408 réponses à ce sujet

[Sisterofshane]

marshalleck wrote...

Seboist wrote...

GodWood wrote...

That would require the Council to look out for a species which isn't part of the big 3.

Indeed, a lot of problems we face in ME1-3 are indirectly their fault. They're the second greatest threat to Galactic peace and stability after the Reapers.

Yep. Their complacency and unwillingness to act in anyone's favor but their own allows certain problems such as the geth for example to fester. ME1 would for example be completely different had the Council gone in and ended the Morning War decisively, rather than sitting by and watching billions of quarians be murdered by their iphones.

And that's not to say they should have gone in and killed all the geth either. They could have defended quarians attempting to flee and used ground forces to stop the fighting elsewhere. It still would have turned out badly for the quarians, but not nearly so bad. And it may have headed off the heretic problem entirely.

It was obvious they were looking for the scapegoat in the Geth creation -- easy to just cut the Quarians loose and let them struggle alone as opposed to maybe admit some responsibility in not managing the situation, and letting it get far out of hand.

They then did the same with Saren -- instead of getting their rears in gear and UNIFYING the galaxy against any possible invasion on the scale of and with the advanced technology of the Reapers, they deny everything and officially place the blame solely on Saren and the Geth.

It's pretty obvious (to my Shep at least) that the Status Quo of the Galaxy hasn't been working for some time, and may need to change a bit in order to stand a chance against the Reapers.

*I swear I get a little bit more renegade every day I come on these forums...

[Sisterofshane]

Golden Owl wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

The the f- does everyone put the asari so high on their list? They're friggin' useless against the reapers!

Oh, epic biotics? Big deal! I take massive firepower over biotics anytime any day of the week!

Does the future beyond the Reaper war not count at all?

It does, but that in itself doesn't acount for the overwhelming favor that the Asari are seeing.

Of course, my guess is that people just don't want to give up the opportunity to tap some blue space-*****.

As a woman, thankfully that doesn't play into my considerations and it annoys the hell out of me when people use it as their top consideration...Asari were not at the top of my list and are not a favorite of mine...but when I was questioned on my choices in the 'Which Species Would You Save' thread, with the old if you could only save one race out of the whole, etc..., I then choose Asari, due to the fact that I think they (also the Hanar and Elcor) would be the least destructively aggressive towards eventual new and upcoming evolving species.....the Galactically safest option for the far future.

I really don't know where people get the impression that all Asari are peaceful in nature.  Just that they happen to see inherent value in most things (generally shaped by the fact that they can mate with anything), doesn't mean that they would be less destructive, forceful, or aggressive in expansion.

In fact, there are plenty of asari within both games to suggest that they are willing to go to extreme lengths in order to achieve their long term goals as a species (think Illium -- they pretty much get involved in all types of trade just to compete with the Lawlwess terminus systems).

[SandTrout]

*I swear I get a little bit more renegade every day I come on these forums...

Don't buy into the myth that logic and reason are the sole domain of Renegades. The fact than many of the Paragon fanboys lack the clarity of thought to understand the Renegades does not mean that we must also abandon our reason.

The maniac Paragons believe that self-interest guided by logic and reason are evil, but we know better. We simply have estimated that our chances are better through cooperation with other species than intimidation.

Rational paragons, you are not alone on these boards.

[marshalleck]

The asari don't need to resort to military aggression. The fact that they can live for 1000 years means they can simply sit back and wage long-term culture wars on their competitors. And by every indication in the game that's what they've been doing, and it works exceptionally well for them.

[Brand New]

Sisterofshane wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Seboist wrote...

GodWood wrote...

That would require the Council to look out for a species which isn't part of the big 3.

Indeed, a lot of problems we face in ME1-3 are indirectly their fault. They're the second greatest threat to Galactic peace and stability after the Reapers.

Yep. Their complacency and unwillingness to act in anyone's favor but their own allows certain problems such as the geth for example to fester. ME1 would for example be completely different had the Council gone in and ended the Morning War decisively, rather than sitting by and watching billions of quarians be murdered by their iphones.

And that's not to say they should have gone in and killed all the geth either. They could have defended quarians attempting to flee and used ground forces to stop the fighting elsewhere. It still would have turned out badly for the quarians, but not nearly so bad. And it may have headed off the heretic problem entirely.

It was obvious they were looking for the scapegoat in the Geth creation -- easy to just cut the Quarians loose and let them struggle alone as opposed to maybe admit some responsibility in not managing the situation, and letting it get far out of hand.

They then did the same with Saren -- instead of getting their rears in gear and UNIFYING the galaxy against any possible invasion on the scale of and with the advanced technology of the Reapers, they deny everything and officially place the blame solely on Saren and the Geth.

It's pretty obvious (to my Shep at least) that the Status Quo of the Galaxy hasn't been working for some time, and may need to change a bit in order to stand a chance against the Reapers.

*I swear I get a little bit more renegade every day I come on these forums...

They made an example of the Quarians. It is just how the cookie crumbles. Now no one wants to create a synthetic army and get utterly oblierated by it and get suck flying around in 50k vessels. The Quarians are a great example in the ME universe of a community destroyed, but thriving on their own geneoristy with each other. Pilgramges are probably the greatest idea of all time. Which ever Quarian had that idea needs a golden casket.

[Golden Owl]

marshalleck wrote...

The asari don't need to resort to military aggression. The fact that they can live for 1000 years means they can simply sit back and wage long-term culture wars on their competitors. And by every indication in the game that's what they've been doing, and it works exceptionally well for them.

This is true.

[Golden Owl]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

The the f- does everyone put the asari so high on their list? They're friggin' useless against the reapers!

Oh, epic biotics? Big deal! I take massive firepower over biotics anytime any day of the week!

Does the future beyond the Reaper war not count at all?

It does, but that in itself doesn't acount for the overwhelming favor that the Asari are seeing.

Of course, my guess is that people just don't want to give up the opportunity to tap some blue space-*****.

As a woman, thankfully that doesn't play into my considerations and it annoys the hell out of me when people use it as their top consideration...Asari were not at the top of my list and are not a favorite of mine...but when I was questioned on my choices in the 'Which Species Would You Save' thread, with the old if you could only save one race out of the whole, etc..., I then choose Asari, due to the fact that I think they (also the Hanar and Elcor) would be the least destructively aggressive towards eventual new and upcoming evolving species.....the Galactically safest option for the far future.

I really don't know where people get the impression that all Asari are peaceful in nature.  Just that they happen to see inherent value in most things (generally shaped by the fact that they can mate with anything), doesn't mean that they would be less destructive, forceful, or aggressive in expansion.

In fact, there are plenty of asari within both games to suggest that they are willing to go to extreme lengths in order to achieve their long term goals as a species (think Illium -- they pretty much get involved in all types of trade just to compete with the Lawlwess terminus systems).

Bolded is a big point, which I believe personally does reach beyond their ability to mate with everything and anything...Yes, the Asari are certainly as falliable as the rest of us, though their aggression doesn't seem to be as focussed and dominant as it is among Humans, Turians, Krogan, etc...

[TheEgoRaptor]

In order of Preference I would Save:

1) Humans - Probably the most resourceful of all the species.
2) Taurians - A well organised military species
3) Asari - Hey, when this is all said and done the soldiers need strippers.
4) Salarians - Very smart scientists
5) Quarians - Good with machines.
5) Krogan - Attack Dogs
6) Rachni - Controllable Tyranids much?
7) Drell - Assasins pros
8) Train assasin pros
9) Geth - Legion is a really good FPS Player, 200,009 Sniper Rifle kills FTW
10) Elcor - Boring
11) Vorcha - Good for a sacrifice
12) Volus - Useless little, and fat don't forget the fat part.
13) Batarians - ****s
14 Yargh - There's only one of them in the game......

[Sisterofshane]

SandTrout wrote...

*I swear I get a little bit more renegade every day I come on these forums...

Don't buy into the myth that logic and reason are the sole domain of Renegades. The fact than many of the Paragon fanboys lack the clarity of thought to understand the Renegades does not mean that we must also abandon our reason.

The maniac Paragons believe that self-interest guided by logic and reason are evil, but we know better. We simply have estimated that our chances are better through cooperation with other species than intimidation.

Rational paragons, you are not alone on these boards.

I'm still mostly paragon -- I really feel that there are some situations with which I don't have to sacrifice my morals to achieve my goals ( punching reporters in the face may be  gratifying, but still completely unnecessary), and I totally agree with you that Humanity will "earn no favors" with our fists in the faces of other species (which I heavily believe we will need to call upon these "favors" in order to have a chance at defeating the reapers).

But it's just the ignorance and apathy of the council.  It gets me EVERY TIME.  Usually at the BotC I pick the neutral option, but I'm getting slowly pushed over the line.  Makes me want to go back and click "Let the Council DIE".

[Sisterofshane]

marshalleck wrote...

The asari don't need to resort to military aggression. The fact that they can live for 1000 years means they can simply sit back and wage long-term culture wars on their competitors. And by every indication in the game that's what they've been doing, and it works exceptionally well for them.

Yeah, until they encounter a problem -- like the Rachni.  Or the Krogans (pre-genophage).
Then they just justify elevating a new species in order to "fix" their problems.  And then they have no problem doing it again and again and again.
Eventually it's going to come back and bite them.

[Golden Owl]

Sisterofshane wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

*I swear I get a little bit more renegade every day I come on these forums...

Don't buy into the myth that logic and reason are the sole domain of Renegades. The fact than many of the Paragon fanboys lack the clarity of thought to understand the Renegades does not mean that we must also abandon our reason.

The maniac Paragons believe that self-interest guided by logic and reason are evil, but we know better. We simply have estimated that our chances are better through cooperation with other species than intimidation.

Rational paragons, you are not alone on these boards.

I'm still mostly paragon -- I really feel that there are some situations with which I don't have to sacrifice my morals to achieve my goals ( punching reporters in the face may be  gratifying, but still completely unnecessary), and I totally agree with you that Humanity will "earn no favors" with our fists in the faces of other species (which I heavily believe we will need to call upon these "favors" in order to have a chance at defeating the reapers).

But it's just the ignorance and apathy of the council.  It gets me EVERY TIME.  Usually at the BotC I pick the neutral option, but I'm getting slowly pushed over the line.  Makes me want to go back and click "Let the Council DIE".

The Council is definitely full of sh*t, though an all human council isn't the answer either....we haven't been given a decent Council choice in game as yet...personally I would like to see an All Beings Council.

[Seboist]

Sisterofshane wrote...

*I swear I get a little bit more renegade every day I come on these forums...

There's a renegade in you wanting to be free, let it out! :happy:

[Seboist]

marshalleck wrote...

Seboist wrote...

GodWood wrote...

That would require the Council to look out for a species which isn't part of the big 3.

Indeed, a lot of problems we face in ME1-3 are indirectly their fault. They're the second greatest threat to Galactic peace and stability after the Reapers.

Yep. Their complacency and unwillingness to act in anyone's favor but their own allows certain problems such as the geth for example to fester. ME1 would for example be completely different had the Council gone in and ended the Morning War decisively, rather than sitting by and watching billions of quarians be murdered by their iphones.

And that's not to say they should have gone in and killed all the geth either. They could have defended quarians attempting to flee and used ground forces to stop the fighting elsewhere. It still would have turned out badly for the quarians, but not nearly so bad. And it may have headed off the heretic problem entirely.

Saren/Sovereign wouldn't have been able to recruit Krogan either if the Council didn't keep them sterilized and downtrodden.

[KevShep]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Yeah, until they encounter a problem -- like the Rachni.  Or the Krogans (pre-genophage).
Then they just justify elevating a new species in order to "fix" their problems.  And then they have no problem doing it again and again and again.
Eventually it's going to come back and bite them.

Asari and salarians need the newly discovered Krogans to fight the rachni. Then they need the newly discovered turians to spread the genophage to stop the Krogan. Then they need the newly discovered humans to stop the reapers. What newly discovered race is going to stop us? 

[Sisterofshane]

Golden Owl wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...


I really don't know where people get the impression that all Asari are peaceful in nature.  Just that they happen to see inherent value in most things (generally shaped by the fact that they can mate with anything), doesn't mean that they would be less destructive, forceful, or aggressive in expansion.

In fact, there are plenty of asari within both games to suggest that they are willing to go to extreme lengths in order to achieve their long term goals as a species (think Illium -- they pretty much get involved in all types of trade just to compete with the Lawlwess terminus systems).

Bolded is a big point, which I believe personally does reach beyond their ability to mate with everything and anything...Yes, the Asari are certainly as falliable as the rest of us, though their aggression doesn't seem to be as focussed and dominant as it is among Humans, Turians, Krogan, etc...

Their tendency to be less aggressive stems from the fact that they live longer then other species, and have an "easier" time procreating then the rest of us (no need to impress mates when you can just "think" yourself pregnant).  And even then, it seems that this trait doesn't manifest until they are at least in the matron stage, as most maidens end up becoming mercs (or participating in things that are as equally short-sighted).
Humans, Turians, Salarians, need to act quickly, as we live much shorter lives.  Plans and ideas tend to be lost and forgotten in the few short generations that would make up one Asari lifetime.

I still don't see why they would be considered better or worse for galactic future then any other species.

[SandTrout]

Golden Owl wrote...

The Council is definitely full of sh*t, though an all human council isn't the answer either....we haven't been given a decent Council choice in game as yet...personally I would like to see an All Beings Council.

The Human Empire shall rise from the ashes of the Galactic War as a beacon of enlightened self-interest. No more shall we be subject to the stagnating corruption of the Citadel Council.

[Seboist]

SandTrout wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

The Council is definitely full of sh*t, though an all human council isn't the answer either....we haven't been given a decent Council choice in game as yet...personally I would like to see an All Beings Council.

The Human Empire shall rise from the ashes of the Galactic War as a beacon of enlightened self-interest. No more shall we be subject to the stagnating corruption of the Citadel Council.

TIM and my Shep will rule the Galaxy as Emperor and Empress. :happy:

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Seboist wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

The Council is definitely full of sh*t, though an all human council isn't the answer either....we haven't been given a decent Council choice in game as yet...personally I would like to see an All Beings Council.

The Human Empire shall rise from the ashes of the Galactic War as a beacon of enlightened self-interest. No more shall we be subject to the stagnating corruption of the Citadel Council.

TIM and my Shep will rule the Galaxy as Emperor and Empress. :happy:

Until TIM gets indoctrinated and you have to kill him.After discovering that he gave you scale-itch from his run-in with a varren.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 21 août 2011 - 09:03 .

[Golden Owl]

SandTrout wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

The Council is definitely full of sh*t, though an all human council isn't the answer either....we haven't been given a decent Council choice in game as yet...personally I would like to see an All Beings Council.

The Human Empire shall rise from the ashes of the Galactic War as a beacon of enlightened self-interest. No more shall we be subject to the stagnating corruption of the Citadel Council.

And then just stagnat in our own corruption....it doesn't change the problem with the current situation, only gives it a new face....it's not the answer.

[Golden Owl]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...


I really don't know where people get the impression that all Asari are peaceful in nature.  Just that they happen to see inherent value in most things (generally shaped by the fact that they can mate with anything), doesn't mean that they would be less destructive, forceful, or aggressive in expansion.

In fact, there are plenty of asari within both games to suggest that they are willing to go to extreme lengths in order to achieve their long term goals as a species (think Illium -- they pretty much get involved in all types of trade just to compete with the Lawlwess terminus systems).

Bolded is a big point, which I believe personally does reach beyond their ability to mate with everything and anything...Yes, the Asari are certainly as falliable as the rest of us, though their aggression doesn't seem to be as focussed and dominant as it is among Humans, Turians, Krogan, etc...

Their tendency to be less aggressive stems from the fact that they live longer then other species, and have an "easier" time procreating then the rest of us (no need to impress mates when you can just "think" yourself pregnant).  And even then, it seems that this trait doesn't manifest until they are at least in the matron stage, as most maidens end up becoming mercs (or participating in things that are as equally short-sighted).
Humans, Turians, Salarians, need to act quickly, as we live much shorter lives.  Plans and ideas tend to be lost and forgotten in the few short generations that would make up one Asari lifetime.

I still don't see why they would be considered better or worse for galactic future then any other species.

Very good points Sisterofshane....I concede...I guess what I would be looking for ultimately is a species that in essense does what a small number of older human cultures used to practise....more a question they considered of utmost importance to answer in their major decisions actually..."How will this decision effect 7 generations from now?"...Is a very good question...a stopper and thinker.

[Arijharn]

I'm honestly baffled why people put Asari so far on the top of the list, they aren't going to be any more liked post Reaper war than any other species imo, especially since every species is very likely going to be in their own sense of trouble.

Frankly, if the Asari can't manage to save themselves just a little bit, then I'm not going to throw resources into it.

[Nashiktal]

Really no government stagnates because of the system, its because of the people running it.

A dictator ship can be the best form of government if it has the right ruler, while a democracy can be full of corruption. It can equally be vice versa.

Communism really could be the best form of government, but humans are incabable of achieving true communism.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 21 août 2011 - 09:16 .

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

And then just stagnat in our own corruption....it doesn't change the problem with the current situation, only gives it a new face....it's not the answer.

The Empire is a means to an end, not the end itself.

There will be no stagnation, trust me.

Bolded is true....though I do not think an all Human Council would be in anyway different to the mighty 3 Council...the all Human Council would just be concentrating on what's best ultimatley for humans at the expense of all other species, as the mighty 3 Council concentrates on whats best ultimatley for their species at the expense of all other species....the only difference is the species focus.

[Golden Owl]

Nashiktal wrote...

Really no government stagnates because of the system, its because of the people running it.

A dictator ship can be the best form of government if it has the right ruler, while a democracy can be full of corruption. It can equally be vice versa.

Communism really could be the best form of government, but humans are incabable of achieving true communism.

I concur.....I used 'stagnat' due to the original posters use of the word....but this statement I 100% agree with.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 21 août 2011 - 09:23 .