrative", which is different than story.