1002 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

Squee, not to be blunt, but that is going to happen when we delve into the "What is an RPG?" category. There's always going to be off-shoot arguments from the original. We are the internet after all. We have a reputation to maintain.

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 août 2011 - 02:20 .

[Guldhun2]

SpiffySquee wrote...

People keep ignoring the original argument. The videos argued the fact that inventory, stats, and skill trees were merely a means to an end. They helped a person role play, but they were not necessary for a game to be an RPG. The argument was never that ME is a pure RPG, or that it did not have action elements. It was simply that those aspects listed above are not the sole or most important reason an RPG is called an RPG and that reducing their importance in ME2 did not mean it lost it's RPG aspect. I have never and will never claim ME is pure RPG. It is a hybrid.

The title of this Thread is "Why Mass Effect 1,2, &3 are RPGs"

Even though you say they are both action and some rpg.

A mule is not a donkey, and a mule is not a horse. It's both. I know it's a stupid analogy, but it fits i think. You don't go around saying "Why a mule is a horse" are you?

[Guldhun2]

Il Divo wrote...

Squee, not to be blunt, but that is going to happen when we delve into the "What is an RPG?" category. There's always going to be off-shoot arguments from the original. We are the internet after all. We have a reputation to maintain.

Again, squee says that ME is an RPG because you have Paragon/Renegade/neutral dialogue(Or QTE's) options.

You have that in Heavy Rain. But nobody is claiming HR is a rpg.

[SpiffySquee]

Guldhun2 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Yet Deus Ex is not a RPG. 

So when did that happen?

When the developers themselves call it an ActionRpg.

So.... salt water is not water?? I am lost in this logic

[Darkelefantos1]

The athore coments al totol lies!

[SpiffySquee]

Il Divo wrote...

Squee, not to be blunt, but that is going to happen when we delve into the "What is an RPG?" category. There's always going to be off-shoot arguments from the original. We are the internet after all. We have a reputation to maintain.

Oh I know Il Divo, and I don't mind so much... but a friendly nudge once in a while helps keep things from derailing too far 

[SpiffySquee]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Squee, not to be blunt, but that is going to happen when we delve into the "What is an RPG?" category. There's always going to be off-shoot arguments from the original. We are the internet after all. We have a reputation to maintain.

Again, squee says that ME is an RPG because you have Paragon/Renegade/neutral dialogue(Or QTE's) options.

You have that in Heavy Rain. But nobody is claiming HR is a rpg.

*sigh* look, you have been one of the few who actually attempts to discuss, so I don't want to sound anything but grateful... but stop taking 5% of my argument and pretend it is the whole argument. That is not what I said, not even close. Watch the videos again.

[Il Divo]

Guldhun2 wrote...

The title of this Thread is "Why Mass Effect 1,2, &3 are RPGs"

Even though you say they are both action and some rpg.

A mule is not a donkey, and a mule is not a horse. It's both. I know it's a stupid analogy, but it fits i think. You don't go around saying "Why a mule is a horse" are you?

It's not that the example is stupid; it just doesn't work. From a linguistic perspective, a mule is a noun. 'Action-RPG" is noun + adjective.

If you want an example of why it doesn't work, consider this: a black bear and a brown bear are both bears. Bear, the noun, provides the substance. Brown/black are adjectives, describing of what kind the bear is.

Likewise, an action-RPG remains an RPG, much how a black bear is still a bear.

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 août 2011 - 02:37 .

[Darkelefantos1]

Il Divo wrote...
It's not that the example is stupid; it just doesn't work. From a linguistic perspective, a mule is a noun. 'Action-RPG" is noun + adjective.  

I'm sorry? Neither "action" nor "RPG" classify as adjectives, it's a compound noun created out of nouns. Oh no, it's grammar.

[Guldhun2]

SpiffySquee wrote...

*sigh* look, you have been one of the few who actually attempts to discuss, so I don't want to sound anything but grateful... but stop taking 5% of my argument and pretend it is the whole argument. That is not what I said, not even close. Watch the videos again.

You play the role of Shepard, you define your character(and his actions) of Shepard with the paragon, renegade or neutral descision, that's what you mean right? Because i really have no idea what you mean with define or role play shepard if you don't use the pr system. Because that's the only time you have any influence whatsoever with the personality of Shep.

You can do all that in Heavy Rain.

Modifié par Guldhun2, 26 août 2011 - 02:44 .

[Il Divo]

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

I'm sorry? Neither "action" nor "RPG" classify as adjectives, it's a compound noun created out of nouns. Oh no, it's grammar.

That may be, but it's getting around the point. When using compound nouns, what comes first typically modifies what comes second. Even if we want to argue that action/RGP are not adjectives, they are filling the same function. In this case, action is telling us what kind of RPG we have (much like an adjective), not the other way around. Otherwise, it would be an RPG-action, where RPG tells us what kind of action game we have.

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 août 2011 - 02:46 .

[Guldhun2]

Il Divo wrote...

That may be, but it's getting around the point. When using compound nouns, what comes first typically modifies what comes second. Even if we want to argue that action/RGP are not adjectives, they are filling the same function. In this case, action is telling us what kind of RPG we have (much like an adjective), not the other way around. Otherwise, it would be an RPG-action, where RPG tells us what kind of action game we have.

Can you give me one example of a game being marketed and sold as a RPG-action game?

[SpiffySquee]

Guldhun2 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

*sigh* look, you have been one of the few who actually attempts to discuss, so I don't want to sound anything but grateful... but stop taking 5% of my argument and pretend it is the whole argument. That is not what I said, not even close. Watch the videos again.

You play the role of Shepard, you define your character(and his actions) of Shepard with the paragon, renegade or neutral descision, that's what you mean right? Because i really have no idea what you mean with define or role play shepard if you don't use the pr system. Because that's the only time you have any influence whatsoever with the personality of Shep.

You can do all that in Heavy Rain.

Never played heavy rain so I can't say anything about it. Using your dialog choices, interrupts, and actions, you can dictate what type of person Shepard is. You have control over how Shepard views the world and the people in it. You can be compassionate or ruthless. You can love aliens or hate them. You can take an ends justify the means approach or have high morals etc etc etc.

You also have the ability to change these views over the course of the game. You can make Shepard grow as a character and as a person. Every decision (big or small) help to show what kind of person Shepard is, and is reflected by the world around them. It is more more complex than "am I renegade or paragon" It is much more in depth than, "do i kill this person or not".  I can play two different Shepard and they can have two completely different personalities, views of the world, and likes or dislikes.

If heavy rain can so that, then i would say that it is at least part RPG

[Il Divo]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

That may be, but it's getting around the point. When using compound nouns, what comes first typically modifies what comes second. Even if we want to argue that action/RGP are not adjectives, they are filling the same function. In this case, action is telling us what kind of RPG we have (much like an adjective), not the other way around. Otherwise, it would be an RPG-action, where RPG tells us what kind of action game we have.

Can you give me one example of a game being marketed and sold as a RPG-action game?

None. The point is about linguistics, not about how we actually use (or misuse) language. Technically, if we have action-RPG we should be able to have RPG-action.

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 août 2011 - 02:56 .

[Chewin]

SpiffySquee wrote...
If heavy rain can so that, then i would say that it is at least part RPG

Heavy Rain is considered to be an adventure role playing game. True, you can't loot, choose class, name, customize, etc, but it's still considered as one.

[Guldhun2]

Chewin3 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...
If heavy rain can so that, then i would say that it is at least part RPG

Heavy Rain is considered to be an adventure role playing game. True, you can't loot, choose class, name, customize, etc, but it's still considered as one.

No it's not.

Third-Person Adventure
http://www.google.co...ved=0CD4Q8wIwAg

Interactive drama psychological thriller video game
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Heavy_Rain

Adventure
http://www.gamespot....rain/index.html

Genre: Adventure
http://ps3.gamespy.c.../1068858p1.html

[Chewin]

jreezy wrote...
I've never heard or read anything where someone categorized Heavy Rain as such.

Just use google and you'll find interviews and stuff saying it. Or use the wiki (if you believe what it says, that is).

[Fiery Knight]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...
If heavy rain can so that, then i would say that it is at least part RPG

Heavy Rain is considered to be an adventure role playing game. True, you can't loot, choose class, name, customize, etc, but it's still considered as one.

No it's not.

Third-Person Adventure
http://www.google.co...ved=0CD4Q8wIwAg

Interactive drama psychological thriller video game
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Heavy_Rain

Adventure
http://www.gamespot....rain/index.html

Genre: Adventure
http://ps3.gamespy.c.../1068858p1.html

The wikpedia says otherwise

[Il Divo]

Guldhun2 wrote...


Interactive drama psychological thriller video game
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Heavy_Rain

Odd to see a game classified using movie genres. I guess they didn't know what else to call it.

[Darkelefantos1]

I'm sorry what the butter are people actually discussing about atm? I don't see how Heavy Rain has to do with RPGs, Mass Effect or with what Squee said.
Also, Wikipedia to prove he's right (-.-):

http://en.wikipedia....laying_shooters
http://en.wikipedia....Effect_(series)

[Kusy]

Mass Effect is a RPG because it's not! PARADOX! Infinite loop divided by zero!
WTFBOOOOOOOM!