371 réponses à ce sujet

[Kilshrek]

All this "talk" of bringing the "best" of both games smells like a rat to me. ME 3 appears to have next to nothing from ME, I don't see DA 3 having much to do with DAO.

As it is DAO appears to be the boogeyman, where 76.57456%(Made up stat, of course) gamers can't get past Ostagar because :
1) Combat was too slow
2) Story was too slow
3) Dialogue selection was too slow
4) *Insert a negative comment involving slow*
5) Generic this and that, oh y'know, it looks like everything else out there. Where exactly? You probably wouldn't know where.

Whereas DA 2 has :
1) Awesome. :yay:

Why change a winning formula, I say.

[IanPolaris]

Filament wrote...

It's easy to imagine practical middle grounds between the two systems in various instances. If you have no imagination or aren't willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, how about just ignoring it until they do bring more concrete information to the table as they claim they will eventually, rather than judging already that they're full of **** and ****ing and moaning based on nothing at all?

Because I trust bioware about as far as I can toss them at this point, and I am far from alone.

-Polaris

[Kilshrek]

Filament wrote...

It's easy to imagine practical middle grounds between the two systems in various instances. If you have no imagination or aren't willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, how about just ignoring it until they do bring more concrete information to the table as they claim they will eventually, rather than judging already that they're full of **** and ****ing and moaning based on nothing at all?

Extrapolating? Not that hard to do. I'm always willing to give a house like Bioware the benefit of the doubt, but ME 2 and DA 2 haven't exactly done a great deal to inspire me RPG wise.

Like I said, I'm merely extending what I've seen from recent releases. ME 2 pulled it off better than DA 2, but I suspect that continuing the story of Shepard had much to do with papering over the fact that much of ME 2 was spent on "trivial" matters like making sure your squaddies are focused on a mission they were hand picked to perform in the first place.

I suppose in this case my imagination is working to my detriment, because it's busy working up scenarios where instant gratification action takes the wheel. Of course I'd like to hear these practical middle grounds you're suggesting, so's I can squash some of those persistent thoughts.

[Everwarden]

Filament wrote...
 Why are you still here?

Being an anti-fan is actually quite fun. You should try it.

Though in all seriousness, I do hope that Bioware learned a good lesson from their mistakes in Dragon Age 2. I'll buy Dragon Age 3 if the problems are gone... and if not, I won't. 

[furryrage59]

Kilshrek wrote...

All this "talk" of bringing the "best" of both games smells like a rat to me. ME 3 appears to have next to nothing from ME, I don't see DA 3 having much to do with DAO.

As it is DAO appears to be the boogeyman, where 76.57456%(Made up stat, of course) gamers can't get past Ostagar because :
1) Combat was too slow
2) Story was too slow
3) Dialogue selection was too slow
4) *Insert a negative comment involving slow*
5) Generic this and that, oh y'know, it looks like everything else out there. Where exactly? You probably wouldn't know where.

Whereas DA 2 has :
1) Awesome. :yay:

Why change a winning formula, I say.

I'm curious about how they compile there stats for the ostagar thing. I don't know anyone whos quit the game because of Ostagar, in fact i don't recall anyone i know not liking it. Statistically (sp), out of the 20 odd friends irl i know who play it, some of them should have rage quit it or whatever at the Ostagar point.

But i know plenty of people who have made characters, started and then deleted it because they were unhappy with the characters aesthetics or skill deployment.. I've done that myself with probably.......10 characters. Didn't mean i quit before Ostagar because i didn't like it.

I don't trust raw numbers like that out of context.

Modifié par furryrage59, 21 août 2011 - 08:18 .

[devSin]

They gather gameplay data (if you select the feedback option). I think the example they use is data like dying in a certain area (so they can tell if there's an area that's killing a lot of players).

It's supposed to be anonymous, so I don't think they can tell that "furryrage59" started 10 characters and dropped most of them, but there's no knowing how much they can actually track (they probably have data on each of those 10 characters and how far they got, but I'm not sure if they could link them).

As long as they somehow can link them (even though they can't connect them to a particular player), then it makes the data relevant (as long as too many people don't disable that option; hopefully they have numbers on how many play without sending feedback).

Sylvianus wrote...

Except that, choices and the origins, I don't see at all broadly what they could bring from dao. 
Obviously they do not want to go back. DA2 will remain mainly the base for the other sequels. I'm almost sure they will keep the wheel, the voiced protagonist too, etc etc.

But this is what they've said all along.

I can understand not liking it, but it shouldn't come as a surprise. You never really should have been expecting a drastic change in direction--they've been very straightforward that DA2 is the foundation for what they want to do in the future, from the first interviews with Mike after release through Fernando's Q&A in Germany.

They're hoping to improve upon what they delivered with DA2 (for DA3 and beyond). They're not planning to change it.

Modifié par devSin, 21 août 2011 - 09:14 .

[FieryDove]

devSin wrote...

As long as they somehow can link them (even though they can't connect them to a particular player), then it makes the data relevant (as long as too many people don't disable that option; hopefully they have numbers on how many play without sending feedback).

DA2 tries to stay connected and gathers data regardless of what you select.

There are also the achivement/trophy data collecting. There was a link a long time ago with Orgins and DA2 only half of the people completed the game. I have no idea how that translates in the grand scheme of things.

To topic:
Since we don't know what *best* is according to the developers opinion this will remain a mystery I suppose until we see DA3.

[Jayce]

I'm not holding my breath tbh.

Stand by for some frankly unoriginal personal opinion!

I liked Origins but found the skill trees clunky and the story too cliche.

I liked DAII, but found Hawke to be far too much at the mercy of events, The recycling of maps was frankly unforgivable and immersion breaking, the item rating system counter intuitive and combat far too over the top. (Devs; if I wanted to play a beat em up, I'D GO PLAY A BEAT EM UP. Not an RPG! )

Give us Origins' Warrior animations with DAII's Mage animations and skill tree, I'll be extremely happy, but for god sake, tone the riddiculous gore and finishing moves down!

Modifié par Jayce F, 21 août 2011 - 09:33 .

[Vicious]

I despised DA2 when it came out. Changed my opinion after re-playing it recently. Good game, but not up to Bioware's quality... less the faults of the game mechanics and more the fault that the whole thing was pretty rushed and the past-tense story really took you out of it... not much you did mattered, unlike say DA:O.

[Herr Uhl]

Filament wrote...

Kilshrek wrote...

I suppose in this case my imagination is working to my detriment, because it's busy working up scenarios where instant gratification action takes the wheel. Of course I'd like to hear these practical middle grounds you're suggesting, so's I can squash some of those persistent thoughts.

I'd like to hope one thing they're doing is making companion armor customizable again, with unique (but swappable) outfits like Morrigan's, but upgrade-able like DA2's.

I think a full-text option in the menu would be a nice thing to implement for people who hate the voice/paraphrasing.

Some of the more hyper combat elements could stand to be toned down a bit without losing the "speed" of DA2's combat.

Just to name a few...

I'd very much like a full-text option for conversations. It is unlikely though. The rest seem plausible following complaints about them.

xkg wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

http://twitter.com/#...557791464800257

Notch has got the right idea.

This guy really know what 'best' means 

You should wait until he has released at least two games until you call him Messiah.

[Everwarden]

furryrage59 wrote...
But i know plenty of people who have made characters, started and then deleted it because they were unhappy with the characters aesthetics or skill deployment.. I've done that myself with probably.......10 characters. Didn't mean i quit before Ostagar because i didn't like it.

I don't trust raw numbers like that out of context.

I suspect that's what happened, too. Honestly, I've rolled far, far more characters than I've finished the game with, that's a large part of the fun of an RPG, rerolling. 

[Nerevar-as]

furryrage59 wrote...


I'm curious about how they compile there stats for the ostagar thing. I don't know anyone whos quit the game because of Ostagar, in fact i don't recall anyone i know not liking it. Statistically (sp), out of the 20 odd friends irl i know who play it, some of them should have rage quit it or whatever at the Ostagar point.

But i know plenty of people who have made characters, started and then deleted it because they were unhappy with the characters aesthetics or skill deployment.. I've done that myself with probably.......10 characters. Didn't mean i quit before Ostagar because i didn't like it.

I don't trust raw numbers like that out of context.

There´s also that Ostagar is the point the Origins end. I bet lots of people played all origins but didn´t follow after ending the origin itself.

I also have created far more characters than I´ve finished, or plan to finish.

[FieryDove]

Everwarden wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...
But i know plenty of people who have made characters, started and then deleted it because they were unhappy with the characters aesthetics or skill deployment.. I've done that myself with probably.......10 characters. Didn't mean i quit before Ostagar because i didn't like it.

I don't trust raw numbers like that out of context.

I suspect that's what happened, too. Honestly, I've rolled far, far more characters than I've finished the game with, that's a large part of the fun of an RPG, rerolling. 

A magic mirror would have so helped DAO with some of that.

[Yrkoon]

“What we need to do as developers is take that feedback from both sets of fans to heart and see about marrying that in future games in the Dragon Age franchise. I think that the team has actually got a great plan. I think the team is going to have some things that are going to surprise both sets of fans, both core fans and new fans with a marriage of these… the best from both games, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2. And we look forward more to talking about that in the future.”

I can't believe this thread has reached 9 pages because of  such a generic  Nothing  marketting statement like this one.

Did you guys expect them to say something else?

How about:  

"hey, our next dragon age will  encorporate   only the bad of both games."
"The Next dragon age will be a mixed bag...  some good, some bad, some meh"
"We have no idea what the next Dragon age will be like.   We'll just wing it, and let you know whenever we come up with something"

^Obviously they'll never say this.  Because that would be silly, terrible marketing.


Although, to be fair to the OP, he DID ask us to list what we think is the Good from both games.  And he had to, since the Devs  don't feel like elaborating on this point.   Which makes you wonder:  They say they're going to encorporate the good  qualities from Both games.   But do they even *know* what   those qualities are?

[Melca36]

Kilshrek wrote...

All this "talk" of bringing the "best" of both games smells like a rat to me. ME 3 appears to have next to nothing from ME, I don't see DA 3 having much to do with DAO.

As it is DAO appears to be the boogeyman, where 76.57456%(Made up stat, of course) gamers can't get past Ostagar because :
1) Combat was too slow
2) Story was too slow
3) Dialogue selection was too slow
4) *Insert a negative comment involving slow*
5) Generic this and that, oh y'know, it looks like everything else out there. Where exactly? You probably wouldn't know where.

Whereas DA 2 has :
1) Awesome. :yay:

Why change a winning formula, I say.

Any person who can't get past Ostager is either very lazy or not too bright to begin with.

[aeon_flux1985]

Everwarden wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...
But i know plenty of people who have made characters, started and then deleted it because they were unhappy with the characters aesthetics or skill deployment.. I've done that myself with probably.......10 characters. Didn't mean i quit before Ostagar because i didn't like it.

I don't trust raw numbers like that out of context.

I suspect that's what happened, too. Honestly, I've rolled far, far more characters than I've finished the game with, that's a large part of the fun of an RPG, rerolling.

Oh, god.  Now, I'm paranoid becasue I've spent 90% of my playtime rolling and re-rolling characters for DA:O and DA2.  I've spent a crazy amount of time on both games, but I love to make and re-make characters.  I think my ratio of starting games to ending them is like...500,000 to 5.  LOL.  Still love the games, though, to bits.  I hope they take those stats with a large grain of salt.

On topic...  I liked the original Dragon Age and I liked DA2, as well.  I suspect a lot of the things that I disliked about DA2 (like the recycled maps), though, could have been fixed if the dev team had had more time in development and if there was a working toolset.  As it is, it's kind of useless to complain about DA3 when no one knows anything about it. 

[Yrkoon]

Everwarden wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...
But i know plenty of people who have made characters, started and then deleted it because they were unhappy with the characters aesthetics or skill deployment.. I've done that myself with probably.......10 characters. Didn't mean i quit before Ostagar because i didn't like it.

I don't trust raw numbers like that out of context.

I suspect that's what happened, too. Honestly, I've rolled far, far more characters than I've finished the game with, that's a large part of the fun of an RPG, rerolling. 

Exactly.  And regardless, the point still remains.  They have  metric data with absolutely no context.  This data shows that  almost 50% of players quit before finishing.  Somehow, they've managed to conclude that these people quit because the game's complexity   intimidated them.

I guess they forgot all about the   Game Rental industry, and people having Jobs and family obligations.   And perfectionists like us who trash a character after an hour because his Nose was wrong... or he gave himself  the wrong skill.   And hell, the fact that   quitting a game  a few hours in  is normal  gamer behavior regardless of how good a game is.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 21 août 2011 - 10:30 .

[Vicious]

Any person who can't get past Ostager is either very lazy or not too bright to begin with.

Or maybe they just got bored. Which can happen.

[Icinix]

aeon_flux1985 wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...
But i know plenty of people who have made characters, started and then deleted it because they were unhappy with the characters aesthetics or skill deployment.. I've done that myself with probably.......10 characters. Didn't mean i quit before Ostagar because i didn't like it.

I don't trust raw numbers like that out of context.

I suspect that's what happened, too. Honestly, I've rolled far, far more characters than I've finished the game with, that's a large part of the fun of an RPG, rerolling.

Oh, god.  Now, I'm paranoid becasue I've spent 90% of my playtime rolling and re-rolling characters for DA:O and DA2.  I've spent a crazy amount of time on both games, but I love to make and re-make characters.  I think my ratio of starting games to ending them is like...500,000 to 5.  LOL.  Still love the games, though, to bits.  I hope they take those stats with a large grain of salt.
 

A very, very large grain of salt.

One of the things they said was how disappointed they were with the number of people who didn't complete origins, and the amount of time party members spent naked in the camp.

I dread to think of the dozens of characters I never finished taking through to the end game and how many of those saved games have the party in the starkers so I could manage all the inventory in one place to check out best stats and abilities for my other playthroughs.

Then dread to think if my love of experimenting with the game, and studying every facet of it helped contribute to what DA2 was.

[furryrage59]

aeon_flux1985 wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...
But i know plenty of people who have made characters, started and then deleted it because they were unhappy with the characters aesthetics or skill deployment.. I've done that myself with probably.......10 characters. Didn't mean i quit before Ostagar because i didn't like it.

I don't trust raw numbers like that out of context.

I suspect that's what happened, too. Honestly, I've rolled far, far more characters than I've finished the game with, that's a large part of the fun of an RPG, rerolling.

Oh, god.  Now, I'm paranoid becasue I've spent 90% of my playtime rolling and re-rolling characters for DA:O and DA2.  I've spent a crazy amount of time on both games, but I love to make and re-make characters.  I think my ratio of starting games to ending them is like...500,000 to 5.  LOL.  Still love the games, though, to bits.  I hope they take those stats with a large grain of salt.

On topic...  I liked the original Dragon Age and I liked DA2, as well.  I suspect a lot of the things that I disliked about DA2 (like the recycled maps), though, could have been fixed if the dev team had had more time in development and if there was a working toolset.  As it is, it's kind of useless to complain about DA3 when no one knows anything about it. 

So it's all your fault

[dsl08002]

One of my top concerns is that DA3 will only create more quastions than answers, then you won´t keep track on whats happening or what is going to happened.

Then it the problem with the decisions that you made in the other games won´t have a impact or you don´t hear about it in the game, because lets be honest there were no reference whats so ever to origins in DA2. When you play you want to hear that all the choices you made in DAO,DAA,DA2 and the other dlc matter and that several character in DA3 will talk about it.

[aeon_flux1985]

furryrage59 wrote...
So it's all your fault

Hahaha!  Probably. 

In all seriousness, though, I hope the takeaway message from those stats isn't that DA:O was too "complex" (or whatever) for most people.  It has a lot more depth and replay value than DA2, imho.  It's still a game that, after 2 years, I replay all the time (though I should probably just start logging out from now on ).