346 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Giubba1985 wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'm wondering if they're changing protagonists solely because that was their plan, or if it's a combination of that and them realizing how Hawke is almost* universally hated for how he was portrayed.


*I said ALMOST.

i'm not even sure if they ever had a plan, and if they did, then it's not a very good one.

I'm not a fan of Hawke, but using him/her again would make the resolution of several loose plots easier, and hell, even The Warden, giving how he/she was setup at the end of DA2 and how he/she is envolved in OGB thing.

Changing protagonists seems like a whim at this point.

I don't see any plot lines that can be solved only from the MC who started it , damn to the spoiler free section.

MC? Forgive me, it's late, so I might just be forgetting what that means because I'm really groggy.

anyway, solve? Probably not. But be central to the plot line before disappearing? That should definitely happen.

[Giubba]

Main character my bad

Hmmm without giving any proper example is hard continue this debate but i still don't see why the presence of the character that started a certain chain of event must be present for the correct development of it.

[Satyricon331]

I'm a huge skeptic regarding DA's direction, but I don't see why people are so categorically pessimistic on this matter.  It's not inconceivable they could handle it well, imo.  Perhaps it will be like TW2 in that a large chunk of the game is completely different depending on a choice, only in this case it's the OGB/DR-vs-not choice you import (or select from the pre-made backgrounds).  Or perhaps it's a combination of that import choice and an in-game choice that decides which one of, say, 3 versions of a part of the game you play.  Or perhaps the DR decision affects the Fade in some way, and what skill trees mages can access depends partly on the choice.  Or it's multiple such things that play out over two or more games that end when, say, Sandal's prophecy comes true.  It doesn't seem like something that necessarily will turn out badly, even given resource constraints.

Or maybe I'm misreading the sentiment here and it's just disbelief that Bioware can execute it well?

[Everwarden]

Satyricon331 wrote...
  Perhaps it will be like TW2 in that a large chunk of the game is completely different depending on a choice, only in this case it's the OGB/DR-vs-not choice you import (or select from the pre-made backgrounds).  

I wouldn't hold my breath on that, mate. Bioware doesn't put that much effort into their products, not anymore.

[SirGladiator]

I really like the idea of playing as Morrigan's child in DA3, it's totally the right way to go. I don't think some folks have thought it through yet, as some of the 'potential problems' really arent problems at all. For example, the idea that somehow the child was a male, yes in WH it said son, but that's easily enough explained by saying that (should you choose your character to be female) she was simply saying that to make it harder for you to find the child, making you think it was a boy when it was really a girl. Remember, she was hiding from you until right up until the end, she didn't want to be found, so why would she be telling the truth about the child being a son? Thats an easy one to explain away.

Of course its also super easy to explain the answer to 'but what if my Warden didnt do the DR?', and that is because this was the very reason why Flemeth sent Morrigan with you, she was there just to get that soul, would she and Flemeth go to all that trouble with NO backup plan whatsoever? Of course not. There must've been one, so whatever that backup plan was, it worked. Simple enough.

For me the bottom line is that I like Morrigan, and I really like the idea of picking up her story in a big way, by playing as her child. The fact that your character would have a background somewhat similar to that of the BG2 main character's background is another point in its favor, no doubt. It just seems like the idea is totally made of win, and I certainly hope they go that route.

[Bryy_Miller]

No offense or anything, but if you're making a thread about this, chances are high that it already existed beforehand. Which it did.

[Icy Magebane]

SirGladiator wrote...

I really like the idea of playing as Morrigan's child in DA3, it's totally the right way to go. I don't think some folks have thought it through yet, as some of the 'potential problems' really arent problems at all. For example, the idea that somehow the child was a male, yes in WH it said son, but that's easily enough explained by saying that (should you choose your character to be female) she was simply saying that to make it harder for you to find the child, making you think it was a boy when it was really a girl. Remember, she was hiding from you until right up until the end, she didn't want to be found, so why would she be telling the truth about the child being a son? Thats an easy one to explain away.

Of course its also super easy to explain the answer to 'but what if my Warden didnt do the DR?', and that is because this was the very reason why Flemeth sent Morrigan with you, she was there just to get that soul, would she and Flemeth go to all that trouble with NO backup plan whatsoever? Of course not. There must've been one, so whatever that backup plan was, it worked. Simple enough.

For me the bottom line is that I like Morrigan, and I really like the idea of picking up her story in a big way, by playing as her child. The fact that your character would have a background somewhat similar to that of the BG2 main character's background is another point in its favor, no doubt. It just seems like the idea is totally made of win, and I certainly hope they go that route.

I see a LOT of retcons in this post... now, this may not be a problem for some, and that's fine, but personally, I take issue with retcons, as they invalidate the integrity of any written work.  But it's something we all have to deal with, and if they take this route in DA3, I guess I'll deal with them yet again...   I mean, technically, it's impossible for the OGB to exist if a Warden died, but I guess it's not my story, so the writers can do whatever they want, right?

[Giubba]

Icy Magebane wrote...

I see a LOT of retcons in this post... now, this may not be a problem for some, and that's fine, but personally, I take issue with retcons, as they invalidate the integrity of any written work.  But it's something we all have to deal with, and if they take this route in DA3, I guess I'll deal with them yet again...   I mean, technically, it's impossible for the OGB to exist if a Warden died, but I guess it's not my story, so the writers can do whatever they want, right?

Yeah and for the 432th law of entropic magic you can baisclly obtain the old god soul, why flemeth and morrigan didn't use it from the start ?
If you have to go from point A to point B but in the middle of the most direct path there is a maximum security prison you will bypass the prison or climb the wall,kill the guards,enter the prison, pass through the rapist zone, pass through the shower room, kill another bunch of guards and finally cimb another wall.

My point is that we don't have the whole set of notion of the laws of magic, with this in mind we haven't enough information for saying what is possible and what is not.

As i wrote i would prefer that Devs never gave the option that put us in this endless diatribe of what is possible and what's not but as we are in we should recognize that writers have enough rooms for solving this empass without contradticting themselves

[aries1001]

I doubt Bioware goes back from the dialogue wheel and the voiced protagonist. I liked both of those. And I'm strongly leaning towards preferring a set protagonist. To me, it makes a better chance to tell a story.

[JimmyTheProthean]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

No offense or anything, but if you're making a thread about this, chances are high that it already existed beforehand. Which it did.

None taken yeah im aware this is a gazillion threads based on speculation but this is news thats was confirmed agt quakecon that finally reveals that bioware are going to do something with the OGB.

[Yrkoon]

Parahexavoctal wrote...

For one, there's the canonization issue. What good is meaningful decisions if they will be retconned out of canon in later games? We were given the choice between OGB and US, I'd be pretty upset if it was retconned or plot railroaded to a certain conclusion..

Meaningful decisions become pointless, Yes.     And your example has  already happened with Origins ---> Awakening.   If you import a warden who did the US, He/she will show up in Awakening, completely alive and ready to take the mantle of Warden Commander.

And really, this is not the least bit unusual for  Bioware games.  In BG1, you can Kill off Imoen, Jahiera, Viconia, Edwin and Minsc,   And then import your character.  And then discover that each and every one of them managed to come back from the dead.  And to add  to the nonsense, you'll always get a dialogue option to the effect of:  Hey, aren't you supposed to be dead?"  to which they all basically reply with:  "eh,  forget about the past!  Lets concentrate on the Present!"

Modifié par Yrkoon, 20 août 2011 - 10:51 .

[MorrigansLove]

"Resolving" it... just means that Bioware wants to get that plot point "Over with".

[xkg]

Yrkoon wrote...

Parahexavoctal wrote...

For one, there's the canonization issue. What good is meaningful decisions if they will be retconned out of canon in later games? We were given the choice between OGB and US, I'd be pretty upset if it was retconned or plot railroaded to a certain conclusion..

Meaningful decisions become pointless, Yes.     And your example has  already happened with Origins ---> Awakening.   If you import a warden who did the US, He/she will show up in Awakening, completely alive and ready to take the mantle of Warden Commander.

And really, this is not the least bit unusual for  Bioware games.  In BG1, you can Kill off Imoen, Jahiera, Viconia, Edwin and Minsc,   And then import your character.  And then discover that each and every one of them managed to come back from the dead.  And to add  to the nonsense, you'll always get a dialogue option to the effect of:  Hey, aren't you supposed to be dead?"  to which they all basically reply with:  "eh,  forget about the past!  Lets concentrate on the Present!"

- Sister Leliana? From Lothering? But I heard you died.
- The Maker knew it was not my time. There is more for me to do in this world.

[Kail Ashton]

The things only 10 years old, i don't want another kid as a team mate, if i wanted that i'd play a JRPG

[esper]

I also want to wait for da4 before the ogb because of the age. Give the kid time to grow up, thank you.

[Aeowyn]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't care about the OGB - especially after its cliffhanger in DA:O never got a follow up in DA2. This major event was just dismissed. Maybe BW thought it was too complicated for their new audience? And now this? A little too late. To me they are two unrelated games with a couple of familiar faces and a cameo here and there.

Dismissed how exactly? Considering that Hawke wouldn't give a **** about Morrigan and her toddler when she meets Flemeth. And then by the time DA2 ends the OGB is about 7-8 years old. 

Yeah... spare us the bitterness please.

[csfteeeer]

Aeowyn wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't care about the OGB - especially after its cliffhanger in DA:O never got a follow up in DA2. This major event was just dismissed. Maybe BW thought it was too complicated for their new audience? And now this? A little too late. To me they are two unrelated games with a couple of familiar faces and a cameo here and there.

Dismissed how exactly? Considering that Hawke wouldn't give a **** about Morrigan and her toddler when she meets Flemeth. And then by the time DA2 ends the OGB is about 7-8 years old. 

Yeah... spare us the bitterness please.

And that is why I think DA2 should have never existed (story whise that is).

Because they are just prolonging this loose plot more than it ever F**king needed to.

[Giubba]

csfteeeer wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't care about the OGB - especially after its cliffhanger in DA:O never got a follow up in DA2. This major event was just dismissed. Maybe BW thought it was too complicated for their new audience? And now this? A little too late. To me they are two unrelated games with a couple of familiar faces and a cameo here and there.

Dismissed how exactly? Considering that Hawke wouldn't give a **** about Morrigan and her toddler when she meets Flemeth. And then by the time DA2 ends the OGB is about 7-8 years old. 

Yeah... spare us the bitterness please.

And that is why I think DA2 should have never existed (story whise that is).

Because they are just prolonging this loose plot more than it ever F**king needed to.

Story wise DA2 is great for me.
It develops Theadas poltical and social aspect, it lets us be witness of those crucial moment and set the stage for the next chapter.
DAO was a prologue , DA2 was the first chapter and we will see if DA3 will tie up some of the plots started in origins  or it will expand something already started like the ChantryVsMage war.

I expect a mix of those two elements

[naledgeborn]

Considering how Morrigan fans (myself included) are constantly shafted by Bio Ware I understand the air of sarcasm and cynicism in this thread. I'm with the "do it right or don't do it all crew." It's bad enough that console people didn't have access to the Morrigan Restoration Patch. Then more bugs in Witch Hunt and a lack of acknowledgement in DA2 (which is somewhat understandable). With supposed more bugged import flags for DA2. Not to mention the whole Old God Baby/Regular Baby/No Baby dilemma. I don't want a resolution as much as I want at least a third of a campaign centered around it. Brock's Expansion was the right idea. It's truly a wonder how the devs haven't thrown their arms up in frustration and said "f#%k this!". I will throw my support in if it means it all pays off in the end. I can only hope. Morrigan is just that great. Best fictional anti-heroine ever IMO.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 20 août 2011 - 12:34 .

[Gunderic]

 This thread is more negative than I expected. 

[csfteeeer]

Double Post:crying:

Modifié par csfteeeer, 20 août 2011 - 12:46 .

[csfteeeer]

Giubba1985 wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't care about the OGB - especially after its cliffhanger in DA:O never got a follow up in DA2. This major event was just dismissed. Maybe BW thought it was too complicated for their new audience? And now this? A little too late. To me they are two unrelated games with a couple of familiar faces and a cameo here and there.

Dismissed how exactly? Considering that Hawke wouldn't give a **** about Morrigan and her toddler when she meets Flemeth. And then by the time DA2 ends the OGB is about 7-8 years old. 

Yeah... spare us the bitterness please.

And that is why I think DA2 should have never existed (story wise that is).

Because they are just prolonging this loose plot more than it ever F**king needed to.

Story wise DA2 is great for me.
It develops Theadas poltical and social aspect, it lets us be witness of those crucial moment and set the stage for the next chapter.
DAO was a prologue , DA2 was the first chapter and we will see if DA3 will tie up some of the plots started in origins  or it will expand something already started like the ChantryVsMage war.

I expect a mix of those two elements

I'm not Saying DA2 didn't had a good story (i don't think it did, but that's just my opinion), what i'm saying is that they already had some loose plots (Some bigger than others) to resolve, that should have been resolved DA2, OGB being the big one, but instead, they decided to prolong it's resolution more than it needed and should have, and brought more loose plots along for the ride, apart from setting up many things that they will apperantly ignore (like Hawke and the warden apperantly doing something important, despite being, apperantly, replaced again).

All of this would have never happened if DA2 never existed, or at least, focused on resolving those loose plots, but Noooooo.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 20 août 2011 - 12:46 .

[Il Divo]

IanPolaris wrote...

I think they kill it off. I get the strong impression that Bioware has regetted the OGB almost from the moment they made it possible.

-Polaris

Agreed. When you consider the implications of such an epic moment and the fact that people can avoid the Dark Ritual, it becomes impossible to resolve adequately.

Fan # 1: "I want to find out what happened to Morrigan's god baby!"

Fan #2: "But I refused to perform the Dark Ritual. Morrigan didn't even have a god baby!".

Personally I support option 1, but Bioware did put themselves in a bind before they even started Dragon Age 2 with this alone.

[Gunderic]

Yrkoon wrote...

Parahexavoctal wrote...

For one, there's the canonization issue. What good is meaningful decisions if they will be retconned out of canon in later games? We were given the choice between OGB and US, I'd be pretty upset if it was retconned or plot railroaded to a certain conclusion..

Meaningful decisions become pointless, Yes.     And your example has  already happened with Origins ---> Awakening.   If you import a warden who did the US, He/she will show up in Awakening, completely alive and ready to take the mantle of Warden Commander.

And really, this is not the least bit unusual for  Bioware games.  In BG1, you can Kill off Imoen, Jahiera, Viconia, Edwin and Minsc,   And then import your character.  And then discover that each and every one of them managed to come back from the dead.  And to add  to the nonsense, you'll always get a dialogue option to the effect of:  Hey, aren't you supposed to be dead?"  to which they all basically reply with:  "eh,  forget about the past!  Lets concentrate on the Present!"

I could picture Leliana telling that to the Warden. 

[Giubba]

csfteeeer wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't care about the OGB - especially after its cliffhanger in DA:O never got a follow up in DA2. This major event was just dismissed. Maybe BW thought it was too complicated for their new audience? And now this? A little too late. To me they are two unrelated games with a couple of familiar faces and a cameo here and there.

Dismissed how exactly? Considering that Hawke wouldn't give a **** about Morrigan and her toddler when she meets Flemeth. And then by the time DA2 ends the OGB is about 7-8 years old. 

Yeah... spare us the bitterness please.

And that is why I think DA2 should have never existed (story wise that is).

Because they are just prolonging this loose plot more than it ever F**king needed to.

Story wise DA2 is great for me.
It develops Theadas poltical and social aspect, it lets us be witness of those crucial moment and set the stage for the next chapter.
DAO was a prologue , DA2 was the first chapter and we will see if DA3 will tie up some of the plots started in origins  or it will expand something already started like the ChantryVsMage war.

I expect a mix of those two elements

I'm not Saying DA2 didn't had a good story (i don't think it did, but that's just my opinion), what i'm saying is that they already had some loose plots (Some bigger than others) to resolve, that should have been resolved DA2, OGB being the big one, but instead, they decided to prolong it's resolution more than it needed and should have, and brought more loose plots along for the ride, apart from setting up many things that they will apperantly ignore (like Hawke and the warden apperantly doing something important, despite being, apperantly, replaced again).

All of this would have never happened if DA2 never existed, or at least, focused on resolving those loose plots, but Noooooo.

My fault for not being too clear with my answer.

What i suggest is to be of more open minded regarding the development of the story. Until now i never heard of a franchise trying to reach the goal that BW has set as their finish line.

If you want make a parallelism with a books serie DA franchise is more like Malazan book of the fallen or wheel of time , instead games like the BG were more like Belgariad .

In short do not expect that games of DA frachise will have linear development where every plot hole left open in previous game will be filled in the next chapter maybe it will take a game or two for finding out what exactly happened to a certain character or the outcome of given decision.