56 réponses à ce sujet

[Sidac]

 This is a bit of a long shot but something that I can hope about. 

The Galaxy hates Cerberus! You're supposed to, most human govts do, and so does the council. You ever think that Cerberus could use that to their advantage in taking down the reapers though? Think about it. If everyone (even your own kind) hates you, join the reapers and work with them until you learn enough about them to bring them down from the inside. Cerberus would be using their reputation to get an in with the reapers and learn about them and share the info. 

Just my hope. Its a turn at the last minute kind of thing but its what I would do if I had that kind of reputation. 

[BentOrgy]

Sure, if the Reapers for an instant would let Cerberus that close to them, or care enough about them to do anything above telling them where to go and what to do.

Like they did with the Geth, I doubt the Reapers consider a bunch of human extremists anymore important.

[KevShep]

 

BentOrgy wrote...
Why use the Collectors? As I've said in previous threads, there could be any number of reasons, one of which being Bioware not thinking this all the way through. Plus, by your logic, the Reapers wouldn't have repurposed them if they were an anomaly, but would have destroyed them like they had all the others. Which further enhances the notion that the Reapers redesigned the Protheans on purpose. Why? No idea. Zulu once wondered if the Collectors are actually more than just one species, and that the Reapers have been using them all along, so there you go..

The story has been planned out from the begining by the writers. The reapers would HAVE to repurposed the protheans BECAUSE the reapers plan failed and Sovereign spent 200 years or more trying to gain an edge. This means that killing somthing that can benefit the reapers is out of the question. If you notice the reapers were useing EVERYTHING available to them (even things that were NOT of reaper design).

BentOrgy wrote...

You're theorizing that the leftover Protheans somehow miraculously aquired the componants, manpower, and time to creat not just a relay, but a freaking space station in the Galactic Core, an area explicitly stated to be nothing but exploding suns and blackholes; this in itself is highly improbable. Why? Because you also go on to say that the Reapers discovered said survivors, and then indoctrinated them. This means that the Reapers were probabaly still rummaging around the Galaxy, looking for stragglers, which means the most definately would have stumbled upon a group of Protheans (The species they're trying to eradicate.) working on something that massive, and disposed of them. It just doesn't make sense.

If you look at the relay on the opposite side (center of galaxy) you will notice that the relay(O4) is a ONE WAY relay. There is no other relay on the other end. Even when the normandy escapes the blast it does it through FTL and not through a relay. As far as the "stragglers" the surviving protheans would have to have waited untill they went back to dark space to build a relay (hence Omega (the rock not the station) being mined for its Ezo by the protheans for some reason). The reapers DID stumble onto it, Sovereign may have found the relay although since its NOT under reaper control sovereign had to be patient and wait the the protheans to make there move first( hence the protheans coming to earth to study us....ME1 caveman vision).

What does not make sense is that the reapers would use the last race as harvesters to sit around for 50k doing little to nothing when its better to use a current race. Notice that the collectors dont wait untill the invasion to harvest. This means that the reapers are useing everything in the galaxy to benefit them. This does not mean that the collectors are a normal plan by the reapers (keep in mind that sovereign was trying for hundreds of years to fix his problem). 

BentOrgy wrote...
And of course the Collector ship/base don't look like "Reaper design." Because its obviously Prothean handiwork; look at the metal and holographic interfaces used, they're almost identical to the tech on Therum and Ilos. But have we ever seen Reaper technology? ASIDE from the Reapers themselves, the dragon's teeth, and a handful of beacons? (Object Rho, the Arca Monolith etc.) No, we haven't, because the Reapers don't need anything else. They more than likely make use of the tech they find in the Galaxy when they arrive. The Protheans were the only spacefaring race of their time, so the only spaceships lying around were Prothean. Not that big a stretch.

If the collectors are a normal plan for the reapers then it WOULD look more like reaper design. The fact that it looks more prothean then reaper suggests that the reapers were not expecting them to survive. Had the collectors always been there then the collector base/ships would over time look more like reapers design and not like protheans. This also suggest that the collector base is NEW and not originaly reaper made (only repurposed). sovereign was having to improvise for failed plan.

BentOrgy wrote...
"But why do they look so different now?" Simple, the Collector base and Ship have been around for almost/over 50,000 years. That's a hell of a long time, and a hell of a long time for things to break. Which means that the Collectors, with their inferior resources and intellect, had to make patch-jobs whenever and however they could. Its also highly likely that the ship and base were heavily redesigned to accomodate their purpose (A ship to transport an entire species to a base that was converted into a Reaper Factory.).

The collectors are mindless. Only one is smart (general). If things are breaking down all the time then that points to the reapers being just as dumb as Cerberus.This is exactly why you dont use the past cycle as harvesters. Severe Maintanace would be required this is why they would use the current cycle.  Unless you are planing to harvest BEFORE the invasion!  That transport ship was repurposed, If you notice it looks like a gutted remains of what may have been a prothean ship for a different purpose(inside is holo).

BentOrgy wrote...

"But what about Omega 4?" One, the Protheans already created a Relay, the Conduit. It was smaller, sure, but it sure as hell looked like all the others didn't it? The fact that the Omega 4 Relay looks odd does NOT automatically mean that the Protheans desgined it, even more so after my explination on why they probably couldn't have. And two, my experience in gaming (College student studying game art and design.) tells me that Bioware more than likely designed the Omega 4 "'Cause it looked cool," and "It meshed with the dirty vibe we've got in this game." But for a story driven reason? Maybe the Reapers had the Collectors build the relay so that they could move their newly repurposed ship and base to the core for protection, but due to the same reason why the ship and base look so worse for wear, the relay turned out much the same way. Or maybe, because its linked solely to such an unstable location, the quantum effects linking them together caused a sort of erosion effect. Who knows?

I never said that the only reason that I think that it was built by the protheans was because it looked different. I said that looking at all of the things that surround the shadows about the story of ME2 (by looking at some of the things mentioned above) that there is a good chance that  the reason it looks different  is a story driven reason. I have no experience in game design (but Iam thinking about trying it) but in games like COD "cool" would be enough to put something in the game. However ME is no COD, Its a deep story driven game that has a REALLY good reason for everything that is put in the game.

Realisticaly the reapers would use us as the harvesters and repurpose the Omega station as the new factory(speculation- notice that cerberus is going after it in ME3).

BentOrgy wrote...
As for why Cerberus is "apparently" working for the Reapers? There's a treasure trove of reasons I'm sure. For example; We know that the Illusive man (Jack Haper) was affacted by the Arca Monolith, a Reaper beacon that caused all who touched it to turn into husks, but not your average "Durrrrr" husks. These "Arca Husks" retained their intelligence. But that's a side point, the main one being that maybe, after thirty or so years, the Reapers have finally gotten through to Jack's mind. Meaning that, during the events of Mass Effect 2, Cerberus WAS trying to stop the reapers, but now that their head honcho's become a reaper agent, their mission has changed. Again, not that big of a stretch.

I would buy this but there is one thing that I cant shake. TIM and or Cerberus is way to well informed to be anything but ether agents of the shadow broker or the reapers. ME2 story was about Cerberus and shepard over his unusual return and purpose that shepard plays(which is unknown to the player) and NOT about the collectors( its a devs ploy used in deep story driven games). This is why there is no answer to alot of things in ME2, its because it carries over to the next one(ME3). People think that everything about ME2 was answered in ME2 is just dumb. The devs have to pull a ploy in order to keep the suprise( spoilers in ME3) going. ME2 is not the end....ME3 is! 

Modifié par KevShep, 10 septembre 2011 - 07:26 .

[BentOrgy]

I'm going to first say; you haven't said anything that actually refutes what I've said, and have just talked your way into yet another circle, due in no small part to the fact that you're still clinging to certain elements that don't carry the weight you seem to think they do, (Omega being mined by the Protheans, even though its explicitly stated that they "abandoned" that endeavor due to its crust being too thick, among other things you've conveniently left out or twisted around.)

And secondly say; You're right, Mass Effect isn't Call of Duty, but talk to almost (I have to say almost, because while I haven't met one yet, I'm sure they're out there.) any gaming professor, and they'll tell you that you always establish gameplay mechanics first, then art, then story. Reason being that, if you try it the other way around, you run too much of a risk of writing a screenplay rather than a game. So don't be surprised when I say its not all that improbable that a concept artist made the Omega 4 look a certain way, and Casey said "Sure, I like it."

And lastly, I'll say; that I'm done.... Again, at least until you try to concoct another rickety theory based off of preconceptions, misunderstandings, and the wonton need to "See something nobody has ever seen before."

Peace.

[KevShep]

BentOrgy wrote...

I'm going to first say; you haven't said anything that actually refutes what I've said, and have just talked your way into yet another circle, due in no small part to the fact that you're still clinging to certain elements that don't carry the weight you seem to think they do, (Omega being mined by the Protheans, even though its explicitly stated that they "abandoned" that endeavor due to its crust being too thick, among other things you've conveniently left out or twisted around.).

Was not trying to refute what you have said. I was trying to make you see that there are other ways that this can be taken that DOES hold weight. Had the protheans never abandaned the rock there would not have been an Omega station and then there would be nothing to there in ME2 so it was abandanded for story reasons.( hence there would be no Omega in the game). I did not leave anything out as you seem to suggest( I did not "conveniently" leave it out, I did leave it out because it was not needed info as stated above). 

BentOrgy wrote...

And secondly say; You're right, Mass Effect isn't Call of Duty, but talk to almost (I have to say almost, because while I haven't met one yet, I'm sure they're out there.) any gaming professor, and they'll tell you that you always establish gameplay mechanics first, then art, then story. Reason being that, if you try it the other way around, you run too much of a risk of writing a screenplay rather than a game. So don't be surprised when I say its not all that improbable that a concept artist made the Omega 4 look a certain way, and Casey said "Sure, I like it."

Game mechanics are always first in development of one. However... things like the color of the O4 relay are NOT part of  game machanics. I understand what your saying about screen play, Its what happend to Metal Gear! You have to understand that in a story driven game there are things that have to be in there for the game to come together and THATS why I pay attention to everything. It goes beound just game machainics as a concern with ME development at the start.

BentOrgy wrote...


And lastly, I'll say; that I'm done.... Again, at least until you try to concoct another rickety theory based off of preconceptions, misunderstandings, and the wonton need to "See something nobody has ever seen before."

Peace.

 How do you know that ME2 is not a misunderstanding by Shepard(player)?     It is the middle of the series after all. The middle of ANY series leaves the viewer/gamer at the end wide open. All we know of ME2 is what TIM tells us, but can you really trust him? Is what TIM saying true? The Game devs leave us with that question at the end of ME2. 

My "richety" theorys have not been disproven. In fact they do hold weight untill we know for certin. If Iam wrong then I will get a surprise after all. If Iam not then it kind of ruins the surprise that the series is leading up to but I get bragging rights at least. For me its a win win.

[Sidac]

BentOrgy wrote...

Sure, if the Reapers for an instant would let Cerberus that close to them, or care enough about them to do anything above telling them where to go and what to do.

Like they did with the Geth, I doubt the Reapers consider a bunch of human extremists anymore important.

It takes remarkably little to figure people out. Bioware has made the Reapers very simplistic. It wouldnt take much. It only takes a tiny mole to screw things up. 

[BentOrgy]

Sidac wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

Sure, if the Reapers for an instant would let Cerberus that close to them, or care enough about them to do anything above telling them where to go and what to do.

Like they did with the Geth, I doubt the Reapers consider a bunch of human extremists anymore important.

It takes remarkably little to figure people out. Bioware has made the Reapers very simplistic. It wouldnt take much. It only takes a tiny mole to screw things up. 

People, not pseudo God-Machines, and I highly doubt a mere speed-bump like problem could bring down said god-machines so easily, if at all, considering they've been around for at least 37 million years. I also stand by the notion that its highly unlikely that the reapers would let a few whiney humans anywhere near any sort of vital information. You don't need to know much to receive and follow orders.