176 réponses à ce sujet

[CommanderWilliams]

Before buying DA2, I heard alot of bad things about it. Mainly based on around how much some environments are repetited. This did not bother me, and I defended the game up until this point. This was one of the best 30 hours of my life, and was super pysheced assuming that the choices I made mattered. Well, If I'm feeling this right, they don't.

Why does Anders need our help blowing up the chantry, if he does it anyway?
What is the point siding with either faction if both leaders die (Orsino is a ****** and Meredith is a crazy b just I thought), and the end result is the same?

I still plan on playing through the game again, but damn, why bother? Was anyone else dissapointed at this revelation?

[TEWR]

Anders is more important to the plot than Hawke is.

Bioware decided Orsino should go bat**** crazy on both sides because they wanted another boss fight. That's actually the reason they gave.

[Herr Uhl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Anders is more important to the plot than Hawke is.

Bioware decided Orsino should go bat**** crazy on both sides because they wanted another boss fight. That's actually the reason they gave.

According to anonymous.

[Urzon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Anders is more important to the plot than Hawke is.

Bioware decided Orsino should go bat**** crazy on both sides because they wanted another boss fight. That's actually the reason they gave.

I was very disappointed with how Orsino turned out, even more so on Bioware. They seem to have pulled a Blizzard move from WoW. Them turning people insane just so we could kill them for purples.

I'm crossing my fingers that pro-mages Hawke allowed Orsino to escape to lead the mages, and Hawke asked Varric to make a cover story explaining his disappearence. Since, no one really knew what happened inside the Gallows. Cullen and the templar witnessed the Meredith fight. No one saw the Orsino fight (to my knowledge).  Though, i know my hopes will be in vain.

Modifié par Urzon, 20 août 2011 - 04:24 .

[Haradmir]

Anders doesn't need our help blowing up the Chantry.

Hawke needs Anders' help to make him feel like he matters more than he does.

Edit:

I'd feel better about the Orsino blood magic move if he at least started attacking the Templars and their cronies first- not his own allies. It's possible that Orsino didn't realize he'd be completely mindless at the end of the transformation, but come on..........

Modifié par Haradmir, 20 août 2011 - 05:57 .

[DPSSOC]

CommanderWilliams wrote...
Why does Anders need our help blowing up the chantry, if he does it anyway?

So he can have an accomplice and shift any and all blame to you.  Just kidding that would require Anders to be rational and intelligent.  The simplest explanation is your help makes it easier for him, he can do it on his own but with Hawke's help it's less risky and it will take less time.

CommanderWilliams wrote...
What is the point siding with either faction if both leaders die (Orsino is a ****** and Meredith is a crazy b just I thought), and the end result is the same?

My only guess would be they're setting something up for the next game.  What that might be I have no idea unless they have us play as Hawke again.  Personally I'd prefer they'd let me bring my Warden back or have a new PC but if I have to play Hawke again please Bioware make him less of a tool.  Best hope is that who you side with has some relevance in a DLC or expansion.

[Icy Magebane]

It's fine if Anders did his thing without Hawke's help... the only part that bothers me is how different Orsino's mindset is depending on which side you choose in the end. If you choose Templars, he's a cackling madman who taunts you over your mother's murder. If you choose Magi, he doesn't even mention the part he played in that little scheme and acts like this is his first dabbling in blood magic. Very strange.

[Dave of Canada]

Icy Magebane wrote...

If you choose Magi, he doesn't even mention the part he played in that little scheme and acts like this is his first dabbling in blood magic. Very strange.

He mentions Quentin if you side with the mages.

[Time4Tiddy]

Yeah, when you side with the mages he says he's putting Quentin's research into action right before he transforms. Basically it's meant to imply that Orsino is a shady, nearly evil character for the whole game and if you sided with the mages you basically got suckered.

I really wish they had done a better job of actually having a few stand-up mages in the game. With the exception of Bethany, and Merrill, every other mage in the game is either a budding blood mage/psychopath (I include Anders in this) or a frightened spineless wimp, and sometimes both.

[Haradmir]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

If you choose Magi, he doesn't even mention the part he played in that little scheme and acts like this is his first dabbling in blood magic. Very strange.

He mentions Quentin if you side with the mages.

You're meant to realize his involvement with Quentin and his research on your own if you side with the mages.

That note you find during All That Remains that congratulates Quentin on his research, and supports it, is signed "O."  So if you remember that after you hear Orsino mention the research right before he goes blood-magic-happy...you'll know.

[Icy Magebane]

My point is that Orsino's personality is different depending on who you side with. Now, he could just be a two-faced bastard, but I think something's weird there.

[Gervaise]

The mages ending doesn't make sense as it stands. Now if Orsino had admitted his involvement in mother's death, you attack him and then he transforms - that would at least have some logic to it. The only way I can reconcile it currently is that Orsino doesn't want the sort of freedom that Anders has forced on him, he can't face the idea of a future of constant fighting, he is genuinely appalled by all the death on both sides and his brain implodes. I don't think it is just a cover story by Varric because it would be pretty easy to disprove - either there is a hideous lump of meat in the inner Gallows or there isn't.

[TEWR]

I just like to rationalize it as Varric embellishing. A Pride Demon tore through the Veil (literally tore it apart, slowly. And for kicks said "Here's Johnny!") and possessed some redshirt mage (dead or alive. doesn't matter. They'll be dead in a minute).

Since the Harvester ritual is blood magic, the demon would know it and then decided to perform it to become even stronger. And Orsino, Hawke, and friends defeated this scourge. Then, they all fought against Meredith and traveled to Ferelden's Circle to tell them of what happened.

That's what should've been done. Have Cassandra call bull**** on Orsino going insane for no reason for pro-mage Hawkes.


Hell, they showed like 40 Harvester things at the end of GoA. Why not just have one appear magically in the Gallows? Wouldn't make sense how it got there, but at least it's an easy way to have the boss fight they wanted.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 20 août 2011 - 08:39 .

[Anyroad2]

Random Harvester would have made more sense than Anti-Blood Mage Orsino, going Blood Mage and killing his allies/fellow mages out of nowhere. >_>

[Xilizhra]

Icy Magebane wrote...

It's fine if Anders did his thing without Hawke's help... the only part that bothers me is how different Orsino's mindset is depending on which side you choose in the end. If you choose Templars, he's a cackling madman who taunts you over your mother's murder. If you choose Magi, he doesn't even mention the part he played in that little scheme and acts like this is his first dabbling in blood magic. Very strange.

So, did you totally miss his line in the templar ending: "The irony is, until this very moment, I have never used blood magic!"

And I'm not blaming him for what he says about Leandra. Rather hard to when he's saying it to a participant in genocide.

[Icy Magebane]

Xilizhra wrote...


So, did you totally miss his line in the templar ending: "The irony is, until this very moment, I have never used blood magic!"

And I'm not blaming him for what he says about Leandra. Rather hard to when he's saying it to a participant in genocide.

He never used blood magic and was somehow capable of creating a Harvester... ok.

As for your comments about genocide, I refuse to argue that.  It's gotten old and I don't wish to engage anyone regarding that particular topic.  You have your views, I have mine, and that's as far as I'm willing to go.

[Xilizhra]

One of the hallmarks of blood magic is that it's easy to use. It's one of the things that makes it so feared; even a weakling like Jowan can blow away three templars and the First Enchanter with it.

[Icy Magebane]

Xilizhra wrote...

One of the hallmarks of blood magic is that it's easy to use. It's one of the things that makes it so feared; even a weakling like Jowan can blow away three templars and the First Enchanter with it.

If it were that easy, then I don't see how mages became oppressed.  They should all use blood magic if it's pretty much effortless, and then they wouldn't have to worry about Templars or Circles.  No... Orsino studied it, and his note confirmed as much.  He stated that the research Quentin was undertaking was interesting to him, so don't tell me he's just some innocent victim.

As far as the topic goes, it just seems that he has a different personality based on which side you choose... you know about his involvement from the note, but his personality changes depending on your alligence.  Just an observation.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 20 août 2011 - 09:41 .

[Xilizhra]

Oh, he studied it. He just didn't use it. I mean, it's not like "turn yourself into a Harvester" is something that you can practice until you get it right.

[Icy Magebane]

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, he studied it. He just didn't use it. I mean, it's not like "turn yourself into a Harvester" is something that you can practice until you get it right.

That's probably true, but all the evidence suggest that Orsino was a blood mage.  You'd need some kind of background and familiarity with that type of magic to cast the spell in the first place, regardless of your ability to practice it.

[Dave of Canada]

Initial Blood Magic seems easy to do, though I doubt somebody who's highfived a demon to learn it is capable of turning into the Harvester. There's studies that exists with rituals and knowledge of blood magic, I doubt the newbie blood mage like Jowan could turn into the Harvester / be immortal / summon demons under his command / raise the dead / mind control people / ect.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 20 août 2011 - 09:44 .

[Xilizhra]

That's probably true, but all the evidence suggest that Orsino was a blood mage. You'd need some kind of background and familiarity with that type of magic to cast the spell in the first place, regardless of your ability to practice it.

And you base this on what exactly? Also, since Orsino is already spontaneously bringing up his connection to Quentin, why would he lie about blood magic?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 20 août 2011 - 09:44 .

[Icy Magebane]

Xilizhra wrote...

That's probably true, but all the evidence suggest that Orsino was a blood mage. You'd need some kind of background and familiarity with that type of magic to cast the spell in the first place, regardless of your ability to practice it.

And you base this on what exactly? Also, since Orsino is already spontaneously bringing up his connection to Quentin, why would he lie about blood magic?

I'll make this really simple:  Orsino conspired with a necromancer who murdered and dismembered women in an attempt to rebuild his dead wife.  He knew how to cast a spell that was obviously beyond the realm of any known sorcery, and you don't gain that kind of wisdom from an afternoon's rest.  If you don't want to believe it, I can't make you, but Orsino's prior knowledge of blood magic is fairly obvious.  If he weren't a blood mage, then why did he allow a psychopath to murder women and use blood magic to reainmate them into an abomination?  You'd think a normal mage would take offense to that kind of behavior... maybe, report him?

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 20 août 2011 - 09:53 .

[Xilizhra]

Orsino already explained why reporting him wasn't an option; it'd have been an excuse for Meredith to crack down even harder on the Circle, and anything could have pushed her into Annulment, thus resulting in the deaths of hundreds.

[Icy Magebane]

lol... alright, fair enough. I give up.