408 réponses à ce sujet

[Arppis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Bolded is true....though I do not think an all Human Council would be in anyway different to the mighty 3 Council...the all Human Council would just be concentrating on what's best ultimatley for humans at the expense of all other species, as the mighty 3 Council concentrates on whats best ultimatley for their species at the expense of all other species....the only difference is the species focus.

Try and look at it like this: under the old Council three races combined their efforts to hold down all others.

Under the human Council humanity will rule itself and the other races will be left in equal standing compared to it, more equal with eachother.

That means they'll each have greater influence on the weaker human Council than they ever did on the old triumvirate.

Yep, they will have common enemy. That should unite the races!

[medcsu]

MrFob wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

@Sisterofshane,

Note that I placed 3 of the weakest nations at the top of my list. Humans are my number 1 priority, always, and those species pose the least threat to humanity, and would actually probably be amenable to joining us as a client species.

This is pretty much what I'd do. I'd want to save the species that are the least competitive with humanity and can more easily be influenced/controlled in the aftermath.

That means the asari, turians, salarians, and batarians are at the bottom of my list when it comes to priority followed by the krogan. I really don't consider the vorcha much of a threat because they aren't capable of space travel on their own.

So I'd prioritize preserving the quarians, elcor, hanar, drell, volus, and any other "lesser" races.

Of-course this all depends a bit on circumstance. I want to save Earth above all else and if the best way to do that is to save the big three and others then I'll do it.

Do I understand this correctly?
You imply that if you can sacrifice the "big three" (and the batarians and Krogans) you would? Even if you had a chance to save them?

Wow, If this is the case, I really hope you play a renegade Shepard. You propose to be a bystander to genocide on a massive scale for the possibility of a benefit for humanity. You must love TIM.

Hell, I would too. Get rid of them all after we use them as much as possible, then let humanity rule the galaxy and beyond.

[Nashiktal]

Saphra Deden wrote...

 triumvirate.

I love that word. Good things always happen when that word is used.

[SandTrout]

Arppis wrote...

Yep, they will have common enemy. That should unite the races!

Not quite. It is more to the point that they would have an easier time leveraging a Human Council than an Asari/Turian/Salarian/Human council. They would have only one primary species to offer something to, not 3 or 4.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Bolded is true....though I do not think an all Human Council would be in anyway different to the mighty 3 Council...the all Human Council would just be concentrating on what's best ultimatley for humans at the expense of all other species, as the mighty 3 Council concentrates on whats best ultimatley for their species at the expense of all other species....the only difference is the species focus.

Try and look at it like this: under the old Council three races combined their efforts to hold down all others.

Under the human Council humanity will rule itself and the other races will be left in equal standing compared to it, more equal with eachother.

That means they'll each have greater influence on the weaker human Council than they ever did on the old triumvirate.

If this were the ultimate outcome Saphra...I would be 100% behind it...at least as a good building block also  to an eventual All Beings Council no matter how far into the future...In a situation like this though, I would not want to see an All Beings Council come into development over night, as it would just disrupt a promising system and do more harm than good to the stabilty of the Galaxy...a slow formation over extended time under a strict benevolent (but not sold out) system.

[SandTrout]

under a strict benevolent (but not sold out) system.

Benevolence is when you have something that cannot be taken by force, or can threaten counter-force in order to not make it worth-while.

[medcsu]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Yep, they will have common enemy. That should unite the races!

We'll use their desperation to play them against each other. It's easier to work with the human Council than to fight agaisnt it. The lesser races will have plenty of incentive to do just that because if anything the Big Three being cast down has elevated the lesser races' position in the hierarchy.

We'll balance the system so that all the races compete with one another for our favor, just like the asari did with the old Council.

By doing this we ensure that we always cast the deciding vote, giving us a degree of control even when we can't act unilaterally, even when we're forced to acquiesce to the demands of other species (which will happen).

I like it. No reason to flounder around with the other races that dont get things done.

[Golden Owl]

SandTrout wrote...

under a strict benevolent (but not sold out) system.

Benevolence is when you have something that cannot be taken by force, or can threaten counter-force in order to not make it worth-while.

??......explain your reasoning please?

[Arppis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Yep, they will have common enemy. That should unite the races!

We'll use their desperation to play them against each other. It's easier to work with the human Council than to fight agaisnt it. The lesser races will have plenty of incentive to do just that because if anything the Big Three being cast down has elevated the lesser races' position in the hierarchy.

We'll balance the system so that all the races compete with one another for our favor, just like the asari did with the old Council.

By doing this we ensure that we always cast the deciding vote, giving us a degree of control even when we can't act unilaterally, even when we're forced to acquiesce to the demands of other species (which will happen).

They already are hostile against humans. Getting council seats and doing just that would push them over the edge and create extreme-elements in their groups.

[medcsu]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Anyway, just to clarify my thoughts.

Under the old system all the races in Citadel space united against the Council amounted to diddly-squat. Humanity might have given them trouble, but it couldn't hold out for long.

Under the new system however all the races against the human Council make for a much more formidable force. In fact, they could surely topple the human Council if they committed to a war. However they won't because even though they could win humans could ensure their victory was Pyrrhic. Nobody would ever commit to such a destructive war because almost everyone would be losing in the process.

Now that only one race sits on the Council all the others have a much heavier pull on it than they did before. The human Council cannot afford to just ignore them the way the old Council could. It will need to be more proactive in addressing their grievances and needs.

In the end I envision this leading to a galaxy composed of much more independent species. The Council will no longer be a monolithic tyrant that stands above the rest with no competitor. Instead it will be peaked only slightly above the others with less influence over their sovereign governments (excluding humanity). An example of this will be the Spectres, who will be fewer in number and with fewer privileges thanks to Udina who has reigned them in.

The Spectres losing power means the other races will have their rights protected to a greater degree.

As it should have been doing anyhow.

[Dave of Canada]

Arppis wrote...

They already are hostile against humans. Getting council seats and doing just that would push them over the edge and create extreme-elements in their groups.

Those already exist, so... nothing would change except humans would be in a stronger position to not be screwed over.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Anyway, just to clarify my thoughts.

Under the old system all the races in Citadel space united against the Council amounted to diddly-squat. Humanity might have given them trouble, but it couldn't hold out for long.

Under the new system however all the races against the human Council make for a much more formidable force. In fact, they could surely topple the human Council if they committed to a war. However they won't because even though they could win humans could ensure their victory was Pyrrhic. Nobody would ever commit to such a destructive war because almost everyone would be losing in the process.

Now that only one race sits on the Council all the others have a much heavier pull on it than they did before. The human Council cannot afford to just ignore them the way the old Council could. It will need to be more proactive in addressing their grievances and needs.

In the end I envision this leading to a galaxy composed of much more independent species. The Council will no longer be a monolithic tyrant that stands above the rest with no competitor. Instead it will be peaked only slightly above the others with less influence over their sovereign governments (excluding humanity). An example of this will be the Spectres, who will be fewer in number and with fewer privileges thanks to Udina who has reigned them in.

The Spectres losing power means the other races will have their rights protected to a greater degree.

I can concede to that...is certainly much better than the big 3 dominance.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 21 août 2011 - 09:56 .

[Nashiktal]

Luc0s wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

The the f- does everyone put the asari so high on their list? They're friggin' useless against the reapers!

Oh, epic biotics? Big deal! I take massive firepower over biotics anytime any day of the week!

Does the future beyond the Reaper war not count at all?

If we don't stop the reapers there won't be any future beyond the reaper war.

Face it, militairy power and expertise is the most important thing now. And the asari seriously lack in that area.

I have to agree here. Politics is a necesarry evil, but one that matters little if the reapers can't be stopped. I agree with saphra of course, but we need to think in terms of survival at the moment.

For all we know, after this is over humanity won't be able to maintain its power anymore.

[Golden Owl]

Luc0s wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

The the f- does everyone put the asari so high on their list? They're friggin' useless against the reapers!

Oh, epic biotics? Big deal! I take massive firepower over biotics anytime any day of the week!

Does the future beyond the Reaper war not count at all?

If we don't stop the reapers there won't be any future beyond the reaper war.

Face it, militairy power and expertise is the most important thing now. And the asari seriously lack in that area.

True and fair point Luc0s....though future beyond the Reaper War does need to be kept in account also.

[SandTrout]

Golden Owl wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

under a strict benevolent (but not sold out) system.

Benevolence is when you have something that cannot be taken by force, or can threaten counter-force in order to not make it worth-while.

??......explain your reasoning please?

I meant Benevolence on the part of anyone else, not your own. I should have made that more clear.

[Arppis]

Luc0s wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

The the f- does everyone put the asari so high on their list? They're friggin' useless against the reapers!

Oh, epic biotics? Big deal! I take massive firepower over biotics anytime any day of the week!

Does the future beyond the Reaper war not count at all?

If we don't stop the reapers there won't be any future beyond the reaper war.

Face it, militairy power and expertise is the most important thing now. And the asari seriously lack in that area.

True and fair point Luc0s....though future beyond the Reaper War does need to be kept in account also.

Yes but if saving the asari would mean you lose more militairy power (to save them) than you gain (by saving them), would you still do it?

If it takes (for example) 500 ships to save the asari and you'll only get 250 asari ships in return to join your fleet, is that a smart deal?

Ofcourse there isn't a point sticking your neck out if there is no advantage in it. But I doubt it will be that black and white decission in the game.

[Golden Owl]

SandTrout wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

under a strict benevolent (but not sold out) system.

Benevolence is when you have something that cannot be taken by force, or can threaten counter-force in order to not make it worth-while.

??......explain your reasoning please?

I meant Benevolence on the part of anyone else, not your own. I should have made that more clear.

Sorry SandTrout...I am still having difficulty understanding your reasoning here.....below is my understanding of benevolence, I am not sure how that fits with your statement.

Maquarie: Australia's National Dictionary

Benevolence: 1. Desire to do good for others; goodwill; charitableness. 2. An act of kindness; charitable gift.

[Errol Dnamyx]

HUMANITY FIRST

I'd rather sacrifice a whole alien species than one human colony.