40 réponses à ce sujet

[Exicuren]

Well, I was playing DA:O a month ago because I meant to create a mage warden playthrough for DA2 to change somethings to DA2, when I was playing in the alienage after all the plague thing, I chose the "something wicked quest.

When I was at the end of the quest, when the demon appears, for the first time I actually listened to what the demon said and I found it interesting, it said: "The maker? There is no maker. There is no Golden City. But there are demons, yesss..."
What I found interesting is that the demon never denies the existence of Andraste as a divine entity.

So, when I played Legacy in DA2, corypheus says something similar: "The light. We sought the golden light. You offered... the power of the gods themselves." " But it was.. black... corrupt. Darkness... ever since. How long?"

After I heard this I put some common sence and reached the conclusion that if the dempn and corypheus are right about the Golden city never been black, then the maker doesn't exists aswell, so the truly divine entity is Andraste and not the so called maker

You can check the dialogs in these videos:

youtu.be/Y81Fz7WvFeU
and
youtu.be/TgQWBzPAewU at 5:40

[Anyroad2]

Its probable that the demon in "Something Wicked" was taunting Otto. We've no evidence that Demons are incapable of lying. And even if you take the demons words as truth, then its still possible that the Maker did exist at one point and that there was a Golden City.

As for Cory, theres no way that any of the 5 (going off of videos) invading Magisters could have known that the Black City was always Black. It was tainted when they arrived, maybe instantly. Besides, they don't have any idea of what the City was like before they arrived. They only had the belief.

[Urzon]

I think the Maker is a human concept. If he really existed or not remains to be seen, but spirits and demons care very little about what humans believe in, unless the demons can use it to meet their needs.

[Haradmir]

Cory never says that he and the magisters were promised any city, just a "golden light." The Golden City may have existed in the past, or not at all, and they were simply led on and tricked into believing that what they saw in the Fade was the original Golden City, not just an illusion that was revealed for what it was when they finally stepped foot in it.

[Icy Magebane]

I wouldn't believe anything a demon has to say. Not that I believe in the Maker per say, but demons cannot be trusted, it's that simple.

I don't know anything about this Corypheus fellow, but I assume you're right about the Maker... regardless, I'm looking forward to the day when we find out exactly what happened back in Andraste's time... if they tell us.

[Haradmir]

Icy Magebane wrote...

I wouldn't believe anything a demon has to say. Not that I believe in the Maker per say, but demons cannot be trusted, it's that simple.

I don't know anything about this Corypheus fellow, but I assume you're right about the Maker... regardless, I'm looking forward to the day when we find out exactly what happened back in Andraste's time... if they tell us.

I don't want them to tell us anything for a long, long time. Speculating and arguing over it is too much fun. 

[Icy Magebane]

Haradmir wrote...
I don't want them to tell us anything for a long, long time. Speculating and arguing over it is too much fun. 

I agree.  I'm not even sure that I want to know the truth.  But they probably will reveal some details... just a hunch.  I mean, I see this series lasting at least 3-4 more games.  They've got to be about something, right?

[Dave of Canada]

Hell, Justice himself says he has no idea about the Maker and whatever. Demons are guessing as much as mortals.

[Zanallen]

Haradmir wrote...

I don't want them to tell us anything for a long, long time. Speculating and arguing over it is too much fun. 

Realistically, there will only be one, maybe two more games in this series so they had better not wait too long or else we will never know.

As for the question, there is more than likely a Maker, but the question is what form will he take?

[esper]

I don't want to know if the Maker exits that would take a lot of charm out of the game, I like that the religion is religion.
That being said, I personally hope that he doesn't exits, because he isn't exactly the most benevoulent god I have met.
About Spirits and demons, Justice says in Awakening that some of the spirits believe in the Maker because of the human dreams, while the demons just don't care.

[Gervaise]

The Maker represents the ultimate source of everything and also stands for immortality. It is a spirit that gave rise to the other spirits. According to Andraste this spirit represents all that is positive and good about human emotions but is repelled by all that is negative. The Magisters were seeking to usurpe the gods, in other words to become immortal and all powerful. Dumat suggested they would get the power they sought in the Fade. from the golden light, the Maker, but the moment they entered the Fade, the Maker would instantly be repelled by their negative emotions, leaving a black void to be filled by their own negativity and since this was the Fade, it corrupted them permanently. Andraste's heart was essentially pure, she really only did what she did to free people from slavery, not just to the Tevinter but also their own worst nature. If all the world accepted the true concepts of the Chant of Light, the Maker would once again interact with them direct. Looking around Thedas, not even those who claim to follow Andraste, really do, so it is hardly surprising that the Maker is silent.

[Haradmir]

Zanallen wrote...

Haradmir wrote...

I don't want them to tell us anything for a long, long time. Speculating and arguing over it is too much fun. 

Realistically, there will only be one, maybe two more games in this series so they had better not wait too long or else we will never know.

As for the question, there is more than likely a Maker, but the question is what form will he take?

Maybe the devs themselves don't even know, or have a unified opinion of wether or not the Maker should/does exist.

Why do you say there is more than likely a Maker?

[Zanallen]

Haradmir wrote...

Maybe the devs themselves don't even know, or have a unified opinion of wether or not the Maker should/does exist.

Why do you say there is more than likely a Maker?

Because there is a Black City. It exists within the Fade. Something has to have lived there. Now, as I said, the question is what is the Maker? Is he what the Andrastians believe him to be?

[Time4Tiddy]

Zanallen wrote...

Haradmir wrote...

Maybe the devs themselves don't even know, or have a unified opinion of wether or not the Maker should/does exist.

Why do you say there is more than likely a Maker?

Because there is a Black City. It exists within the Fade. Something has to have lived there. Now, as I said, the question is what is the Maker? Is he what the Andrastians believe him to be?

The Fade is a representation of human dreams.  Humans believe in the Black City.  Therefore, a Black City exists in the Fade.  But did the Black City exist there before humans came to believe in such an idea...

[Anyroad2]

Zanallen wrote...

Realistically, there will only be one, maybe two more games in this series so they had better not wait too long or else we will never know.

Huh?

I dont know where you got this idea from, but I certainly havent heard anything about Dragon Age only having 3-4 major installments.

The only reason I see them stopping is if the game proves to not be profitable anymore, or when they reach the end of the actual Dragon Age, which could go on hundreds of years.

Modifié par Anyroad2, 20 août 2011 - 07:57 .

[Gervaise]

Actually Thedas timewise the Dragon Age will last exactly 100 years, like any other age. If we get to the end of the century, then it will become post Dragon Age - a game with a new Title.

[Zanallen]

Anyroad2 wrote...

Huh?

I dont know where you got this idea from, but I certainly havent heard anything about Dragon Age only having 3-4 major installments.

The only reason I see them stopping is if the game proves to not be profitable anymore, or when they reach the end of the actual Dragon Age, which could go on hundreds of years.

Bioware has never made a franchise with more than two games in it. ME3 will be the first. They aren't really known for long franchises. Plus, DA2 already took a large hit to total sales. The game was still quite profitable, but the total number of people who bought it is far lower than it was for the first game. It is yet to be seen if DA3 can bring those customers back. Plus, there is the issue with TOR. EA has placed a lot of money into Bioware's upcoming MMO. If it doesn't do well, Bioware is bound to take a major blow.

[Anyroad2]

Gervaise wrote...

Actually Thedas timewise the Dragon Age will last exactly 100 years, like any other age. If we get to the end of the century, then it will become post Dragon Age - a game with a new Title.

Oh, thats right.

Looked at the Calendar and got confused. I was looking at the Imperial numbers. XD

So anyway!
 
Varric is interrogated in 9:40 Dragon. Which means we have at least 60 more years to go. Thats not including the time we might spend playing a story that takes place simultaneously with the others.

Modifié par Anyroad2, 20 août 2011 - 08:17 .

[Anyroad2]

Zanallen wrote...

Bioware has never made a franchise with more than two games in it. ME3 will be the first. They aren't really known for long franchises. Plus, DA2 already took a large hit to total sales. The game was still quite profitable, but the total number of people who bought it is far lower than it was for the first game. It is yet to be seen if DA3 can bring those customers back. Plus, there is the issue with TOR. EA has placed a lot of money into Bioware's upcoming MMO. If it doesn't do well, Bioware is bound to take a major blow.

Never as of yet. That doesnt mean that they wont.

Also, if SWTOR does flop (which I dont think it will) what do you think Bioware will do to make up for the losses? A new franchise or one that they know poeple will buy?

I really liked DA2 and thought that it was a step foward in pretty much every way (except for a few select things) from DAO. I, unlike a lot of people, didnt expect it to be DAO2. I played it at Comic Con 2010. I knew what the game was going to play like. Legacy did a lot to fix many of the issues people seemed to have with the game too. Theyre getting better.

[Zanallen]

Anyroad2 wrote...

Never as of yet. That doesnt mean that they wont.

Also, if SWTOR does flop (which I dont think it will) what do you think Bioware will do to make up for the losses? A new franchise or one that they know poeple will buy?

I really liked DA2 and thought that it was a step foward in pretty much every way (except for a few select things) from DAO. I, unlike a lot of people, didnt expect it to be DAO2. I played it at Comic Con 2010. I knew what the game was going to play like. Legacy did a lot to fix many of the issues people seemed to have with the game too. Theyre getting better.

Will the DA franchise continue to sell? I liked DA2 as well and I have no doubt it was profitable, but that doesn't change the fact that it hasn't sold terribly well so far. But really, the proof will be in DA3. If it sells well, I could see the franchise continuing. If it doesn't...Well, then we won't be seeing a DA4.

[Anyroad2]

Zanallen wrote...

Anyroad2 wrote...

Never as of yet. That doesnt mean that they wont.

Also, if SWTOR does flop (which I dont think it will) what do you think Bioware will do to make up for the losses? A new franchise or one that they know poeple will buy?

I really liked DA2 and thought that it was a step foward in pretty much every way (except for a few select things) from DAO. I, unlike a lot of people, didnt expect it to be DAO2. I played it at Comic Con 2010. I knew what the game was going to play like. Legacy did a lot to fix many of the issues people seemed to have with the game too. Theyre getting better.

Will the DA franchise continue to sell? I liked DA2 as well and I have no doubt it was profitable, but that doesn't change the fact that it hasn't sold terribly well so far. But really, the proof will be in DA3. If it sells well, I could see the franchise continuing. If it doesn't...Well, then we won't be seeing a DA4.

Yeah. Those are my thoughts too.

I have faith that EA/Bioware have learned their lessons about cutting corners and that theyll make DA3 an amazing RPG.

I however, will probably always buy DA games as long as they make them. ><

[whykikyouwhy]

My thoughts (not that any of you asked, but...): The Maker is a construct. It's a name given to the amalgalm of old gods/creators/pantheons of yore so that there would be one religion based on a single god entity - something that could sway the people of Thedas in uniformity.

On a symbolic (or maybe literal) level, the Maker is a piñata. When Sandal's prophecy comes true, something is going to take a bat to the piñata and all sorts of old(er) god candies will come pouring out.

/conspiracy theory

[whykikyouwhy]

Actually, that makes sense. You separate one from the whole, and you weaken the whole. Or, you knock off one leg of the piñata early and you lose some of the big climactic impact when the candy-stuffed middle section is cracked open.