346 réponses à ce sujet

[RagingCyclone]

ipgd wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

I am inclined the only way he could is through Morrigan's ritual, and I can only base this opinion on this:

It does seem unlikely that someone like Flemeth would trust completely in another person to get a job done -- I guess they could say she had some sort of contingency plan in place for Morrigan's failure or something. No matter what they do it'll be pretty cheap, but they'll find a way to do it if they decide they need to. Which I don't think they will at this point, but eh.

True except one thing in that, the endings were either the DR, you die, Alistair dies, or Loghain dies. I don't know how they can retcon that unless to say the Grey Wardens were wrong all along and therefore there are 5 old gods roaming Thedas in one form or another. That to me would seem a pretty cheesy way to get around the need for the DR.

[ipgd]

RagingCyclone wrote...

True except one thing in that, the endings were either the DR, you die, Alistair dies, or Loghain dies. I don't know how they can retcon that unless to say the Grey Wardens were wrong all along and therefore there are 5 old gods roaming Thedas in one form or another. That to me would seem a pretty cheesy way to get around the need for the DR.

They could have the PC/Alistair/Loghain have "died from injuries", have Flemeth come around and ~*harvest the soul from their corpse*~, etc. It'll be cheesy no matter what they do, but they can find a way.

[Ryzaki]

Persephone wrote...

Aw. This brings back memories of our debates.

But back on topic: I for one do NOT want the OGB to be canon. Yet I fail to see how this mess can be solved otherwise. Without creating an entirely different plot for those who refused the DR.

Me neither. Ugh the OGB was just..bleh. ANd if she somehow makes some magical "auto kill" of my Warden and gets it regardless. Just...ugh. It makes the Warden not even trying to attack her just...URGH. That would be 9000x more lame than Leliana's magic ressurection. 

I hope in that "oh her magical spell auto killed the warden." scenario the OBG kills Morrigan during labor. B*tch. 

[Apollo Starflare]

At the very least I would imagine it could be resolved in a side quest style of thing, but that would hardly be satisfying for most anyone.

Hopefully they have just thought up something completley awesome to make it work that we can't guess just yet.

Brockololly wrote...

I'd be all for that too- having
unique content involving the OGB if you went DR route and if you didn't
then certain things are entirely different due to his absence and maybe
how that affected whatever Morrigan is doing. Thats just as potentially
interesting I think- kind of "Its a Wonderful Life" scenario, except
substitute Jimmy Stewart with the OGB[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Definitely, and I would have thought it'd be possible if they are willing to throw enough resources and time at it. But that's the big question - are they willing to for something that, despite still being relevant to the plot, happened in the first game. Unless as I suggested above, that they may have thought up some managable way of handling it. Plus it finds itself in the odd position of being a major event that could have two wildly different routes depending on your import.

Essentially a sidequest wouldn't satisfy, yet making it a major part of the game would require a large branching path for those who chose to import an US Warden. Unless they completely down play the importance of the OGB and make it more about Morrigan and Flemmeth, with the OGB just adding spice to anyone who imported a DR Warden.

Ugh, I'm just going to wait until they give us more of a hint about it. Just hope they pull it off somehow.

[Yuqi]

At worst they could make a retcon of 'the warden' not actually dying,and being magiccly frozen,or soul going into another body.

Or maybe a kill bill situation.Dig yourself out of the grave.

[TEWR]

perhaps an Allan Quatermain from The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen? =P


edit: I'm half-serious, half-joking.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 août 2011 - 02:10 .

[Vicious]

Three options with the OGB.

One: Player character, This means DA3 [or whatever] would HAVE TO HAVE ORIGINS. To accomodate the many games which the OGB simply does not exist.

Two: Teammate. Much more likely to appear as an unlockable teammate, particularly that he is male. Also could be a romance option.

Three: Killed off-screen or on-screen in a lame way. I favor this one the most.

[Ryzaki]

I actually would love if Morrigan had to do that OGB the Warden/Alistair/Loghain dug him/herself out of the grave with a pissed look on his/her face. That would've been an epic cliffhanger.

[Auroras]

I am looking forward to see how they deal with the OGB... although, in honesty, if they kill it, I'll be mad. So, scratch my earlier statement-- I hope they continue to develop the wonderful Morrigan/Warden/OGB/Flemeth plot, with little to no child killing. Or teenager killing. Or adult killing, unless it's Flemeth we'd be slaying.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

Spoiler Alert!!!
OGBs story will end with a cliffhanger

[shai-hulud-lama]

maybe the OGB is needed in some way to resolve the conflict between the mages and the templers, for example Morrigan only wanted the OGB to free the mages from the oppression of the templers. (Although morrigan is rather a selfish person, so maybe she just wanted power)

[Yrkoon]

shai-hulud-lama wrote...

maybe the OGB is needed in some way to resolve the conflict between the mages and the templers, for example Morrigan only wanted the OGB to free the mages from the oppression of the templers. (Although morrigan is rather a selfish person, so maybe she just wanted power)

Yeah, Morrigan's known stance is hardly one  that supports freeing the mages from the templars.  It's the opposite.  In DA:O she repeatedly says that all circle Mages deserve   their leashes.   She views them with such disdain, that it would be completely unbelievable that she'd raise her kid to help them out

I'll go for the Power  angle.  And perhaps even something a bit more specific:  Revenge aginst Flemeth.  In DA2, we see Flemeth already  taking steps against what she perceives as a future plot against her by Morrigan.  It wouldn't be much of a stretch to see  an open war between the three of them.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 21 août 2011 - 09:33 .

[shai-hulud-lama]

Just revenge against Flemet....would be a bit disappointing i think because it doesn't really involve the other big groups ( Circle, Chantry, etc.). The end of DA2 leads to the big conflict between the mages and templers. That's the conflict that needs to be resolved. Why not implement the OGB in this?
But when Bioware decides to make again a personal story like DA2 the conflict between Flemeth, Morrigan and OGB would be a nice choice. Although i'm hoping for a more epic story like in Origins

[shai-hulud-lama]

Vicious wrote...

Three options with the OGB.

One: Player character, This means DA3 [or whatever] would HAVE TO HAVE ORIGINS. To accomodate the many games which the OGB simply does not exist.

Two: Teammate. Much more likely to appear as an unlockable teammate, particularly that he is male. Also could be a romance option.

Three: Killed off-screen or on-screen in a lame way. I favor this one the most.

Option 2 seems unlikely to me because OGB would be a very powerful character. I can't see a reason why he/she should follow the player.
OGB could also be a future antagonist. This would be an opportunity for the Grey Wardens to re-enter the story in a big way.

Modifié par shai-hulud-lama, 21 août 2011 - 12:07 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Already explained in other thread, Sandal is the god baby, with ability to go back in time and having the same as Flemmeths shapeshifting to any form. He chose to take the form of Sandal after he accidently as child went back in time as baby to deep roads where Bodain found him hence why appeared in DAO as grown yet hadn't been born yet aswell as why he is able to take down any amount of darkspawn or enemies on his own and also explains why he appears in form of a dwarf because a dwarf was first to find him aka Bodain so mimicked his race when saw him so would be taken away from deep roads.

Because he didn't know he had power over time and space he doesn't know how to replicate it to redo it early on though may relearn how to it in future of which time he goes back and helps all the main characters from games using his power of going to and from past and future so is always in right place at right time. Thats why the old lady he speak about telling him bad things is Flemmeth speaking to her grandson.

Sandel will be the one who saves the world or dams it in the final title due to his shapeshifting ability like Flemmeths it will allow you to use CC to choose his final form. All the main character Warden, Hawke and whoever else maybe Rhys etc will be his party companions in the final game.

Issue Resolved.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 août 2011 - 02:29 .

[furryrage59]

The OGB story line is absilutely dripping with potential.

They'd be foolish to squander it.. Could easily be added as the part of any game or in symmetry to it, enriching it and also giving some form of conclusion.

Edit - Could easily have the darkspawn involved as they are attracted to them.

Modifié par furryrage59, 21 août 2011 - 01:06 .

[KLUME777]

Brockololly wrote...

*snip*


I just thought, given the way it was presented in Origins, that the DR would be a huge choice that would have huge consequences in the sequel. On the scope of whether your Warden lived or died in Origins, that would affect whether you played as them in a sequel or expack. And I thought that sounded awesome. But then you had Awakening which handwaved away US Wardens with zero story reason. I guess that should have been the first red flag with how BioWare doesn't do the whole consequence thing.

I hated the fact that your US warden was handwaived for Awakening. I nerd-raged so much that i just stopped dead right there in Vigils keep for my US Warden and just stoped playing it, and decided that he died with the Archdemon and that was it.

What i really don't understand though is why didn't they just make the Orlesian Warden as a replacement for the US Warden instead of a default if you don't import? Why not, if you import a dead Warden, it forces you to play the Orlesian? Because, you know, your Warden is dead and all? I never understood why Bioware didn't do that. If the Orlesian is not for this purpose, why include it at all?

[LobselVith8]

IanPolaris wrote...

The problem is the scope of what DAO promises for the OGB. The OGB is supposed to have the best traits of Morrigan and the Warden tied to an untainted soul of an Old God. In short, he's supposed to be an earthshaking figure...a figure of destiny almost from the moment of conception.

The problem is that there are many (even most) DAO endings that don't result in an OGB.

Ergo, my conclusion that I think Bioware has concluded it's probably easier to kill him off and save everyone the grief of trying to reconcile it.

-Polaris

Isn't that going to provoke the same reaction for fans who did the OGB as Dragon Age 2 provoked for fans who purchased Origins and DA2 because they were fans of the traditional, old school RPG format? Nothing good can come from doing something so asinine.

Yrkoon wrote...

Yeah, Morrigan's known stance is hardly one  that supports freeing the mages from the templars.  It's the opposite.  In DA:O she repeatedly says that all circle Mages deserve   their leashes.   She views them with such disdain, that it would be completely unbelievable that she'd raise her kid to help them out

This isn't accurate: Morrigan has no respect for the Circle mages precisely because they do nothing about being under the thumb of the Chantry and the Order of Templars. The fact that the status quo has changed at the end of Dragon Age 2 would likely please her, because they finally stopped being "cattle" and are no longer bending knee to their "masters." As Morrigan argues during "A Broken Circle" after Wynne speaks:

"They allow themselves to be corralled like cattle, mindless. Now their masters have chosen death for them and I say let them have it."

Modifié par LobselVith8, 21 août 2011 - 01:25 .

[KLUME777]

Dave of Canada wrote...

One minor quibble about the Dark Ritual in Dragon Age 2, you've got the three preset histories available for the player: One where somebody survives without any sacrifice and puts his friend on the throne, one where the person sacrifices themselves and put her friend on the throne with a wife, one where the person sacrifices another person and puts somebody on the throne.

Knowing this, which one would the person who's never played the series would pick? I'd feel the one with the gigantic letters with (DEFAULT) written next to it, for multiple reasons. One little flaw with it, though.

They never explained exactly how the Warden survived, therefore people who've jumped into the game with DA2 and played with the Hero of Ferelden backstory don't know anything about the God Baby / Dark Ritual.

From what they'll see, the sacrifices from the other two endings were probably unnecessary. Throwing the God Baby plot on them will only confuse them more.

First, i think your overestimating the amount of new people that came to DA2, as in i think there are far more DAO players than new people to justify catering to the new people.

Second, why should we care what new players think. The new players can go f*** themselves if Bioware has to can a perfectly good storyline just because some new players wouldn't know whats going on. Are you really saying Bioware should sacrifice some good storyline potential because some people decided the third game in a series would be a good time to jump in - because thats like starting The Lord of the Rings with Return of the King. Its just retarded. And a lot of people go back and play the original anyway.

If Bioware can't make a series without completely ignoring plot points from previous installments so as to not confuse new people, then Bioware should go back to making single game franchises. Because their bound to dissapoint.

[jmadsen]

well somebody already said this but i belive it could be handled like the One of many and Okku thing in nwn 2 motb.

or perhaps he will be a companion with the same appearance no matter what but in one game he is simplly a normal human (son of morriganand other if not the warden) and one where he's the old god baby.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

The problem is the scope of what DAO promises for the OGB. The OGB is supposed to have the best traits of Morrigan and the Warden tied to an untainted soul of an Old God. In short, he's supposed to be an earthshaking figure...a figure of destiny almost from the moment of conception.

The problem is that there are many (even most) DAO endings that don't result in an OGB.

Ergo, my conclusion that I think Bioware has concluded it's probably easier to kill him off and save everyone the grief of trying to reconcile it.

-Polaris

Isn't that going to provoke the same reaction for fans who did the OGB as Dragon Age 2 provoked for fans who purchased Origins and DA2 because they were fans of the traditional, old school RPG format? Nothing good can come from doing something so asinine.

Yrkoon wrote...

Yeah, Morrigan's known stance is hardly one  that supports freeing the mages from the templars.  It's the opposite.  In DA:O she repeatedly says that all circle Mages deserve   their leashes.   She views them with such disdain, that it would be completely unbelievable that she'd raise her kid to help them out

This isn't accurate: Morrigan has no respect for the Circle mages precisely because they do nothing about being under the thumb of the Chantry and the Order of Templars. The fact that the status quo has changed at the end of Dragon Age 2 would likely please her, because they finally stopped being "cattle" and are no longer bending knee to their "masters." As Morrigan argues during "A Broken Circle" after Wynne speaks:

"They allow themselves to be corralled like cattle, mindless. Now their masters have chosen death for them and I say let them have it."

Someone said that a Morrigan with high approval can question her beliefs regarding mages, in that she doesn't wish death upon them. Or something.

Don't know if that's true though, as I've never gone to the Circle with Morrigan at high approval to test it.

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Someone said that a Morrigan with high approval can question her beliefs regarding mages, in that she doesn't wish death upon them. Or something.

Don't know if that's true though, as I've never gone to the Circle with Morrigan at high approval to test it.

It's true. The Warden can tell Morrigan that, if things had been different, she could have been a Circle mage, and she said Flemeth said things would always be the way they are, but she questioned if this was so... then she says she doesn't care, telling The Warden to do what he wants to do.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Someone said that a Morrigan with high approval can question her beliefs regarding mages, in that she doesn't wish death upon them. Or something.

Don't know if that's true though, as I've never gone to the Circle with Morrigan at high approval to test it.

It's true. The Warden can tell Morrigan that, if things had been different, she could have been a Circle mage, and she said Flemeth said things would always be the way they are, but she questioned if this was so... then she says she doesn't care, telling The Warden to do what he wants to do.

Huh. I had always chosen that option when I did the Circle first and gotten that response, but I don't consider that her questioning her beliefs. That's more remarking upon what Flemeth told her.

I thought she would actually say something where she wants to save the mages. That's the impression I got when people said she would question her beliefs.

I've been duped! Tricked! Fooled!