147 réponses à ce sujet

[Therefore_I_Am]

D.Kain wrote...

@Reptillius

I can still shoot my target in ME2, while my biotics fly, so it means that it's not only about the animation.

Making biotics fast phased is actually another bad idea, because it makes biotics less strong again, and you kill all of your targets with guns instead of strong biotics.

The tactical hit CAN be done with instant powers.

I think the profectile biotics are much less of a problem compared to the global cooldown. It slows everything down when compared to ME1, where each individual power had it's own cooldown. In ME2 not only do the powers share a global cooldown, it also applies to tech powers and class-specific powers all at once.... which is bad.

[D.Kain]

MELTOR13 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

would you like to please explain how you instantly curve things? because I would love to hear this.

All the same, just instant? When a red target marker apears on the target ( as with regular projectiles ) your power hits the target instantely from the angle that depends on the angle of your mouse to the target.

That would kill biotic gameplay on the 360. You'd have to pause just about every time you'd want to fire off a biotic power in order to get it in the right spot. As of right now, it's infinitely easier to just get in a general area and fire it off. 

I'm not familiar with 360 gamempaly. But what's the problem of doing an instant in a general area? It would all work the same really, just imagine that the projectile is invisible and flies 1000X as fast, but acts all the same.

[Reptillius]

D.Kain wrote...

@Reptillius

I can still shoot my target in ME2, while my biotics fly, so it means that it's not only about the animation.

Making biotics fast phased is actually another bad idea, because it makes biotics less strong again, and you kill all of your targets with guns instead of strong biotics.

The tactical hit CAN be done with instant powers.

Wrong. The tactical hit cannot be done with instant powers. They cannot see through or around walls and would just explode uselessly against cover. If you don't believe me. Look at ME1 and all the time that happens. Now in ME1 some of that was mitigated because some of the cover could be knocked over and destroyed...  Thus still hitting your enemy. However. Much of it also could not and many powers exploded uselessly against walls if the instant collision system was even a little misaligned.

Also with an instant cast there is only one directionality... that of from you to them.  There is no ability to be standing in front of them. Them behind a box and you actually knock them to the side out from behind that box.  With the ability to throw projectiles instead there is.

Instant Cast is a poor system for combat.  The speed could be increased ot projectiles yes... and they have been. Biotics were mentioned specifically for this fact in a couple of the demo's earlier demos... However it gives us more capability than the instant cast system ever could.

[D.Kain]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

@Reptillius

I can still shoot my target in ME2, while my biotics fly, so it means that it's not only about the animation.

Making biotics fast phased is actually another bad idea, because it makes biotics less strong again, and you kill all of your targets with guns instead of strong biotics.

The tactical hit CAN be done with instant powers.

I think the profectile biotics are much less of a problem compared to the global cooldown. It slows everything down when compared to ME1, where each individual power had it's own cooldown. In ME2 not only do the powers share a global cooldown, it also applies to tech powers and class-specific powers all at once.... which is bad.

I agree with you on that. But that is not really a biotic problem, it's the same for ALL classes.

[MELTOR13]

D.Kain wrote...

I'm not familiar with 360 gamempaly. But what's the problem of doing an instant in a general area? It would all work the same really, just imagine that the projectile is invisible and flies 1000X as fast, but acts all the same.

Instant powers are easy. 

But the way you described it, you would have to aim to a specific point around the target that you would like your instant biotic power to hit (in order to get the 'curve' effect'), which would be terribly difficult to do on the fly for a 360 player. 

[D.Kain]

Reptillius wrote...


Wrong. The tactical hit cannot be done with instant powers. They cannot see through or around walls and would just explode uselessly against cover. If you don't believe me. Look at ME1 and all the time that happens. Now in ME1 some of that was mitigated because some of the cover could be knocked over and destroyed...  Thus still hitting your enemy. However. Much of it also could not and many powers exploded uselessly against walls if the instant collision system was even a little misaligned.

Also with an instant cast there is only one directionality... that of from you to them.  There is no ability to be standing in front of them. Them behind a box and you actually knock them to the side out from behind that box.  With the ability to throw projectiles instead there is.

Instant Cast is a poor system for combat.  The speed could be increased ot projectiles yes... and they have been. Biotics were mentioned specifically for this fact in a couple of the demo's earlier demos... However it gives us more capability than the instant cast system ever could.

Read the post that is right above yours. That's how the tactical hit is done with instant cast. I wasn't asking for ME1 powers, I like the curve.

[D.Kain]

MELTOR13 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

I'm not familiar with 360 gamempaly. But what's the problem of doing an instant in a general area? It would all work the same really, just imagine that the projectile is invisible and flies 1000X as fast, but acts all the same.

Instant powers are easy. 

But the way you described it, you would have to aim to a specific point around the target that you would like your instant biotic power to hit (in order to get the 'curve' effect'), which would be terribly difficult to do on the fly for a 360 player. 

Do powers curve themselves on 360 when you direct your look straight at the enemy?

[el master pr]

In gameplay instant-effect biotic powers suck and projectile biotics FTW. So no, biotics don't suck.

This is the same as with the inventory, heavy weapons, health bar, etc., in that everything turns out to be personal preference. So if you think biotic powers suck, well that's your opinion, and I respect it, but don't come asking such a thing because you know people will differ from you.

[Reptillius]

D.Kain wrote...

Reptillius wrote...


Wrong. The tactical hit cannot be done with instant powers. They cannot see through or around walls and would just explode uselessly against cover. If you don't believe me. Look at ME1 and all the time that happens. Now in ME1 some of that was mitigated because some of the cover could be knocked over and destroyed...  Thus still hitting your enemy. However. Much of it also could not and many powers exploded uselessly against walls if the instant collision system was even a little misaligned.

Also with an instant cast there is only one directionality... that of from you to them.  There is no ability to be standing in front of them. Them behind a box and you actually knock them to the side out from behind that box.  With the ability to throw projectiles instead there is.

Instant Cast is a poor system for combat.  The speed could be increased ot projectiles yes... and they have been. Biotics were mentioned specifically for this fact in a couple of the demo's earlier demos... However it gives us more capability than the instant cast system ever could.

Read the post that is right above yours. That's how the tactical hit is done with instant cast. I wasn't asking for ME1 powers, I like the curve.

instant does not have a curve. it has no travel time. it hits a specific point out in front of you.  And while to curve it you don't aim necessarily right at the enemy you do have to be facing in their general direction. How much depends on a few factors.

[D.Kain]

el master pr wrote...

In gameplay instant-effect biotic powers suck and projectile biotics FTW. So no, biotics don't suck.

This is the same as with the inventory, heavy weapons, health bar, etc., in that everything turns out to be personal preference. So if you think biotic powers suck, well that's your opinion, and I respect it, but don't come asking such a thing because you know people will differ from you.

Yes, I also respect other peoples opinion. But the ''Weaker biotics are better than stronger biotics'' is a bit of a mistery opinion for me. Instant means = save time = stronger biotics.

[D.Kain]

Reptillius wrote...

instant does not have a curve. it has no travel time. it hits a specific point out in front of you.  And while to curve it you don't aim necessarily right at the enemy you do have to be facing in their general direction. How much depends on a few factors.

It doesn't have a travel time but it hits the target from and angle that depends on your target angle. You don't have to aim directly at the enemy with instant powers too. 

[Therefore_I_Am]

Since playing ME2 after ME1, I still think to this day they shouldve stuck with instant cast biotics w/ individual cooldowns instead of the global cooldown we have now. Global cooldown takes so much fun out of the adept class...

[Fixers0]

Here's why:

Very cheap, lame, boring and generic purple balls = Mainstream gamers know what's happening .

[D.Kain]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

Since playing ME2 after ME1, I still think to this day they shouldve stuck with instant cast biotics w/ individual cooldowns instead of the global cooldown we have now. Global cooldown takes so much fun out of the adept class...

Yes, It takes a lot of fun out of all the classes. 

[D.Kain]

Fixers0 wrote...

Here's why:

Very cheap, lame, boring and generic purple balls = Mainstream gamers know what's happening .

Lol.  

[Reptillius]

D.Kain wrote...

el master pr wrote...

In gameplay instant-effect biotic powers suck and projectile biotics FTW. So no, biotics don't suck.

This is the same as with the inventory, heavy weapons, health bar, etc., in that everything turns out to be personal preference. So if you think biotic powers suck, well that's your opinion, and I respect it, but don't come asking such a thing because you know people will differ from you.

Yes, I also respect other peoples opinion. But the ''Weaker biotics are better than stronger biotics'' is a bit of a mistery opinion for me. Instant means = save time = stronger biotics.

Faster does not mean better or stronger... just means faster.  Strength and speed often are not the same thing. Though they can compliment each other in a good system.

[Fixers0]

D.Kain wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Here's why:

Very cheap, lame, boring and generic purple balls = Mainstream gamers know what's happening .

Lol.  

I know, it sad but very hard truth Bioware has embraced.

[D.Kain]

Reptillius wrote...

Faster does not mean better or stronger... just means faster.  Strength and speed often are not the same thing. Though they can compliment each other in a good system.

Faster means hit enemies faster, which means enemies have less firing time or less life time, which means less enemies firing at you for the same period of time.

[vader da slayer]

D.Kain wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Uh, maybe you shouldn't be in the open? That might help. 

xXljoshlXx wrote...

Why are you not in cover...

Because I am a vangaurd? Or because I like moving around.

so you just admitted to doing the one thing you dont do as a vangaurd out of cover, use something other than charge.

[D.Kain]

Fixers0 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Here's why:

Very cheap, lame, boring and generic purple balls = Mainstream gamers know what's happening .

Lol.  

I know, it sad but very hard truth Bioware has embraced.

I actually remember being surprised when I first played ME1. I didn't understand at first why my biotics sometimes did damage and sometimes didn't, but then I got it and loved it, it was something new and interesting. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 19 août 2011 - 07:19 .

[SojournerN7]

I think all offensive biotics should be 'thrown' instead of instant. Reave should work like Pull. On the defensive for a biotic attack, I'm sure people would prefer the time to jump behind cover rather than an instant cast.

[D.Kain]

Sojourner83 wrote...

I think all offensive biotics should be 'thrown' instead of instant. Reave should work like Pull. On the defensive for a biotic attack, I'm sure people would prefer the time to jump behind cover rather than an instant cast.

Yes the time for enemies to jump behind cover or to shoot at you. Actually powers being thrown is even against mass effect lore, it's just a gameplay thing.

[Fixers0]

D.Kain wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Here's why:

Very cheap, lame, boring and generic purple balls = Mainstream gamers know what's happening .

Lol.  

I know, it sad but very hard truth Bioware has embraced.

I actually remember being surprised when I first played ME1. I didn't understand at first why my biotics sometimes did damage and sometimes didn't, but then I got it and loved it, it was something new and interesting. 

True, Biotic's in Mass Effect 1 were somtimes confusing and require more skill to use, But that also gave it it's own charm and unique feeling.

Having said that, it's actually quite similiar how the retconned the weapon effects and how they operate, In Mass effect 1, Shots instantly hit their targer, you could just see the muzzleflash, air distortion and the impact of the shot, there even is a very neat codex entry explaying in detail how shots instantly hit their target through the usage of Mass accelerators within the weapon.

But the Mass Effect 2 throws all this in the dumpster and all the sudden weapon now use generic glowing tiny blue projectiles from which i can clearly see the pattern while firing. 

Modifié par Fixers0, 19 août 2011 - 07:45 .

[Brand New]

After the first game they ruined biotics. You can't do anything. Biotics don't deal with armor. Kinetic barriers need a certain speed to be directed at them(physical object) & armor does nothing. It makes no sense for biotics to have no effect on any type of target aside from barriers which is another biotic field which basically negates and opposing energy field.

In the ME universe biotics are dangerous as hell, possibly the most intimidating thing, yet in game they are a joke.

[D.Kain]

Fixers0 wrote...

True, Biotic's in Mass Effect 1 were somtimes confusing and require more skill to use, But that also gave it it's own charm and unique feeling.

Having said that, it's actually quite similiar how the retconned the weapon effects and how they operate, In Mass effect 1, Shots instantly hit their targer, you could just see the muzzleflash, air distortion and the impact of the shot, there even is a very neat codex entry explaying in detail how shots instantly hit their target through the usage of Mass accelerators within the weapon.

But the Mass Effect 2 throws all this in the dumpster and all the sudden weapon now use generic glowing tiny blue projectiles from which i can clearly see the pattern while firing. 

If it's not broken, fix it until it is. 

Brand New wrote...

After the first game they ruined biotics. You can't do anything. Biotics don't deal with armor. Kinetic barriers need a certain speed to be directed at them(physical object) & armor does nothing. It makes no sense for biotics to have no effect on any type of target aside from barriers which is another biotic field which basically negates and opposing energy field.

In the ME universe biotics are dangerous as hell, possibly the most intimidating thing, yet in game they are a joke.

Agreed.