346 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Huh. I had always chosen that option when I did the Circle first and gotten that response, but I don't consider that her questioning her beliefs. That's more remarking upon what Flemeth told her.

I thought she would actually say something where she wants to save the mages. That's the impression I got when people said she would question her beliefs.

I've been duped! Tricked! Fooled!

It's more evident that she questions what Flemeth taught her if you know what she says otherwise. Morrigan never says she wants to say the mages, although her perspective towards the Circle mages bending knee to the Chantry makes me wonder how she'd respond to [spoiler].

[Sylvianus]

I just read the twelve pages of this thread. And a thought for Bioware :

Courage and good luck... XD

Modifié par Sylvianus, 21 août 2011 - 06:09 .

[naledgeborn]

@ Ethereal. Ok maybe my comment was a bit vague. She doesn't go "Holy Andraste! Hurry, lets save the mages!" If that's what you understood then sorry I wasn't clear.

Low approval Morrigan will say "f**k this! you want to help these losers? I'm leaving" which she does. Or you might get a steep approval drop.

High approval Morrigan says "Flemeth told me they're losers. Maybe Flemeth was wrong. You want to help them? Sure whatever."

Please excuse the poetic liberties I've taken. Don't feel like looking fo the exact quotes.

[Jumee]

The solution i can think of is:
forget about OGB for sometime (even if we say he exists he is like what 9 years old? by the end of DA 2) give him some time (another 9-12 years) to grow old
create DA 3 with Hawke as PC or someone else, doesnt matter much and solve every other loose end in plot
then create and expansion pack DLC or whatever where the Warden (OGB's father not anyone else) solves DR consequences and then to completely close wardens story the wardens finaly goes for his calling (it will by that time be around 20-25 years after his joining) and dies
this DLC or expansion or whatever can be like Darkspawn Chronicles some sort of a stand-alone which isnt influenced significantly by any  other part AND being set many years after any other parts doesnt influence them aswell and always assumes that DR was made

[Jumee]

OR an easier (even if a bit more stupid way):
PC is morrigans child regardless of DR however if DR was made PC gets a pointless buff or a perk or an item some nonsence like:
Old Gods Power perk giving you minor bonuses depending on your class strengh for wariors dexterity for mages and etc etc
or old gods blood - resistance to whatever
or or or i think everyone got my point
If dark ritual was not made then he doesnt get a perk but being a normal child he can have an item from his mom or whatever

Modifié par Jumee, 23 août 2011 - 02:39 .

[Jonathan Seagull]

Jumee wrote...
forget about OGB for sometime (even if we say he exists he is like what 9 years old? by the end of DA 2)

You know, something really jumped out at me when I recently played through Origins again.  When talking to you about the dark ritual, Morrigan says "Ignoring that but after one night it could barely be called a child… no, it will not be hurt. It will be changed.”

On the one hand, maybe Morrigan is just referring to other changes the Old God's soul will cause in the child.  But I think it's also entirely possible that this "child" was not going to age at a normal rate.  Plus there's the whole Eluvian thing, and we really have no idea whether time in Eluvian Land passes in the same way as other places.

Point being, if the writers chose to, they have a fairly solid basis for SORAS-ing the kid.

Modifié par Jonathan Seagull, 23 août 2011 - 07:26 .

[G00N3R7883]

Difficult to "resolve" without making alot of fans angry. You can't tell players (like me) who didn't perform Morrigan's ritual, that the OGB exists. And you can't tell players who did the ritual, that it never happened. If you resolve it with one line of text in a letter then its a huge anticlimax.

The only thing I can think of that makes sense for everyone is if Ferelden (or wherever) faces a new threat (perhaps Flemeth), and the OGB's destiny was to defeat that threat. Everyone who has the OGB alive has a powerful companion in their party (or potentially as their main character), everyone who doesn't have the OGB can still defeat this new evil, but its just going to be a tougher fight.

I personally would accept that as "okay I made a choice that I thought was right at the time, it turned out I was wrong, now I accept the consequences and just get on with it".

I guess it wouldn't work the other way. I made my choice thinking that the OGB would be the next ultimate evil. If I was right all along, my game would be pretty short (although it would explain why nothing really significant happened in DA2 ...)

Modifié par G00N3R7883, 23 août 2011 - 10:53 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

JimmyTheProthean wrote...

Killing Orisno to make another boss fight DA2 was one of the worst things bioware has ever done !

Fixed.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 23 août 2011 - 11:57 .

[Melyanna]

Personally, I'd rather have any solution, even a crappy one, than no solution at all.
I think it might be impossible to really please everybody, whatever they do, but just ignoring a bit of the story that was so important would be bad.
If they developed the subject with a side quest it would be enough for me and it would be acceptable for those players that refused to take the ritual: the game would be coherent to their choices and they could have aother side quest to make up for it.

[Jumee]

well the whole idea of him aging normaly was made only to try and delay his appearance, becasue i think that DA 3 probably needs to be about mage - templar war; not darkspawn or OGB. And to be honest i was suprised by storyline of DA 2 it looked more like a paralel stand-alone story not a sequel since DA 1 was about darkspawn and blight and i expected part 2 to finish OGB storyline since it is the only thing left (almost every epiloque in DAOA used to point out that blight is trully over so warden commander just dissapears) and since that leaves us only with OGB i thought that what the sequel will focus on, but they started this new storyline (mage-temlar war) without finishing OGB and just made a mess

[Jumee]

and witch hunt - DLC that was supposed to answer our questions was
kinda disspointing since it didnt answer anything it just created more
and thats a mistake bioware made i think they should have either solved
the problem of OGB fully there or atleast make it all very clear/set up
the scene for it to be solved later. Instead they just gave PC a couple
of options without showing any consequences.... again

Modifié par Jumee, 23 août 2011 - 03:59 .

[Jumee]

G00N3R7883 wrote...


The only thing I can think of that makes sense for everyone is if Ferelden (or wherever) faces a new threat (perhaps Flemeth), and the OGB's destiny was to defeat that threat. Everyone who has the OGB alive has a powerful companion in their party (or potentially as their main character), everyone who doesn't have the OGB can still defeat this new evil, but its just going to be a tougher fight.

this could work aswell

Also bioware did say that they might return multiple origins so one of he origins cold be OGB, so if you did DR you choose that origin if you didnt you choose something else, like orlesian warden commander in awakening

Modifié par Jumee, 23 août 2011 - 10:40 .

[element eater]

well ive read this entire thread and i agree that if this isnt going to be done well its better not done.

I think an easy way around including the warden and the child would be to have the child enter in his 20s after all warden would probably be dead by then anyway regardless of the ritual.

i think the idea of flemeth having a backup plan is a good one tbh

one idea i had ...
seeing as fenriyal has massive power maybe he could be some kind of stand in for the ogb for those who didnt do the ritual he could serve the same purpose in the story

[yaw]

Are they going to ret-con out the normal baby that Morrigan has with a romanced male Warden who doesn't perform the ritual?

By the way, where was it ever mentioned that OGN was a boy?

[Harid]

This is not something that can be resolved.

This was a plot thread that only made sense with the Warden, and now, without the warden, it would only be an afterthought in the future of Dragon Age, especially with this Mage Templar War.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

yaw wrote...

By the way, where was it ever mentioned that OGN was a boy?

Witch Hunt.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Maybe Bioware should just create a game with divergent paths depending on whether the Ritual was done or not. Of course, what the writers have in mind for the OGB could mean this is more easily said than done, but a massive game where past choices contribute to a big difference in the world is exactly the sort of thing a lot of us would be pleased to see.

[Harid]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Maybe Bioware should just create a game with divergent paths depending on whether the Ritual was done or not. Of course, what the writers have in mind for the OGB could mean this is more easily said than done, but a massive game where past choices contribute to a big difference in the world is exactly the sort of thing a lot of us would be pleased to see.

It's not Bioware's way, and they will never do it as it goes against their basic tenets in world building.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I think making the DR or OGB universally canon would be one of those things that would make me drop the franchise completely, because it will be the most epic cop out, and destroy the signifgance of perhaps the most critical choice in Origins. Given other choices that have either been ignored or retconned, and been railroaded into singular results, this seems to be the last choice that might have any signifgant impact and difference. Take that away, and importing games because a pointless, futile exercise in attempting diverse and varied playthroughs.

So I hope that Bioware plans on resolving this issue with that in mind. if it can't handle or manage to develop a way to make two different descisions have two very different potential outcomes, then I see no reason I should maintain my interest in their future titles.

[Vicious]

There's only one way to make everyone happy.

Bring back Origins in DA3. I would expect a much smaller number than DA:O, like 2-3 but there.


One origin is the OGB. Unlike the other origins, you are a human male. [which is literally the number one choice of most players anyway.] The other origins are obviously more customizable.

Fans have been asking to play or meet or whatever the OGB since forever. This would appease quite a few people.

Other origins are characters from different walks, drawn into the story through different means like the Heroes of DA:O were each drawn into the story their own way.


The story differences can be minor, as long as they're there. Like the many minor differences Mage Hawke's story is always different from Warrior/Rogue Hawke's storyline.


Bam. Everyone's happy. And if they keep it to only a few [2-3] Origins, Bioware can still utilize the voiced protagonists that they love so much.

Hop to it, Bioware.

Modifié par Vicious, 24 août 2011 - 05:20 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
So I hope that Bioware plans on resolving this issue with that in mind. if it can't handle or manage to develop a way to make two different descisions have two very different potential outcomes, then I see no reason I should maintain my interest in their future titles.

Hypothetically, which would you prefer.
Bioware making both choices irrelevent, and confine the differences in codices, meaningless cameos and maybe an inconsequential sidequest, or canonizing the DR (or finding a way to make so regardless of choice) but taking that path to its fullest potential?

Because honestly, I think what they will come up with is the former.

[Vicious]

Origins in DA3. I'm telling you, it's gonna happen. And the collective fangasm will be huge.

[Harid]

Vicious wrote...

There's only one way to make everyone happy.

Bring back Origins in DA3. I would expect a much smaller number than DA:O, like 2-3 but there.


One origin is the OGB. Unlike the other origins, you are a human male. [which is literally the number one choice of most players anyway.] The other origins are obviously more customizable.

Fans have been asking to play or meet or whatever the OGB since forever. This would appease quite a few people.

Other origins are characters from different walks, drawn into the story through different means like the Heroes of DA:O were each drawn into the story their own way.


The story differences can be minor, as long as they're there. Like the many minor differences Mage Hawke's story is always different from Warrior/Rogue Hawke's storyline.


Bam. Everyone's happy. And if they keep it to only a few [2-3] Origins, Bioware can still utilize the voiced protagonists that they love so much.

Hop to it, Bioware.

Then you will have a situation where one choice is the obvious "canon choice" and the other choices are in general, bull****.

They might as well disregard the whole thing.  Without the Warden there, the plot thread is largely pointless, and there is no way for Bioware to win in this situation.

Besides, DA3 is too soon for the OGB to be a main character.  We should largely still be a few years shy of DA2, so this baby would be something like a teenager.  I don't play WRPGs to play teenagers.  I have 86,397 JRPGs to play if I wish to play a teenager protagonist.

The OGB concept should only be used to indefinately postpone the end of the Blight system in my opinion.

Modifié par Harid, 24 août 2011 - 05:33 .

[Vicious]

Then you will have a situation where one choice is the obvious "canon choice" and the other choices are in general, bull****.

NONSENSE. If you want to talk about canon:

trailer [as canon as you can get] Mage Hawke has special things that are not available to non-Mage Hawke and vice versa. However the game plays just fine with Warrior Hawke and Rogue Hawke, the story is just slightly different.

Ditto for DA:O. Trailer Warden [and in DA2, default Warden] is obviously the Human Noble, but his playthrough in DA:O is no more 'right' than any other Origin.


The idea that the OGB will be some 'ZOMG WOW!' character is what will most likely be swept under the rug. Not the character itself.

Besides, DA3 is too soon for the OGB to be a main character

Agree with you there. But the rest of your post is so filled with vitriol I won't bother addressing it.

[Harid]

Vicious wrote...

Then you will have a situation where one choice is the obvious "canon choice" and the other choices are in general, bull****.

NONSENSE. If you want to talk about canon:

trailer [as canon as you can get] Mage Hawke has special things that are not available to non-Mage Hawke and vice versa. However the game plays just fine with Warrior Hawke and Rogue Hawke, the story is just slightly different.

Ditto for DA:O. Trailer Warden [and in DA2, default Warden] is obviously the Human Noble, but his playthrough in DA:O is no more 'right' than any other Origin.


The idea that the OGB will be some 'ZOMG WOW!' character is what will most likely be swept under the rug. Not the character itself.

Besides, DA3 is too soon for the OGB to be a main character

Agree with you there. But the rest of your post is so filled with vitriol I won't bother addressing it.

If the OGB isn't special in some way by virtue of having an old god soul. . .then what is the point.  The part could be played by any random person or class.

Your points about DA:O and the warden not mattering being human, yet in DA:2 we end up with a Human only character is completely overlooked; that is one time where the canon choice clearly guided the sequel, and that is a clear problem to me.  If you are going to have a clear canon choice you might as well remove the other choices.  See DA:2.