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[esper]

Grace has a hostage... You could say that Hawke didn't wanted to endager the person.At least that is why my Hawke doesn't act.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, if you're curious about how I explain this...
Petrice: Qunari are a potential threat, and she also doesn't kill except in self-defense, generally.
Cullen: My Hawke's a mage, so no issue there.
Meredith: See my mage timeskip thread for my explanation. The short version is that a mage Hawke couldn't act too openly without jeopardizing her position and benefiting no one.
Grace: I'll give you that one, and I need to think more about it.

The Qunari are a threat, and so is Petrice. Hawke should be able to kill her and her templar. In fact, Hawke can tell Justice in "Dissent" that every last templar should die.

My Hawke is a mage as well, but that's because my rogue Hawke was so absurd in doing nothing about Bethany that the lack of an apostate POV no longer bothered me as much as Hawke's refusal to do something for his little sister, especially given what he knows about the Kirkwall Circle following the mandatory quest "Tranquility."

Meredith could be dealt with if Hawke was gathering allies and leading an underground resistance; it didn't need to be overt. Instead, Hawke does nothing - as usual.

[TEWR]

atheelogos wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Anders is more important to the plot than Hawke is.

Bioware decided Orsino should go bat**** crazy on both sides because they wanted another boss fight. That's actually the reason they gave.

REALLY. I mean I knew that was the reason but I'm surpised they'd admit to it. Do you have a link to that thread?

Well, it's not on a thread. It's some blog by a person who asked David Gaider a bunch of questions. People are free to choose not to believe it, but really... the stuff on there isn't quite something you can make up as a lie and expect people to believe it. And some of it is what I'd expect the devs to say.

And if it wasn't true about Orsino, I would think the devs would've corrected the numerous people who are saying it, because it's been said for months now. Everyone had their suspicions that was the reason.

http://atraeathing.t...rs-you-got-from

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 août 2011 - 03:15 .

[esper]

The problem I have a hard times explaining with my Hawke is:
Grace... As said I can come up with a reason, but I wish that the scene had been better.
Sebastian walking away... That is just a problem with the way I see my canon Hawke in act three. I don't think that she would have taken well to threats like that.
Orsino... Orsino is inexplainable. They should have made the scene so much better. More templars, feeling the danger he speaks of - or better yet. They should not have made the scene.

[TEWR]

esper wrote...

The problem I have a hard times explaining with my Hawke is:
Grace... As said I can come up with a reason, but I wish that the scene had been better.
Sebastian walking away... That is just a problem with the way I see my canon Hawke in act three. I don't think that she would have taken well to threats like that.
Orsino... Orsino is inexplainable. They should have made the scene so much better. More templars, feeling the danger he speaks of - or better yet. They should not have made the scene.

yup.


What should've happened is Orsino fights you on pro-templar playthroughs, but Meredith doesn't. Then Varric concludes the game by saying that one day the Templars went into Meredith's office and found her as a statue, withered away (much like in the endgame boss fight).

Pro-Mage people would fight Meredith and Orsino would escape to Ferelden's Circle to tell them of what happened.

[Xilizhra]

The Qunari are a threat, and so is Petrice. Hawke should be able to kill her and her templar. In fact, Hawke can tell Justice in "Dissent" that every last templar should die.

Hawke was just a circumstantial pawn; I'd doubt they'd come after her.

Meredith could be dealt with if Hawke was gathering allies and leading an underground resistance; it didn't need to be overt. Instead, Hawke does nothing - as usual.

I disagree. Hawke's too much of a public figure to get heavily involved with the mage underground.

[TEWR]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Qunari are a threat, and so is Petrice. Hawke should be able to kill her and her templar. In fact, Hawke can tell Justice in "Dissent" that every last templar should die.

Hawke was just a circumstantial pawn; I'd doubt they'd come after her.

Meredith could be dealt with if Hawke was gathering allies and leading an underground resistance; it didn't need to be overt. Instead, Hawke does nothing - as usual.

I disagree. Hawke's too much of a public figure to get heavily involved with the mage underground.

The public is already heavily involved with the mages. Cullen said as much.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Qunari are a threat, and so is Petrice. Hawke should be able to kill her and her templar. In fact, Hawke can tell Justice in "Dissent" that every last templar should die.

Hawke was just a circumstantial pawn; I'd doubt they'd come after her.

Petrice makes it clear that Hawke dying was part of the plan, which makes Hawke absurdly incompetent for letting her walk away, as well as responsible for every single death that transpires because he did absolutely nothing about her when he had the chance to do Kirkwall a favor and let the Murder Knife do its work.

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Meredith could be dealt with if Hawke was gathering allies and leading an underground resistance; it didn't need to be overt. Instead, Hawke does nothing - as usual.

I disagree. Hawke's too much of a public figure to get heavily involved with the mage underground.

Hawke's too much of a public figure to get involved in a clandestine effort against Meredith? I can't say I agree with that.

[TobiTobsen]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Meredith could be dealt with if Hawke was gathering allies and leading an underground resistance; it didn't need to be overt. Instead, Hawke does nothing - as usual.

I disagree. Hawke's too much of a public figure to get heavily involved with the mage underground.

Hawke's too much of a public figure to get involved in a clandestine effort against Meredith? I can't say I agree with that.

Especially after we see (as long as we support the mages at the beginning of act 3) that other nobles are already plotting against Meredith. Being a public figure isn't realy an excuse for doing nothing.

[Xilizhra]

Especially after we see (as long as we support the mages at the beginning of act 3) that other nobles are already plotting against Meredith. Being a public figure isn't realy an excuse for doing nothing.

They're just starting to plot now, after three years of being kicked around. I don't mean that Hawke would be taken down by the templars, though I think they're watching her very closely indeed; there are all sorts of security risks from other nobles and ordinary people still not ready to move against Meredith.

[GavrielKay]

Thing is, Dragon Age is a video game. And most people don't play it to feel just as helpless and pragmatic as they are in real life. I want my Hawke to be larger than life, to take on incredible odds and defeat the bad guys. Like my Warden did, uniting various factions and facing down the evil horde.

It's one thing to have all these practical reasons why Hawke shouldn't act like a hero, it's another to think it makes for fun game play.

I wanted to play a Champion who would fight and if necessary die for a good cause. But most of the time, all I could do was be pragmatic or in a coma for 3 years at a time.

[Xilizhra]

It's one thing to have all these practical reasons why Hawke shouldn't act like a hero, it's another to think it makes for fun game play.

That's down to personal taste. All I was saying is that Hawke isn't necessarily incompetent/lazy.

[Rifneno]

HSHAW wrote...

Anders became the dev mouthpiece. Just like the King's Confidant (was he ever given a name? I can't find/remember one) in RtO. They didn't like that their "gray area" wasn't quite as gray as they thought so they 'clarified' things for us in DLC.

what do you mean by this?

I mean that when they write a supposedly gray choice and players landslide toward one choice they try to further justify the other side in a DLC. In DAO, people weren't buying Loghain's bull****. From killing the king to selling his own citizens into slavery, the guy was just a bastard. In DAO it was, "why would he abandon the king and his men?!" Flemeth makes some remark about his heart being darker than the frickin' darkspawn. In RtO all of a sudden Cailan's army had no chance of victory *and he knew it*! Cailan wasn't just a naive tool with an unhealthy love of Gray Warden stories, now he was knowingly leading his men to an elaborate mass suicide. Why? Who knows? I guess he thought it'd be more fun than drinking himself to death or something. Oh, and he was planning to sell out Ferelden by dumping Anora because her babymaker has a loose wire and marrying Empress Celene of Orlais. I suspect Anora's problem was that no human child could survive the subzero temperature of her frigid tomb--er, womb.

They did it again with Legacy. People think the Chantry is a bunch of fascist pigs. Maybe it's because of the concentration camps, I don't know, I'm not social sciences expert. What I do know is that they took Anders, a devout Andrastian, and had him blow his top when Corypheus is revealed to be a magister. "Hawke: That doesn't justify punishing mages a thousand years later." "Anders: Doesn't it? What else might they be right about? I need to think..." Yes, Anders, you do. Because that line contained less intelligence than an episode of Beavis and Butthead. I guess since I'm a white male I should be punished for Vlad the Impaler's douchebaggery. The fact that they gave this bane of common sense to the guy always screaming "mage freedom!" is only compounded by the fact he's a follower of Andraste and the Maker, just not the Chantry. I'm pretty sure at one point he even implied or flat out said he believes the Golden City/Darkspawn story but that the Chantry is only using it justify their own crimes. Either way, the whole thing reeked of another RtO affair where we're being told "no, look at it from their side! it's not so bad, really!"

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm slightly irked that you are, by extension, calling me absurdly incompetent for not noticing it immediately.

I don't think so. People playing a video game aren't as absorbed into it as the character who's really there and experiencing it. And for anyone who did notice him picking up Corypheus' weird Yodaspeak thing, it's pretty frustrating that our characters can't. My Hawke should be more observant than me. It's not hard, I even believed Anders about the potion.

[Xilizhra]

I'm pretty sure at one point he even implied or flat out said he believes the Golden City/Darkspawn story but that the Chantry is only using it justify their own crimes. Either way, the whole thing reeked of another RtO affair where we're being told "no, look at it from their side! it's not so bad, really!"

He brings up the story when you give him the Tevinter Chantry Amulet, then says he thinks it has more to do with being a magister than being a mage. But oh well, I suppose I don't have to take him along with me.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm pretty sure at one point he even implied or flat out said he believes the Golden City/Darkspawn story but that the Chantry is only using it justify their own crimes. Either way, the whole thing reeked of another RtO affair where we're being told "no, look at it from their side! it's not so bad, really!"

He brings up the story when you give him the Tevinter Chantry Amulet, then says he thinks it has more to do with being a magister than being a mage. But oh well, I suppose I don't have to take him along with me.

He's actually good to have for most of the DLC.  Anders, Varric, and Hawke's sibling are the best ones to take along.  The others have some funny dialogue usually but those ones all have a personal part in the story.  Anders because he's a warden, sibling because they're a warden and/or the goons are trying to get at them too, and Varric because... well, it's a fun surprise.  It's just that one bit of dialogue with Anders at the end that sends me into an F-5 tornado of nerdrage.

[Xilizhra]

I like bringing Merrill, though. I like the way she says "Fascinating!" over the Dumat altar, even though she doesn't have many other lines, and I like some of the romance banter. Then again, I like everything with Merrill in it.

[GavrielKay]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's one thing to have all these practical reasons why Hawke shouldn't act like a hero, it's another to think it makes for fun game play.

That's down to personal taste. All I was saying is that Hawke isn't necessarily incompetent/lazy.

My problem is more with the designers of the game.  You can make up whatever excuses you want about why Hawke must behave in such a way and why it serves the goal of the storytellers.  As far as selling a game that is fun to play and allows the player to get outside their own mundane existance and have a blast...  well, I think DAO did that far far better than DA2.  I was disappointed at all the places where it was too obvious that Hawke had boarded the plot railroad and was going for a ride whether I as the player saw through the ruse or not.

[Xilizhra]

Mileage varies; I never felt like I was having a blast in Origins at all. The whole game felt grindy and irritating and unpolished and way too much like work. At least compared to DA2.

[LobselVith8]

GavrielKay wrote...

My problem is more with the designers of the game.  You can make up whatever excuses you want about why Hawke must behave in such a way and why it serves the goal of the storytellers.  As far as selling a game that is fun to play and allows the player to get outside their own mundane existance and have a blast...  well, I think DAO did that far far better than DA2.  I was disappointed at all the places where it was too obvious that Hawke had boarded the plot railroad and was going for a ride whether I as the player saw through the ruse or not.

That's my problem with Dragon Age 2, including Legacy: too much of the plot railroad. I don't find Dragon Age 2 fun, and I was disappointed in Legacy (and Anders' endgame dialogue was ridiculously idiotic).

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

I like bringing Merrill, though. I like the way she says "Fascinating!" over the Dumat altar, even though she doesn't have many other lines, and I like some of the romance banter. Then again, I like everything with Merrill in it.

I never got the appeal of Merrill... maybe because I can't get into her romance.  I feel like a craddle robber at best (pedophile at worst) when I try.

Mileage varies; I never felt like I was having a blast in Origins at all. The whole game felt grindy and irritating and unpolished and way too much like work. At least compared to DA2.

Grindy...  damn, now I miss Everquest.  And I can't believe I just said that.  

[Xilizhra]

I never got the appeal of Merrill... maybe because I can't get into her romance. I feel like a craddle robber at best (pedophile at worst) when I try.

What exactly is a "cradle robber" anyway?
Also, it's true, she looks exactly the same for seven years, but if she's 17ish when you first meet her, you don't sleep with her until she's 20. That doesn't sound too bad.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

I never got the appeal of Merrill... maybe because I can't get into her romance. I feel like a craddle robber at best (pedophile at worst) when I try.

What exactly is a "cradle robber" anyway?
Also, it's true, she looks exactly the same for seven years, but if she's 17ish when you first meet her, you don't sleep with her until she's 20. That doesn't sound too bad.

Merrill is around the same age as the Dalish Warden, which means she's likely older than Hawke.

[Xilizhra]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I never got the appeal of Merrill... maybe because I can't get into her romance. I feel like a craddle robber at best (pedophile at worst) when I try.

What exactly is a "cradle robber" anyway?
Also, it's true, she looks exactly the same for seven years, but if she's 17ish when you first meet her, you don't sleep with her until she's 20. That doesn't sound too bad.

Merrill is around the same age as the Dalish Warden, which means she's likely older than Hawke.

Well, she did look older before the elf redesign, that's true. Hmmm... it's too bad the only people whose ages we actually know are Bethany's and Carver's.

[GavrielKay]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Merrill is around the same age as the Dalish Warden, which means she's likely older than Hawke.

Yeah, but appearance and emotional maturity count too.  I never liked Merrill as either a companion or a LI.  Oh well.

[LobselVith8]

GavrielKay wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Merrill is around the same age as the Dalish Warden, which means she's likely older than Hawke.

Yeah, but appearance and emotional maturity count too.  I never liked Merrill as either a companion or a LI.  Oh well.

If we're counting emotional maturity, she's still older than Hawke. Trying to save your people > Sitting on your ****.