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Bioware Confirms that they will Resolve the OGB situation!


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#51
Tommy6860

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Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

You'd have to remove a lot of content (current Bioware speak for AWESOMENESS) to allow for that canonization :P.


I don't think you would.

Hell, after Darkspawn Chronicles (an Alternate Universe DLC) Bioware doesn't even have to say it's canon. They could say an OGB game is a result of choosing the ritual path, which would be true.


True (never played DC, only one I didn't buy), but I was being sarcastic, so sorry. Anyway, Witch Hunt also pretty much killed the OGB if certain choices are made into it if the DR wasn't performed (IIRC). So, unless retconning is a factor, this would be the only means and canon be damned.

#52
Brockololly

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Browneye_Vamp84 wrote...

my human mage had a romance with her in Origins and i didn't do the DR and then in WH i went into the mirror with her ... but asked about 'my baby'? ... wonder how that will turn out XD


If you sleep with Morrigan at all, she ends up with a normal non Old God child. Witch Hunt's dialogue accounts for this possibility.

#53
Browneye_Vamp84

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Brockololly wrote...

Browneye_Vamp84 wrote...

my human mage had a romance with her in Origins and i didn't do the DR and then in WH i went into the mirror with her ... but asked about 'my baby'? ... wonder how that will turn out XD


If you sleep with Morrigan at all, she ends up with a normal non Old God child. Witch Hunt's dialogue accounts for this possibility.


it was my first time not ever doing the DR and thank you

#54
Tommy6860

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Brockololly wrote...

Browneye_Vamp84 wrote...

my human mage had a romance with her in Origins and i didn't do the DR and then in WH i went into the mirror with her ... but asked about 'my baby'? ... wonder how that will turn out XD


If you sleep with Morrigan at all, she ends up with a normal non Old God child. Witch Hunt's dialogue accounts for this possibility.


T'is true, but I wonder what becomes of the child's growth is the Warden make a (certain) decision out of rage. I liked (when they fixed the damned DLC) the choices one could make in WH, especailly if the DR was part of the equation.

#55
Esbatty

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I am excited, both in a gamer fashion and sexually. This news is good news. Anyone decrying this bit o' news is a racist, because they are human. You filthy five digited ungrateful degenerates.

/Turian-Batarian hybrd-child rant

#56
AngryFrozenWater

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I don't care about the OGB - especially after its cliffhanger in DA:O never got a follow up in DA2. This major event was just dismissed. Maybe BW thought it was too complicated for their new audience? And now this? A little too late. To me they are two unrelated games with a couple of familiar faces and a cameo here and there.

#57
Tommy6860

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't care about the OGB - especially after its cliffhanger in DA:O never got a follow up in DA2. This major event was just dismissed. Maybe BW thought it was too complicated for their new audience? And now this? A little too late. To me they are two unrelated games with a couple of familiar faces and a cameo here and there.


Good point, they even expounded on it in the Witch Hunt DLC, so that makes it more of a mystery why it was excluded. But in fairness, DA2 wasn't about the Warden, Morrigan, etc, it was about  a whole new adventure, and much to my chagrin, if I may say so.

#58
AngryFrozenWater

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Tommy6860 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't care about the OGB - especially after its cliffhanger in DA:O never got a follow up in DA2. This major event was just dismissed. Maybe BW thought it was too complicated for their new audience? And now this? A little too late. To me they are two unrelated games with a couple of familiar faces and a cameo here and there.

Good point, they even expounded on it in the Witch Hunt DLC, so that makes it more of a mystery why it was excluded. But in fairness, DA2 wasn't about the Warden, Morrigan, etc, it was about  a whole new adventure, and much to my chagrin, if I may say so.

I am not convinced by the fairness, eventhough I don't mind that the Warden is gone. It's more than just that. If they planned it that way then why in Thedas have the cliffhanger in the first place? So, no, there was no planning. To resolve it right now is throwing a bone to the fans. Sorry, but I won't bark. :P

#59
Tommy6860

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't care about the OGB - especially after its cliffhanger in DA:O never got a follow up in DA2. This major event was just dismissed. Maybe BW thought it was too complicated for their new audience? And now this? A little too late. To me they are two unrelated games with a couple of familiar faces and a cameo here and there.

Good point, they even expounded on it in the Witch Hunt DLC, so that makes it more of a mystery why it was excluded. But in fairness, DA2 wasn't about the Warden, Morrigan, etc, it was about  a whole new adventure, and much to my chagrin, if I may say so.

I am not convinced by the fairness, eventhough I don't mind that the Warden is gone. It's more than just that. If they planned it that way then why in Thedas have the cliffhanger in the first place? So, no, there was no planning. To resolve it right now is throwing a bone to the fans. Sorry, but I won't bark. :P


Good point.:P.

I wasn't defending the choice (or lack of it), only that the game (DA2) was totally different in story. Maybe with DA3 there will be a melding of Warden, baby and hawke in some climactic event, well explained. But the writing better be great no matter with DA3, with much more PA than the abysmal lack of it in DA2, that I cannot tolerate again.

#60
KLUME777

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"The decision of whether to have a set character in the style of
DAII, or multiple origins a la Dragon Age: Origins will be
based on fan feedback.
"

This is the part that sparked my attention. Could this be, if we make enough noise, we may very well get our Origins back, Silent protagonist at all. Even though Mike said there will not be any more SP, its not beyond them to change thier mind based on fan feedback!

#61
KLUME777

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Yrkoon wrote...

JimmyTheProthean wrote...

http://dragonage.wik..._of_Information!

I am very worried

Don't Be.  There's nothing on that website.   Not even fan-speculation. LOL

Anyway, The Devs have repeatedly said that we'd see or hear of Morrigan again, so that's nothing new.  however, Didn't they also say that  the Dark Ritual isn't canon?


Nothing is canon, the only canon is what you the player decides.

#62
Tommy6860

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KLUME777 wrote...

"The decision of whether to have a set character in the style of
DAII, or multiple origins a la Dragon Age: Origins will be
based on fan feedback.
"

This is the part that sparked my attention. Could this be, if we make enough noise, we may very well get our Origins back, Silent protagonist at all. Even though Mike said there will not be any more SP, its not beyond them to change thier mind based on fan feedback!


Don't count on SP, though I would absolutely love that back. The devs have stated here ad nauseam that it isn't coming back. Too bad really, because using an SP makes for a much more exspansive game since it takes more time to develop talking PC cutscenes otherwise.

#63
KLUME777

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Even if I thought the DR was a idiot copout the second it was introduced.


Thats the problem with the DR as it exists in Origins- there is no reason within Origins not to do it. Sure for RP reasons you might turn it down, but the entire choice is in large part predicated on your PC's relationship and trust of Morrigan and that you would trust her with a possible OGB in the future.

Its not even so much a choice of living or dying as you can easily live without doing the DR if you want. As its presented in the game to the player, its a choice which is made out to be very important and a BIG choice with BIG consequences- that you're creating the OGB and you'd be the first Warden to be able to personally kill the AD without dying.

And yet, since it happens so close to the end, nothing ever comes of it. And since BioWare is insistent on never playing as the Warden again, the player will never be able to personally experienc any consequences of a DR Warden's actions, good or bad. At most you'll be on the outside looking in, giving BioWare an easy out for just tossing in a lame cameo or codex or line of dialogue while waving their hands and saying "Oooooooh! The OGB is a mystery now! Ooooooooh!"



The more I think about it, the more I've come to believe Bioware is just winging this entire series and barely has any idea what the series should actually be about. Posted Image


This is why i wish Dragon Age should have been an epic following one protagonist throughout the main series (or trilogy), like Mass Effect. If we have a new protagonist every game, then nothing ever gets resolved because the next game is focusing on a completely different story and the previos conflicts are forgotten. The big major decisions end up being bug-ridden cameos at best.

I remember feeling absolutely excited about DA2 when i finished Origins because i was thinking about the implications of the OGB. I thought we were going to be playing the Warden in the next game.

#64
KLUME777

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Tommy6860 wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

"The decision of whether to have a set character in the style of
DAII, or multiple origins a la Dragon Age: Origins will be
based on fan feedback.
"

This is the part that sparked my attention. Could this be, if we make enough noise, we may very well get our Origins back, Silent protagonist at all. Even though Mike said there will not be any more SP, its not beyond them to change thier mind based on fan feedback!


Don't count on SP, though I would absolutely love that back. The devs have stated here ad nauseam that it isn't coming back. Too bad really, because using an SP makes for a much more exspansive game since it takes more time to develop talking PC cutscenes otherwise.


Still at least we may get Origins back (why would they say that unless they are seriously considering it. Otherwize thier just bating the fans for major dissapointment if they know theyre not going to do it). And SP is better suited to Origins. If we make enough noise, perhaps they will consider it. I say, its well worth a try.

#65
Ryllen Laerth Kriel

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Yeah...well after DA 2 consistancy and quality in both game mechanics and story were tossed out the window for me. I'm not expecting anything to come of Morrigan's child at this point. DA 3 might as well be Dance-Dance-Revolution Age where you defeat darkspawn with motion captured dance moves.

#66
Dave of Canada

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Maybe BW thought it was too complicated for their new audience?


*facedesk* I hope you're kidding.

#67
Tommy6860

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Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Yeah...well after DA 2 consistancy and quality in both game mechanics and story were tossed out the window for me. I'm not expecting anything to come of Morrigan's child at this point. DA 3 might as well be Dance-Dance-Revolution Age where you defeat darkspawn with motion captured dance moves.


LMAO@ the DDR comment. Maybe the OGB will come back and burn down Kirkwall, make Hawke STFU and the Warden smacks Merrill back into a an adult thinking leader of the Clan.
:wizard:

#68
Icy Magebane

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If the OGB is canon, I'm going to be pissed off. It's just another sign that they don't give a damn about player input, which is basically what this series was supposed to be about. Now, I don't mind if they come up with a clever idea that is beyond my current ability to foresee, but I don't understand how an OGB can exist if somebody didn't create him using the Dark Ritual. If a Warden died, then the OGB does not exist, period. That's what they told us, and as I already said, it would ****** me off if they went back on that.

I'm guessing that Bioware's data on us revealed that a lot of people did the ritual? So therefore, they'll bring back the OGB regardless? Same as with another character that shouldn't be mentioned in a non-spoiler forum, I guess. Well look here Bioware, not everybody who plays this game uploads data, and while I'm sure there is some kind of procedure to take that into account, it just isn't fair to alter everybody's game because you're too damn lazy to follow through with imported decisions. ME doesn't have this problem, which is why it will always be the superior series.

Ahem... sorry if I sound bitter, but this pisses me off, as I've mentioned twice now. They shouldn't give us options if they are just going to negate them later. Half the fun of these games is seeing the results of your deeds later on, but I guess that isn't anything that Bioware cares about. Not the DA team anyway.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 20 août 2011 - 07:31 .


#69
Parahexavoctal

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To be honest, Flemeth, Morrigan and the OGB are very high on my list of least favorite characters and story devices, so I'm pretty much hoping nothing special will come of this.

The OGB in particular is a big can of worms sitting in a shady corner unopened right now.

For one, there's the canonization issue. What good is meaningful decisions if they will be retconned out of canon in later games? We were given the choice between OGB and US, I'd be pretty upset if it was retconned or plot railroaded to a certain conclusion.

For another, how do you deal with a character like the OGB? With a background like that, it pretty much has to be a significant character changing the world. But I'm already fed up with Deus Ex Machina characters like Flemeth stealing the big picture, the last I'd want was another of those, especially in a more active role. Unless the OGB is set up as the antagonist in a way we can actually resolve, it's just going to be one more character who the story is really about when I want it to be about the PC.

The last I'd want was to play as the OGB. Even if the gender was retconned as well, so we had an actual choice, it'd be a fixed background like Hawke again, which I really wouldn't like.

OGB as companion is right out for me as well. I very much fear it would be like playing the main character of a fanfiction with an obnoxious Mary Sue.

No, my strong preference is for the can of worms to remain in the corner unopened and forgotten. I simply see no satisfactory way to resolve it otherwise. To me, for those of my wardens that did talk Alistair into the DR (only have female wardens), Morrigan simply went through the mirror to somewhere that isn't significant to the unfolding story of DA, and if she ever comes back against my hopes, she left the OGB there.

#70
AngryFrozenWater

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KLUME777 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Even if I thought the DR was a idiot copout the second it was introduced.


Thats the problem with the DR as it exists in Origins- there is no reason within Origins not to do it. Sure for RP reasons you might turn it down, but the entire choice is in large part predicated on your PC's relationship and trust of Morrigan and that you would trust her with a possible OGB in the future.

Its not even so much a choice of living or dying as you can easily live without doing the DR if you want. As its presented in the game to the player, its a choice which is made out to be very important and a BIG choice with BIG consequences- that you're creating the OGB and you'd be the first Warden to be able to personally kill the AD without dying.

And yet, since it happens so close to the end, nothing ever comes of it. And since BioWare is insistent on never playing as the Warden again, the player will never be able to personally experienc any consequences of a DR Warden's actions, good or bad. At most you'll be on the outside looking in, giving BioWare an easy out for just tossing in a lame cameo or codex or line of dialogue while waving their hands and saying "Oooooooh! The OGB is a mystery now! Ooooooooh!"

The more I think about it, the more I've come to believe Bioware is just winging this entire series and barely has any idea what the series should actually be about. Posted Image

This is why i wish Dragon Age should have been an epic following one protagonist throughout the main series (or trilogy), like Mass Effect. If we have a new protagonist every game, then nothing ever gets resolved because the next game is focusing on a completely different story and the previos conflicts are forgotten. The big major decisions end up being bug-ridden cameos at best.

I remember feeling absolutely excited about DA2 when i finished Origins because i was thinking about the implications of the OGB. I thought we were going to be playing the Warden in the next game.

Agreed. The best news was that Hawke didn't return (because I felt Hawke never acted and was just forced in the story - no matter what choice you made), but as you mentioned that can make story continuation worse, and like Brock mentioned the player won't experience it. Although I don't mind the Warden is gone, after reading all this I kind of wish the Warden would be back, because a third PC certainly won't improve the situation. However, continuity is an issue that is a general BW problem. It's not only related to the DA franchise. It's BW's weak point.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 20 août 2011 - 07:42 .


#71
TEWR

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KLUME777 wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

"The decision of whether to have a set character in the style of
DAII, or multiple origins a la Dragon Age: Origins will be
based on fan feedback.
"

This is the part that sparked my attention. Could this be, if we make enough noise, we may very well get our Origins back, Silent protagonist at all. Even though Mike said there will not be any more SP, its not beyond them to change thier mind based on fan feedback!


Don't count on SP, though I would absolutely love that back. The devs have stated here ad nauseam that it isn't coming back. Too bad really, because using an SP makes for a much more exspansive game since it takes more time to develop talking PC cutscenes otherwise.


Still at least we may get Origins back (why would they say that unless they are seriously considering it. Otherwize thier just bating the fans for major dissapointment if they know theyre not going to do it). And SP is better suited to Origins. If we make enough noise, perhaps they will consider it. I say, its well worth a try.


why should they be restricted to just one or the other? Why can't they do both? Since the series is about Thedas as a whole, there are bound to be important people who come from a set race, because history is like that. But that doesn't mean we can't also have Origin stories. They just need to vary between games.


This is why i wish Dragon Age should have been an epic following one protagonist throughout the main series (or trilogy), like Mass Effect. If we have a new protagonist every game, then nothing ever gets resolved because the next game is focusing on a completely different story and the previos conflicts are forgotten. The big major decisions end up being bug-ridden cameos at best.

I remember feeling absolutely excited about DA2 when i finished Origins because i was thinking about the implications of the OGB. I thought we were going to be playing the Warden in the next game.



I don't think having different PCs is the problem. It's just that Bioware doesn't really have an idea of what they want to do with the series itself. At least that's the feeling I'm getting.

The OGB is a case in point. It's obviously important, and I highly believe they won't be able to use it in a way that satisfies both sides. I think they'll just end up tossing in a codex. They should've had Morrigan say that just because you refused doesn't mean she'll give up. That she has more arcane knowledge than you think. That with Flemeth's Grimoire she has even more at her disposal. That she might just be able to find a way to grab the Old God's soul even if you die, since the DR was just the quickest way for her to grab it.

That way, it's unknown if you died due to wartime injuries (explosion from the Archdemon, trauma, etc) or if it was due to sharing a spiritual apartment with an Old God's soul (I think I said that earlier in this thread). And then if they do make the OGB canon, you at least had a hint in the past that just because you said "No" doesn't mean the Old God's soul was gone. You still have your heroic death, which really was the extent of the choice, but you don't feel cheated.

...Well, some people might, but at least Bioware would be able to use the OGB with not many concerns.

And there are other things in the series. Why couldn't we have received a codex in DAO or Awakening on rising tensions in Kirkwall? Why couldn't an Amell Warden receive a letter from Hawke when they become Warden Commander of Amaranthine? Or interact with Carver at Ostagar?

I just think Bioware has this incredibly vague idea of what they want to do with the series as a whole, but are winging the series in almost every regard. There is going to be some sort of a canon, but Bioware isn't doing much to make this canon work.

What needs to be done is that Bioware needs to work on resolving some mysteries in each installment. Even if it's just one mystery solved, it's still one less to worry about.

But those types of things often lead to new questions being asked, new doors being opened.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 20 août 2011 - 07:50 .


#72
Zanallen

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Agreed. The best news was that Hawke didn't return (because I felt Hawke never acted and  was just forced in the story - no matter what choice you made), but as you mentioned that can make story continuation worse, and like Brock mentioned the player won't experience it. Although I don't mind the Warden is gone, after reading all this I kind of wish the Warden would be back, because a third PC certainly wouldn't improve the situation. However, continuity is an issue that is a general BW problem. It's not only related to the DA franchise. It's BW's weak point.


Well, Mass Effect is Bioware's first foray into a series with actual continuation, so it isn't like they have a lot of experience. BG2 ignored all of the choices made in BG1 while none of their other games up until ME received a Bioware sequel.

#73
JimmyTheProthean

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The thing that worries me for the players who romance morrigan and wanted to see their son its an insult if bioware just suddenly makes our child a sideliner or kills urthemiel off hes like a big box of candy waiting to be opend! if they can make the ogbs story good then by all means please do it.

#74
Tirfan

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@TEWR: Well, different PC:s can be a problem when resolving plotlines that another PC started - it can get really weird, I had that rather great emotional investment in the Warden/Morri/OGB-plotline.. and exploring that stuff with a new PC probably will not just have the same amount of impact as exploring that plotline as The Warden.

But yeah.. Otherwise I kind of agree.. I don't think BW really knows WTF they are doing with the franchise, in terms of storyline&general theme. Not to mention the other things.

#75
Zanallen

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JimmyTheProthean wrote...

The thing that worries me for the players who romance morrigan and wanted to see their son its an insult if bioware just suddenly makes our child a sideliner or kills urthemiel off hes like a big box of candy waiting to be opend! if they can make the ogbs story good then by all means please do it.


The easiest solution would be to just have someone kill the OGB in an effort to take its power.