408 réponses à ce sujet

[MassStorm]

My priority list:

1)Asari
2)Humans
3)Turians
4)Salarians
5)Quarians

The rest can die for me.....the more batarians/vorchas/krogans die the better will be the new galaxy

[Sisterofshane]

Golden Owl wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Anyone that is not putting Humanity at the top of their priority list is a traitor.

Would rather move beyond any Speciest or Patriotic clap trap myself.

Patriotic we could move beyond, but species?  You'd basically be dooming yourself to extinction.  Who really wants to watch the loss of their own culture and history?

I mean, if there is no other choice but to sacrifice Humanity for the continuation of the Galaxy as we know it, so be it, but I'm gonna fight hard enough to make sure that my childrens' chlidren don't live as a second-class, endangered species (you think the Quarians really wanted to raise their children on a Flotilla?)

My list from page one....note humans are not at the bottom:



From priority down:

Turians....A well organized species.

Humans...Despite all the carry on, I like humans.

Asari....A balance to Turian and Human aggression....hopefully wisdom

Drell....Seem a deepish species....handy archives if a great deal is lost in the Reaper war too.

Geth....Would provide a good balance to Government and encourage deeper questioning of our values.

Rachni....Just something so beautiful about their perception....song, colors, etc...

Quarian...If they can reach resolution, could be a valuable member to the Galactic community.

Salarians...Scientific genius's, but need a controlling element...they don't have the wisdom to utilize safely.

Hanar....Quite interesting.

Elcor....Generally harmless.

Volus....Generally harmless.

Batarians....Their similarity to humans grates on us...but I think peace with them is worth working toward.

Krogan....A very dangerous species, they will bite the Galactic community in the *ss again, I don't trust them.

Vorcha....A blight, a dangerous threat if another species organized them.

Yahg....A very dangerous species, much like the Krogan.

LOL, it is a very well thought out list.  I especially like the Hanar as being "quite interesting".  But are you telling me that you would sacrifice every single human being before allowing the Turians to take on losses that would mean the end of their species?  To me, that's what it means to prioritize numerically.  By your list, it would be okay if every single species other then the turians was brought to the population of zero, so long as the number one species on your list (which would be turians) would be guarenteed continued survival.


I don't think that anyone is arguing that the loss of another species wouldn't be a loss to the universe of something special, however.    I for one, see the inherent value of preserving my way of living as a whole before any other species.  Others still argue that there should be some sort of strategem for political dominance of our species by abandoning those species that hold the greatest political significance above or equal to our own.  And then there are some who would choose only to preserve races that provide the greatest strategical advantage against the Reaper Invasion.  As it is a game, it's easy to make decisions devoid of any cultural bias.

[marshalleck]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Well, I, for one, have always had a hard time placing this particular argument in the context of "humanity" as we are the only space faring, intelligent species in the universe right now. If we were living in the Mass Effect universe as it stands, then maybe most of us would have "human" first leanings, but I would still hope that we have evolved enough that there is still tolerance in, and out, of our own species.

Just replace "humanity" with White, Muslim, Christian, Environmentalists, etc. It should be easy to see why so many people take issue with a "______ First" philosophy.

Except it's entirely different. The idea that different "races" of humanity exist isn't exactly born out by what we know of our species. Black, white, Christian, Muslim, environmentalist, whatever, they're all human. 

On the other hand, a human is not a turian. A human is not an asari (and on that note, the product of a human-asari union is 100% asari, not at all human). "Race" within a species, especially coupled with the concept of "purity" or "superiority" is a fallacious notion. When it comes to species from other planets, there are very real biological dividing lines and no matter how egalitarian minded one may be, as a fundamental rule of biology there will always be competition between them.

See, this is what people fail to grasp. When one says they want to ensure their species has a future, and that their children's children can live and thrive in a galaxy of opportunity, it is NOT the same as saying they want to feed all other species to the meat grinder. But some people are so conditioned with this knee-jerk egalitarian attitude that to even give voice to the plainly obvious, innocuous observation "humans are not turians" is treated as virulent, racist, space-****sm.

Modifié par marshalleck, 20 août 2011 - 08:15 .

[Sisterofshane]

Golden Owl wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

@Sisterofshane,

Note that I placed 3 of the weakest nations at the top of my list. Humans are my number 1 priority, always, and those species pose the least threat to humanity, and would actually probably be amenable to joining us as a client species.

The Bottom 3 on my list were the Council species because the pose the greatest obstacle to human expansion, and are least likely to join humanity as either subservient or co-equal status.

However, there will be no species sacrificed on pure basis of wanting to get rid of them (besides the Batarians). All species besides humanity will be subject to triage based on obtainable tactical advantage. Assuming equivalent tactical advantage, however, then my list enters into the picture.

You don't consider the Krogan and organized Vorcha (through another species) a threat?...

A strong, organized Krogan army once saved the galaxy, and the vorcha are looked upon as being litle more then vermin (meaning to most, they are annoying, but not considered to be effectively deadly at this time)

[GodWood]

Everyone except the asari.

[Seboist]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

@Sisterofshane,

Note that I placed 3 of the weakest nations at the top of my list. Humans are my number 1 priority, always, and those species pose the least threat to humanity, and would actually probably be amenable to joining us as a client species.

The Bottom 3 on my list were the Council species because the pose the greatest obstacle to human expansion, and are least likely to join humanity as either subservient or co-equal status.

However, there will be no species sacrificed on pure basis of wanting to get rid of them (besides the Batarians). All species besides humanity will be subject to triage based on obtainable tactical advantage. Assuming equivalent tactical advantage, however, then my list enters into the picture.

You don't consider the Krogan and organized Vorcha (through another species) a threat?...

A strong, organized Krogan army once saved the galaxy, and the vorcha are looked upon as being litle more then vermin (meaning to most, they are annoying, but not considered to be effectively deadly at this time)

The Vorcha will be a force to be reckoned with when they become humanity's "Drell".

Modifié par Seboist, 20 août 2011 - 08:18 .

[Arppis]

I doubt it will be anything that drastic. If there are going to be any major changes about races, they will happen regardless of your choices.

[Sisterofshane]

marshalleck wrote...

See, this is what people fail to grasp. When one says they want to ensure their species has a future, and that their children's children can live and thrive in a galaxy of opportunity, it is NOT the same as saying they want to feed all other species to the meat grinder. But some people are so conditioned with this knee-jerk egalitarian attitude that to even give voice to the plainly obvious, innocuous observation "humans are not turians" is treated as virulent, racist, space-****sm.

Well said, marshalleck.  A political or philosophical point of view (such as racism, religion) is not the same as one that is purely scientific (turians cannot breed to create humans, only humans can).  This is the way I look at it when I put my species first -- I want to be able to continue with my life, have children, have granchildren, and allow them to grow old and do the same.  It's not going to happen if I put my species up to the chopping block.

[Sisterofshane]

Seboist wrote...


The Vorcha will be a force to be reckoned with when they become humanity's "Drell".

Under close human scrutiny, of course.

You can bet that if the Volus ever tried to over turn the Turians, that they would get their ***es handed to them.  I expect no less of the Humans if the Vorcha ever try to one-up us.

[Last Vizard]

LGTX wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

LGTX wrote...

I'd rather be a traitor and do something productive than get my concious satisfyed while billions of innocents die. Not putting emphasis on humanity or anything, just saying that when there's an intergalactic war, we should think strategically and save what's most valuable and prioritize assets for winning and/or surviving the war, not letting racism guide us.

I just can't see how you can solidify your arguments at saving humanity or other races above others without immediate context of the moment of choice, without knowing what will be brought to the table in case of saving one race or another.

If being concerned that your species even has a future in the first place makes one racist, then so be it.

As to the second remark, the meaning is unclear to me. It almost sounds like you're saying you can't make a decision without knowing what the results will be?

I guess yes, that's the worst kind of racism. Though I still don't get where this whole topic came from. Is it about choosing humanity above another race in some pivotal decision? Or what?

Which leads me to the second remark which you didn't understand. Of course you can't know the results, but you will know the immediate context, the pros and cons, all that. Things which diminish morals and racial preferences. If, let's say, the vorcha have developed a superweapon against the Reapers and are holding it on their homeworld (just bear with the sillyness) and the humans are stuck on Earth with 90% population gone and having nothing to offer in the war, and you have to make an ultimate choice on which planet to save, what will you do? THAT'S what I meant. We don't have the immediate context as of yet, so speculating too deep doesn't seem wise.

Fly in, blow super brain Vorcha away take gun to Earth and save the 10%... Population of humanity is already too low compared to other species.

[Golden Owl]

Sisterofshane wrote...


LOL, it is a very well thought out list.  I especially like the Hanar as being "quite interesting".  But are you telling me that you would sacrifice every single human being before allowing the Turians to take on losses that would mean the end of their species?  To me, that's what it means to prioritize numerically.  By your list, it would be okay if every single species other then the turians was brought to the population of zero, so long as the number one species on your list (which would be turians) would be guarenteed continued survival.


I don't think that anyone is arguing that the loss of another species wouldn't be a loss to the universe of something special, however.    I for one, see the inherent value of preserving my way of living as a whole before any other species.  Others still argue that there should be some sort of strategem for political dominance of our species by abandoning those species that hold the greatest political significance above or equal to our own.  And then there are some who would choose only to preserve races that provide the greatest strategical advantage against the Reaper Invasion.  As it is a game, it's easy to make decisions devoid of any cultural bias.

I reckon I should change 'Generally Harmless' to "Mostly Harmless' for the Elcor and Volus...'Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy' reference....

Well if Shep had to sacrifice EVERY species except number 1, I have done something terribly wrong in my games...that would mean go back and play them all again....I'm expecting a possible sacrifice of maybe 1-4 species in ME3.....Species wise, Humans and Turians are pretty much on par for me, the Turians just having had more experience Galactically.....If I REALLY had to choose a single surviving race, my list actually changes...you won't like this, both Turians and Humans are highly aggressive species and will continue as such, if their not fighting others, they will fight among themselves, thats a proven given....and despite my being human myself, from a pure who's best for the Galaxy and eventual new upcoming species perspective, though I am not a great fan of, I would say the Asari, Elcor or Hanar...they are the least likely to devastate the Galaxy if left to their own devices...Though I do love Sheps short speech to Liara when she visits his cabin in LotSB, if he takes the top response to her question as to what his fighting for....I agree with him.

[Golden Owl]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

@Sisterofshane,

Note that I placed 3 of the weakest nations at the top of my list. Humans are my number 1 priority, always, and those species pose the least threat to humanity, and would actually probably be amenable to joining us as a client species.

The Bottom 3 on my list were the Council species because the pose the greatest obstacle to human expansion, and are least likely to join humanity as either subservient or co-equal status.

However, there will be no species sacrificed on pure basis of wanting to get rid of them (besides the Batarians). All species besides humanity will be subject to triage based on obtainable tactical advantage. Assuming equivalent tactical advantage, however, then my list enters into the picture.

You don't consider the Krogan and organized Vorcha (through another species) a threat?...

A strong, organized Krogan army once saved the galaxy, and the vorcha are looked upon as being litle more then vermin (meaning to most, they are annoying, but not considered to be effectively deadly at this time)

...then tried to take over.

[Golden Owl]

Seboist wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

@Sisterofshane,

Note that I placed 3 of the weakest nations at the top of my list. Humans are my number 1 priority, always, and those species pose the least threat to humanity, and would actually probably be amenable to joining us as a client species.

The Bottom 3 on my list were the Council species because the pose the greatest obstacle to human expansion, and are least likely to join humanity as either subservient or co-equal status.

However, there will be no species sacrificed on pure basis of wanting to get rid of them (besides the Batarians). All species besides humanity will be subject to triage based on obtainable tactical advantage. Assuming equivalent tactical advantage, however, then my list enters into the picture.

You don't consider the Krogan and organized Vorcha (through another species) a threat?...

A strong, organized Krogan army once saved the galaxy, and the vorcha are looked upon as being litle more then vermin (meaning to most, they are annoying, but not considered to be effectively deadly at this time)

The Vorcha will be a force to be reckoned with when they become humanity's "Drell".

I wouldn't put it past them to be the dog that bites it's owner though if they are given the opportunity.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Eh,genophage ain't going nowhere,we could always re-do it.

[legion999]

1. Humans
2. Geth
3. Turians
4. Krogan
5. Salarians
6. Hanar
7. Rachni
8. Volus
9. Elcor
10. Asari
11. Quarian
12. Vorcha
13. Space cow
14. Pyjak
15. Keepers
16. Dogs
17. Cats
18. Reapers





10000. Insects on Batarian homeworld


100000. Batarians

[Seboist]

Golden Owl wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

@Sisterofshane,

Note that I placed 3 of the weakest nations at the top of my list. Humans are my number 1 priority, always, and those species pose the least threat to humanity, and would actually probably be amenable to joining us as a client species.

The Bottom 3 on my list were the Council species because the pose the greatest obstacle to human expansion, and are least likely to join humanity as either subservient or co-equal status.

However, there will be no species sacrificed on pure basis of wanting to get rid of them (besides the Batarians). All species besides humanity will be subject to triage based on obtainable tactical advantage. Assuming equivalent tactical advantage, however, then my list enters into the picture.

You don't consider the Krogan and organized Vorcha (through another species) a threat?...

A strong, organized Krogan army once saved the galaxy, and the vorcha are looked upon as being litle more then vermin (meaning to most, they are annoying, but not considered to be effectively deadly at this time)

The Vorcha will be a force to be reckoned with when they become humanity's "Drell".

I wouldn't put it past them to be the dog that bites it's owner though if they are given the opportunity.

Eh, the Vorcha in the Blood Pack are loyal to their Krogan overlords. I don't see why they wouldn't be with humans who would treat them far better.

Vorcha is man's best friend.

[GodWood]

Vorcha uplifting FTW

[SandTrout]

Golden Owl wrote...
You don't consider the Krogan and organized Vorcha (through another species) a threat?...

I do consider the Vorcha a threat if used by another nation, but on their own, not really. They are too short lived and simple-minded to pose much of a threat, but they could prove extremely useful if we manage to become their patron, rather than another species.

The Krogan are not a threat on their own, and we potentially have the Genophage Cure to use as leverage to keep them on a leash if needed. Right now they cannot leverage enough naval forces to pose a significant threat to Humanity, and the Genophage keeps their gross numbers down.

Also, your accusations of 'speciesm' are unfounded, as explained by Marshalleck. I do not believe that humanity is inherently supperior. I just understand that I cannot survive if my species does not survive, and my own prosperity is easier if my species is prosperous.

[Seboist]

GodWood wrote...

Vorcha uplifting FTW

Indeed, the Vorcha will be extremely helpful for search and rescue,reconstruction and defence of human colonies.

They're good people.

[Massadonious1]

Modifié par Massadonious1, 20 août 2011 - 09:51 .

[TobyHasEyes]

marshalleck wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Well, I, for one, have always had a hard time placing this particular argument in the context of "humanity" as we are the only space faring, intelligent species in the universe right now. If we were living in the Mass Effect universe as it stands, then maybe most of us would have "human" first leanings, but I would still hope that we have evolved enough that there is still tolerance in, and out, of our own species.

Just replace "humanity" with White, Muslim, Christian, Environmentalists, etc. It should be easy to see why so many people take issue with a "______ First" philosophy.

Except it's entirely different. The idea that different "races" of humanity exist isn't exactly born out by what we know of our species. Black, white, Christian, Muslim, environmentalist, whatever, they're all human. 

On the other hand, a human is not a turian. A human is not an asari (and on that note, the product of a human-asari union is 100% asari, not at all human). "Race" within a species, especially coupled with the concept of "purity" or "superiority" is a fallacious notion. When it comes to species from other planets, there are very real biological dividing lines and no matter how egalitarian minded one may be, as a fundamental rule of biology there will always be competition between them.

See, this is what people fail to grasp. When one says they want to ensure their species has a future, and that their children's children can live and thrive in a galaxy of opportunity, it is NOT the same as saying they want to feed all other species to the meat grinder. But some people are so conditioned with this knee-jerk egalitarian attitude that to even give voice to the plainly obvious, innocuous observation "humans are not turians" is treated as virulent, racist, space-****sm.

 You are right to say that it is entirely different, but at the same time group selection has played its part in our evolution (and some would argue a very significant part in recent evolutionary history), and group selection is as much a fact as interspecies selection is a fact. That they are facts however, is not an an argument for adopting them as motivations

 Those of us who choose to place equal value in alien species, or perhaps put more value in the continuation of human ideals than human genetics, are not 'going against nature' as nature has no bias one way or another. Natural selection is not a prescriptive rule, its a statement about how things evolve and die

 So I understand that recognising that "humans are not turians" is not the same as racism, but you do also have to explain your motivation / justification for regarding them as less important than you because of that fact, without resorting to claiming that natural selection is on your side

 Myself for example, in the theoretical galaxy with multiple conscious (and all the rest) species, would consider that what I want to see of humanity in the future is not the specific genetics (which personally I don't see as hugely important) but those cultural ideals of respect, equality, co-operation etc. which can (not yet, but could) make selection within a population largely redundant; seeing as these species (asari, salarians, turians etc.) are capable of taking on those ideals (with many holding them themselves) I wouldn't mind if at the end of the day those who survived to take on those ideals had my genetic code or someone elses

[marshalleck]

I never said anything about natural selection, nor claimed to have it "on my side." See this is what I am talking about with the knee-jerk assumptions of racism. Try again.

Oh, I'll also point out that unlike others in this thread, I've not posted a prioritized list of whom to save.

Modifié par marshalleck, 20 août 2011 - 08:59 .

[Barquiel]

My priority list:

1. Asari
2. Volus
3. Humans
4. Elcor
5. Salarians

[TobyHasEyes]

marshalleck wrote...

I never said anything about natural selection. Try again.

 Fundamental rule of biology that there will always be competition between them? If you don't mean natural selection, the passive way in which one species' genetic line can advance beyond anothers and overtake them within that environment due to the advantage it gives them, then presumably you mean some kind of 'by definition species are un-cooperative and value their own species above others'.. which isn't a "fundamental rule of biology" by any means

 Knee jerk accusations of racism? I said it didn't equate to racism  <_<

Modifié par TobyHasEyes, 20 août 2011 - 09:04 .

[Golden Owl]

Seboist wrote...


Eh, the Vorcha in the Blood Pack are loyal to their Krogan overlords. I don't see why they wouldn't be with humans who would treat them far better.

Vorcha is man's best friend.

Can I call my Vorcha 'Spot'? And he rolls over and goes to heel when I command?....